of COURSE they were more than just a social club at one point. they were a GUILD. They were basically an extremely united workers' union that spanned most of the western world. OBVIOUSLY almost anything important that was made out of stone between the American Revolution and the Civil War will have masonic symbols on it. Obviously they have symbols with complex double meanings and metaphor. Even the international thespian society (an organization for high school actors) has a seal with certain geometric patterns and symbolic elements. A guild from that time period which was that large would surely have much more in the way of archaic seeming symbols and coats of arms and the like. Naturally, they would put these symbols on things which they built. The masonic symbols on the statue of liberty mean little more than the artist's signature on a famous painting.

Naturally the masons would once have had an impressive amount of political influence. They were a workers' union before such things were common. They were influential all over Europe and America in raising the wages and job conditions of stone masons. If anyone thinks they didn't use this same power to get other things they wanted, then that person is a fool. This doesn't mean they STILL hold any real kind of political power. Freemasonry has become little more than boy scouts for grown ups... something to put on your job application when you want to become a senator. It's a social club. Depending on where you live, it's either a simple men's club or it's a place where the affluent men in town (like doctors, lawyers, the mayor, etc) go to hang out together. No nation-wide conspiracy, no illuminati. The illuminati have been extinct for over a century.

Am i wrong here?
Is Freemasonry really something to worry about? if so, please tell me in detail.

[edit on 8-10-2004 by The Quotient]

Originally posted by The Quotient
of COURSE they

< snip >

Freemasonry has become little more than boy scouts for grown ups... something to put on your job application when you want to become a senator. It's a social club. Depending on where you live, it's either a simple men's club or it's a place where the affluent men in town (like doctors, lawyers, the mayor, etc) go to hang out together. No nation-wide conspiracy, no illuminati. The illuminati have been extinct for over a century.

Am i wrong here?

About Masonry being simply a social club? Yes. Freemasonry is so much MORE than a social club. It is a place for good men to become better men through service, to the brothers and to society, more reverent toward your g-d, and more respectful of others in general, their opinions, wants, needs, feelings.

Is Freemasonry really something to worry about? if so, please tell me in detail.

No.

It's a social club. Depending on where you live, it's either a simple men's club or it's a place where the affluent men in town (like doctors, lawyers, the mayor, etc) go to hang out together.

The Plumbers. Electricians, Bricklayers , Carpenters, Bus Drivers, Rescue workers, Printers, Janitors, Policemen, Factory workers and Steel men in my Lodge would be a bit surprised at that one.

In most towns (esp. small towns) some lodges are more social than anything else however there is a HUGE change coming in America in which lodges will become what they used to be...influencial and a place for secrecy and ritual that will in wrap them in to their own world. When this happen these lodges might not be liked by the more social lodges but these smaller lodges do not understand that this is the way it org. was before Americans.


-S&C

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
In most towns (esp. small towns) some lodges are more social than anything else however there is a HUGE change coming in America in which lodges will become what they used to be...influencial and a place for secrecy and ritual that will in wrap them in to their own world. When this happen these lodges might not be liked by the more social lodges but these smaller lodges do not understand that this is the way it org. was before Americans.


-S&C

I agree... there is a serious change in the wind for masonic lodges, due to the centralization of populations in cities, and the subsequent lack of members for more rural area lodges. I think, over time, we will see more... Universal lodges, that is, a man would be a member of Grand Lodge, and associated with a local lodge for ritual, fellowship, and such at masonic centers. My district has four lodges (two within three miles of each other) and two others at opposite ends of an arbitrary "district", with mixed memberships in all four, where perhaps two lodges might do... or three at most with mixed memberships.

Though, as the lodge populations continue to grow, this may not be necessary. Los Angeles has something like 20 lodges...

Masonry is definately changing, not its core, but I think we are evolving our structure.

Another big change I am seeing is the development of Spanish, Armenian,Turkish, French language only lodges, as well as the ressurgence of traditional observance lodges by brothers looking for more esoteric and research driven masonic lodges...

Sometimes change is good, as long as the essence of what makes us masons does not change.

These traditional lodges I am speaking of are all esoteric and my circle of colleagues (which are the big wigs) and promote the TRUE meaning of masonry which obviously you know

Hope this helps promote the meaning and understandingof were I am coming from.


-S&C

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
These traditional lodges I am speaking of are all esoteric and my circle of colleagues (which are the big wigs) and promote the TRUE meaning of masonry which obviously you know

Hope this helps promote the meaning and understandingof were I am coming from.


-S&C

I would be interested to know what changes are to be made in those lodges. Since I have never been in one I wouldn't have anything to campare it to though. I know esoteric means secret. By big wigs I assume you mean senators, congressmen, governors, judges and other extremely powerful folk.

If you belong to the Masons can you still go on vacations and stuff with your family, or would you get a call to go on an errand with a brother as you were leaving saying,"you know the rules a mason above any other, you come now ?

[edit on 11-10-2004 by TgSoe]

Your family and your work take precedence over Masonry. You are taught that from the very beginning. It is emphasized quite strongly actually.

Originally posted by TgSoe

Originally posted by AFAMfounder
These traditional lodges I am speaking of are all esoteric and my circle of colleagues (which are the big wigs) and promote the TRUE meaning of masonry which obviously you know

Hope this helps promote the meaning and understandingof were I am coming from.

-S&C

I would be interested to know what changes are to be made in those lodges. Since I have never been in one I wouldn't have anything to campare it to though. I know esoteric means secret. By big wigs I assume you mean senators, congressmen, governors, judges and other extremely powerful folk.

If you belong to the Masons can you still go on vacations and stuff with your family, or would you get a call to go on an errand with a brother as you were leaving saying,"you know the rules a mason above any other, you come now ?

the obligation is to aid and assist so far as doing so does not injure you or your family... the decision is always left to the brother, and you cannot be kicked out for the decision... all masons are told that God, Country, Community and Family come FIRST...

I am a member of many Lodges and can say that they are all different. Some are simply social gatherings, but most have some socio-political drive in them. I am not talking election politics. I am talking local politics...who gets what and how things are going to be run. It is impossible to understand w/o being one, and still takes much light to see the intricacies of Freemasonry. I am in the Kansas City, Missouri metro area and there are many tiny lodges that has to farm out their work to other larger Lodges. It is really interesting to see so many people that say they know so much about Freemasonry by simply reading about it. I am not speaking negatively of anyone, just that it is interesting. I suggest reading the book Morals and Dogma by Albert Pike. If you are not a Freemason, it may be a little heavy, but you will get some things out of it. Have a good day and take care. So Mote it Be.