Why the Growing Animosity of Americans Towards Europe

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

First, as a Canadian please accept my sincerest apologies for that assault, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you said nothing unkind about Canada or Canadians first.


Thanks, but no appology needed. I understand what the causes are. We do tend to be overly arrogant. Being from Alaska, I get a lot of the same questions. It was only in the Yukon that I ran into that. Throughout the rest of our trip we were well treated and had a great time. My wife and I were able to win them over by remaining friendly. The one fellow who walked away mad, I believe, was just pissed at the world in general.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by Blaine91555
After 52% is taken for taxes I don't see how these people survive!

And just so you can understand that it is not exclusive. The tax rate is not 52%, not even at the top bracket. As well, there is one very big difference between US taxes and Canadian taxes as to what they are used for, which unfortunately is also vastly misunderstood by our American friends.

That figure was given to me by a Canadian citizen during a discussion while on a tech support call. If it is wrong I appologize. No offense was meant or intended. He claimed it was the rate at which most Canadians are taxed. To be frank, I pay more than that here after adding on state and local taxes!

Originally posted by alien

Originally posted by Jakomo
It was called a World War for a reason. The US was only one player, there were dozens of other countries that lost troops and had to defend their own homes from the Nazis.

That's one of the reasons why Europeans don't like Americans. You freed them from the Nazis and they owe you? What about all the rest of the people from other countries who fought and died?

...would tend to agree with you on that point...

This is a picture of Copernicus

He figured out that the Earth revolved around the Sun...

...sometimes from reading some of what is posted here on ATS...I'm left with the opinion that some US citizens are so far up their own arse they are in serious danger of imploding...



Peace,
ALIEN

[edit on 8-10-2004 by alien]

The imploding statement was sooo funny

Originally posted by FredT
While most countries in Europe have thier share of immigrants, America IMHO is unique in its diverse population base.

This is often said by Americans, but it is not a truism, unless of course it is meant in reference to head count or specifically in comparison to Europe. But unique in the sense of one of a kind it is not, extraordinary yes.

When I was living in Germany, I remember the higher tax rate. We were paid monthly, and a large percent went to taxes. Their was church tax, Solidarity Tax( for rebuilding East Germany), income tax, etc.

But, I never had to worry about a medical bill. If my children, or my wife were sick, or in the case of my son, was diagnosed with epilepsy and needed specail treatment and medication, there was never a bill. Don't beleive that you have no choice of doctors under Socialized Medicine: that's just not true( in Germany at least.) If my son had his diagnoses done here, I would still be paying the bill, if not in court being sued by the provider because I couldn't afford to pay my share.

Originally posted by nathraq
Europe is also Eu or nationalistic centered,

- Er, says who?

Who is teaching you Americans this rubbish about how most Europeans see the EU....or, for that matter what the EU actually is and how it works?

The truth is that nationalism is so far off of the European agenda right now that to claim otherwise is just to demonstrate one's ignorance.

The EU does not dominate in the manner some seem to imagine. Even only a handful of the small British anti-EU minority would make such claims.

The EU is a voluntary collective where nations freely and democratically directly elect to it's power structures or the freely and democratically elected national Governments nominate to those power structures.

The EU has a track record of extending basic human rights and enabling progressive rights across the EU to a standard way beyond that which existed previously without it.

isn't it true they take in much more of American consumerism, than the other way around? I mean, Britney Spears is known throughout Europe and world, but Rammstein has just a 'cult' following here in the US. Everyone knows what a Big Mac is, but who can tell me what a Jaegersnitzel is?

- These are very fair points nathraq. US consumerist culture has penetrated very far and quite noteably.

....but, correct me if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here, it would seem that Euro resistance to this or 'protecting' Euro culture is deemed to be 'Euro nationalism'? Why?

My point is, they seem to more more accepting of American influence, than vice-versa. One person even asked my wife(German National), if they have refrigerators in Germany.

- I think instances of risible and gross ignorance can be turned up in either side of the atlantic.

Blaine - actually the taxation rate (at the federal level) is 16 percent on your first $35,000, then a percentage over that depending on which bracket you are. Then you have the provincial tax, and the taxation rate depends on what province you lived in.

When I lived in Qu�bec, the taxation rate was 24 percent - which means that with the federal tax, you pay at least 40 percent of your income in taxes. Qu�b�cois are apparently the most taxed people of North America.

Since I moved to Ontario, I believe my taxation rate is about 30-35 percent, federal and provincial tax combined.

Its not all of Europe, just France, Germany, Kofi and the UN.

Lets start with the WOT and Iraq, the reason France and Germany put up such a fight over the removal of SH was pure greed.

These 2 countries had a cash cow and they didnt want to give it up.

France and Germany were supporting Iraq even thought there were multiple UN sanctions in effect, for years there were getting kickbacks from Iraq and the whole time the people of Iraq were starving, while France and German companies were lining their pockets, the French and German governments turned their heads!

From the very start as GWB went to the UN to get support to get rid of SH, France and Germany were knee deep in fraud and coruption along with the Kofi and his family in regards to the oil for food program.

The Dulfer report states these 2 countries were aiding Iraq and SH with weapons while American and coalalition forces were dying.

And you wonder why americans are upset at France and Germany.

You all think America is the criminal here, and in all actuallity it is France and Germany.

Take a guess where i am from??????????

I have no problems with any country / race or creed, that would make me racist.

There is good and bad in every country & anyone who says not , must be walking around with rose tinted specs!

We have a mutitude of foreigners living in the UK, the majority whom live a peace full life.
Of course we have a minority who 'hate' any foreign influx from any country. That is the same in any country.

I have travelled to many countries in the last 25 years and have seen violence & death. I have seen alot more of good willed people (including French & German) who would bend over backwards to help you.

The war in Iraq will invoke racism because of the injustices they have given to hostages. That's a fact of life.
My son is over there at the moment along with 2 life long friends who live across the road from me. The sights they have seen dont bare mentioning, but there is racism rife among Iraqi's towards both the British & Americans.
If France were there and any other country for that matter, they would suffer the same racism too.

Im gunna end here, because i would go on for ages & it would end up being a boring read for people.

Im not here to say what is right or wrong, but just to say i have experienced good & bad through out the world.

I've never left the US, but hope to be able to travel in the future. I guess I get some of my bad feeling toward other countries from their own people or their news. God knows on this site alone there's been a huge amount of America bashing, and not all hand in hand with Bush bashing. I know people who've moved to other countries and talked about how it goes for them there. A friend who moved to France said she gets a lot of attitude and smug "gentle abuse" (as she puts it) from the people there because she's American. I worked with people in a British company based here in the US and many of them behaved, not as though they were working with their American counterparts, but as if they were merely tolerating some mentally retarded people who had stumbled upon their important work. I had some friends from Germany who thought we were all lazy, but I never held it against them because every time they turned on the tv it was Hitler, Hitler, Hitler over here. I'd love to take my mother to the UK, where she's always wanted to go her whole life, but we both worry that we'll be trashed as "warmongers" and idiots since that's what seems to be the popular opinion that we've seen and read about.

Originally posted by Jakomo

I tend to think that when people slander the French for being rude and stinky, and they've actually BEEN there, then they're just talking about the waiters.

I think that the bad-blood between the French and the Americans goes back well over 100 years. I think that the comments on being rude and stinking are simply a product of that tension (although untrue).

In one of my college history courses we were shown copies of French anti-American propaganda dating back to the first 50-75 years of the US's initial developement (I assume to prevent too many French citizens from seeking a life in the New World). Back in America even Samuel Clemens said many nasty things about the French. I'm not sure of the origin of this bad-blood (and don't say WWII, because it predates that), but I imagine that it began as a competitive/pride issue. Other than the French/American tension, I personally haven't noticed any signifigant hostilities toward European nations. I think that most Europeans may have the wrong idea about Americans and vice versa. I think most of us are wise enough to know that people are just people all around the world.
I personally am a mutt. I have German, French, Scotch/Irish and even a touch of Native American ancestry (and I'm sure a few others if you go back far enough)... a strange Euro/American cocktail... so I can't say anything about anyone lol.

In fact, just the other day I asked a friend of mine who is from Greece whether or not other Greeks really disliked Americans. He was actually offended. He replied,
"Give us some credit. We know that Americans are just people. We may dislike your government from time to time, but that doesn't mean that we don't like you."
One of the wisest statements I've heard in a good while. I think that sentiment is probably at the heart of any prejudgement based on nationality.

The funniest thing is that most Europeans and Americans are far more alike than they are different IMHO.

You don't have to feel animosity toward any nation if you're American. Americans and their government are not the same thing, you don't have to agree with the government to be an American. You're a citizen, you pay your tax, you served in Armed Forces, you are entitled to have your opinions about the world and your own country. And if anyone tells you to hate another country for some dumbass reason tell them to go # themselves, just like our VP does when he doesn't like something.

You can love this country and other countries as well. Countries are not like girlfriends. You can say you love your country and another country and you get two times the love, not two times the negative feedback.

America. It's a free country.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I have a very strong bond to Europe....I lived there for 3 years as a teenager and have visited often since we moved...I plan on returning there in the future to live permanently - As I've said in several other threads before, my patience with America is reaching its end...Europe offers me with more of what I want and desire...

Could you please take the entire Democratic party with you. Leave your guns here. We like them

Originally posted by Apoc
. When you look at the number of Americans that died freeing Europe in WWII sure seems like there is not much in the way of thanks.

The thanks will come once you go home again.. the russians left 15 years ago...

Its looking more like an invasion that a liberation now.

Adressing the topic:

I think there is a cirtain attitude in the US that has a problem with anyone telling them where to go or what to do. See the US reactions to UN court rulings, and the fact the US has not signed up to the internat. criminal court.

Originally posted by FredT
While most countries in Europe have thier share of immigrants, America IMHO is unique in its diverse population base.

One big difference: the US assimilates the culture of the immigrants and tries to blend then into this homogenic american culture. The US doesn't even recognize spanish as an official language (or does it?) the place should be bilingual like canada.

If europe federalizes i think we will keep the diversity and not have a bland pan-european culture. Just the languages we speak here will keep the diversity alive.

Originally posted by Otts
Since I moved to Ontario, I believe my taxation rate is about 30-35 percent, federal and provincial tax combined.

Otts, just curious, are you including the VAT?

Why?
Besause when I, as an american, say that I love my country, and believe it to be the best in the world it is blind nationalism, arrogance, jingoism or a less enlightened outlook.
When a frenchman, german, or britisher says it it's pride.
Because of the prevailing view in western europe as I have seen first hand, that all Americans are ignorant, arrogant and boorish.
Because Europeans think they are "more progressive" "more enlightened" "more socially advanced"
Because Europeans seem to think American culture and Mcdonalds are synonymous.
Because I'm sick of hearing tht America needs to "grow up" and that when we "mature" we will be more like europe.
Because I am tred of my country being accused of being the source of all evil, suffering, and injustce in the world (or at least the primary contributer)
Because some people actually think the American effort in WW2 was not a major contributing factor. (discounting not only the sacrifice of our soldiers but also the massive industrial effort we made to support our allies before we ever even sent a single soldier, such as the liberty ships and food convoys which fed the UK while hitlers U-boats were virtually starving the nation)
Because the belgians had the nerve to charge Bush (say what you like he is the Presdent of the US) with war crimes in a belgian (not international) court.
When people think they are somehow "morally superior" and more "socially advanced" than you are its hard to like them.

Originally posted by mwm1331
Why?
Besause when I, as an american, say that I love my country, and believe it to be the best in the world it is blind nationalism, arrogance, jingoism or a less enlightened outlook.
When a frenchman, german, or britisher says it it's pride.

I live here and know of none that proclaim this..

wait we have those kind of people too we call them NEO-NAZIS!

You use the language like you know how to... "i believe it to be the best in the world" by this i gather you mean to imply the "best country"?

DEFINE FOR ME A "BEST COUNTRY"!

Best at doing something? Like bombing 3rd world countries?

Best at "just being a country"? Others are far older and therefore have had more practice.

I am sorry to suggest you are spouting drrivel that has been implanted in your head, but i am trying at least to help make your statements say something.

Someone said that the US was owed a debt of gratitude by France for US involvment in WWII, If you look at your history book the French swung the American Revolutionary war in favour of the Americans, so I think you are all square.

I think there is no animosity between the peoples of different countries its the governments that people object to. I am British and George Bush scares the Be'jesus out of me but I love America and the American people. Though Britain isnt the typical European country.

My ten penneth.

I define best as the best country for me. As in the one I like best. The one whos system I believe is best. The one I believe is the best for me to live in.
But thanks for helpng t illustrate the point I was making corinthas, I can always count on you to badmouth somethng you know nothng about, take what people say out of context, and generally percieve anything to do with America in a negatve light.