Can't We Have an Even-handed Discussion About the Holocaust?

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posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by Studenofhistory
 
Captain ramsey was jailed in march 39 & released in sept 45 .After 4.5 years in jail he retook his seat in the house of commons the very next day 1952 the nameless war is published .one ear before worlds in collision was taken off the shelves & burned but the tut ankh amun conspiracy by o/farrell is a must & they call this civilization .run forest run




posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by NeoVain
 


Thank you for posting those videos. Youtube has a bunch of videos of David Irving. He is quite outspoken and deeply principled. He's spent his entire adult life researching WW2 mainly from the German side and his videos include some really eye-opening facts. I highly recommend them.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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As a denier, a vast network of angry Jews will silence you. I like Jews, but this topic I will not discuss with them. I just cannot see myself asking the lady I know with the Nazi inflicted tattoo, if 1000 or one billion were gassed.. I say raise it to 1 billion gassed. Give 'em what they want.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:50 PM
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I think to debate it at all is in poor taste. No one questions the genetic cleansing that has happened in recent memory.... But the worst.....perpetrated by most despicable war criminal this world has ever seen somehow needs to be questioned?

Not matter how silver their tongues may be, those who tell you otherwise have an ulterior motive.

Leave it be. Just leave it the hell alone..... There are not expletives strong enough to express my disgust.





posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by earthdude
As a denier, a vast network of angry Jews will silence you. I like Jews, but this topic I will not discuss with them. I just cannot see myself asking the lady I know with the Nazi inflicted tattoo, if 1000 or one billion were gassed.. I say raise it to 1 billion gassed. Give 'em what they want.


I completely understand that mindset. However i am very thirsty for the truth myself, so i will never stop digging in matters i find interesting, personally, even if i have to walk over corpses.

I also do not believe it is fair against the german population to live with such a huge burden as many today have a grandfather or grandmother that was involved with the Nazis in some way, and feel it casts a dark shadow over their entire family, thus feeling very guilty about it. If the truth can lift at least parts of that burden from their shoulders, i think it is a worthwhile endeavor to pursue.

And from what i have seen thus far, it seems the transgressions commited where significantly smaller than the mainstream version, and really not much worse than what is "normal" in wartimes, and if the "gas chamber" myth is eventually proven to be false officially in some way, i think that would lift a huge boulder from the collective german conscience.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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I would like to express my anger at my Jewish friends for letting this hoax be perpetuated. Bad Jew! There, I am done. Now let's talk about this country your religion seems to own........



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by earthdude
 


It's very unfortunate that a minority of jews have tried to exploit the Holocaust for personal gain with false eye witness accounts. Their lies then cast doubt on all other eye witness accounts. I do not hate jews. I have a very good friend, who is jewish. I think the average jew is a decent, hard working and honest individual. What I'm afraid of, is that the unwillingness to allow a factual examination of the hard evidence, whatever it may show, will eventually backfire on the entire worldwide jewish community



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by geobro
reply to post by earthdude
 

a young hebrew boy says to his father ..dad i need 50 c father says ...50 c 40 cents 20 cents 10 cents what you need 5 cents for yes we can all be comedians with figures


^ ^ ^ ^ ^

Prime example of why you'll never be able to have a civil serious discussion on this topic.

Des



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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reply to post by Destinyone
 

its called a joke if you cant laugh then dont cry



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:14 PM
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This reminds me of 9/11. We can't get the truth out of it because it's not 'politically correct'. Luckily, we don't get arrested yet. I was surprised you can get arrested over the holocaust in Germany and Canada just for talking about it. Why would it be a big deal? Unless, someone is trying to hide something.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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Was it David Irving that actually tested the walls of one of the alleged gas chambers and found it tested negative for Zyklon B, a common chemcial which was at the time commonly used as a delousing agent for prisons and internment camps. If i remember correctly, he had the blue substance on the walls that was claimed to be caused by Zyklon tested and when the results came back negative, the facility was closed for a time and no further testing was ever allowed. I saw a documentary about it, if it was David Irving's, it was pretty damned compelling.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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I know this thread is more about understanding the specifics surrounding the Jews and the role the Germans played with regards to them, and to that end I agree everyone should keep an open mind. However, and having said that, there is no denying that Jews were dismantled at the hands of Germans. Weither they purposely gased them all (or as many as they could), or simply left them to die when they no longer had the means to properly care/transport them, is something I really do not care to even argue about. This is not to say I would discourage others from doing so, the truth and it's many details are important. But for me personally, just knowing that Germany looked at the Jews as a lower life form and tried to discard them forcefully is all I really need to know about the subject. The specifics and/or level(s) of voilence used seem less important to me as even the best case scenerio still means it was horrid for the Jews.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by PatriotAct
 

me thinks most of europe to the uk was lucky to throw out the bill in parliament or we could be deported to israhell for asking to many questions .too many prof have died doing this .the 1260 edict of expulsion of king edward is still law here forbidding any jewish person owning property or title . when the queen of england bows to the MAYOR of the city of london maybe someone should tell her to grow a set



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:32 PM
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I have to post a true story because the Nazi Jewish Holocaust does affect me in some way, and I begin...
true story...

I worked as an assistant manager at a fast food restaurant and for years this elderly couple came in every sunday at the same time and ordered the same thing. I became accustomed to treating "regulars" with a little more gratitude, especially the elders, like this couple. I'd shovel the walkway to their car before they left, when I saw them pull in I'd have their food ready for them before they paid, etc... One day, about 2 or 3 years after the same hospitality every sunday for this elderly couple the man calls me by name to their table, he tells me there is something he wants to tell me. I go to the table and he speaks this foreign language and his wife sticks out her arm and pulls up her sleave. She had numbers tattooed on her arm. He then tells me that she was a survivor of the Nazi concentration camps.
It feels good to help people but, damn, that still brings a tear to my eye every time I tell it to people. Because her of most people deserved it the most IMO and I'm glad the good Lord worked through me for them



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:34 PM
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reply to post by twitchy
 


Not quite. David Irving did testify at the Canadian trial but the gas chamber samples were taken by an expert in modern gas chambers who sent the samples to labs for analysis. I think one of the videos in an early post on this thread is the actual new conference by that expert.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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As if the gas chamber was the only method of killing. I too am a big history buff, I'm fairly well read into WWII history and I have read into the mind set of the medical community of Germany and well some of our advances came from the research done using the undesirables in the camps. Here is a very good book on the subject. link Still the focus on the Jews as the sole victims of the Germans is wrong.Thing is I am of the mind that the Japanese were the bigger monsters when it came to atrocities. Japan was not at all shy about using Chinese or Koreans to test their nasty stuff during the war.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by hangedman13
 

nearly all the old soldiers i heard as a kid had some respect for the germans .but woe betide the japanese they had a special hate for those people some i know would not even buy anything japanese until the end of there lives my grandfather remained in the navy till 1948 transporting pows home some of the things i heard as a kid were graffic to say the least



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by geobro
 


Yes, I'm reading a book called Pacific Crucible about the war with Japan in 1941 and 42. The Japanese were just as vulnerable to racial brainwashing as the Germans. Japanese children were taught that since the Emperor was literally a god, and he was the father of the entire Japanese race, therefore all Japanese were racially superior to all other races. The irony is that prior to the war, most Americans believed that the Japanese were too primitive and stupid to pose a serious threat. More tragedy. The hardliners running the Japanese war government felt that the American people were weak and would sue for peace after Pearl Harbor and the Allies felt that unconditional surrender was the only choice even though it caused the Japanese to continue fighting far longer because they believed that their beloved Emperor would be in physical jeopardy.



posted on Jul, 19 2012 @ 10:04 PM
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I don't agree with the idea that "Jewish bankers" are the people who pretty much run the world, try to take over countries, It seems to me there are very powerful bankers, and some of them may even be name "Rothschild" but I do not believe these people have much to do with Zionism. Zionism is a movement to restore a Jewish homeland in Israel, and that was achieved. There is a powerful Jewish lobby in the United States; they do not control the US but could tip the balance politically in favor of war with Iran. Maybe they influence members of congress on matters of US policy on settlements, etc. Israel has done some questionable things (but are surrounded by enemies). But much of what I often hear goes further, and accuses Jewish people as a whole of evil intentions, and of much more power than they actually possess.
The "Holocaust" is not a term I am much in favor of because it seems to imply that there was just one Holocaust. (You can call it the "Shoah" which is more specific). There have been many. Many instances of ethnic cleansing and terror, killings, awful things. What the Nazis did was bring this into an industrial scale and try to eliminate a whole subset of humanity. This is evil and also unwise, as this is not even achievable or necessary. If you eliminate any one group another will take its place. And Germany turned against a whole group of its citizens who could have been loyal if allowed to be. Many of them might have fought for Germany if the regime were not built on an insane philosophy of unfounded hatred towards them. Hitler capitalized on old Christian anti-Semitic sentiments (again, unfounded) and blamed the Jews for the treatment of Germany after WWI. One could also say the seeds for this were planted earlier, during the Inquisition. The only reason the Inquisition didn't kill as many Jews as Hitler was the lack of sufficient murderous technology to do it with. The "Church" made everyone live in fear.
One of the other Holocausts was the killing of possibly up to a million persons of German descent in Eastern Europe after WWII. That's just as evil as what the Nazis did, but fewer in numbers. The Soviets committed atrocities of their own, during and after the war. There were mass atrocities in Cambodia and Azerbaijan and the Balkans.
It does concern me that in some countries you can get arrested for questioning the Holocaust. I think that limits free discussion and learning about this topic. I have seen Dachau for myself, and have read and learned enough to firmly believe this all happened pretty much as the history books tell us. Maybe the numbers for 5 million or 7 rather than 6 million dead. But on the other hand, it seems like young people are often so lacking in knowledge that they might believe some person with an agenda who wants to downplay what happened. Justin Bieber, a couple years ago, in an interview had never heard of "German" (language). People scoff at the idea of another Hitler popping up. Maybe vilifying some other group next time. If a new generation is actually getting dumber, how would they know to stop it before it gets that far?





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