Why the Growing Animosity of Americans Towards Europe

In previous threads myself, and a few others, have been blasted or flamed on our positive opinions of Europe. One member even called me a 'rascist' for supporting and praising the West in the history of the world.

I am American. I served in the Armed forces for 5 years. But I am also 2nd generation Croatian. We have relatives in the 'old' country, who we still have contact with. I lived in Germany for 7 years, after I got out of the Army.

I have been torn between the 2 worlds; that of American 'good ol' boy' values, and that of European progressiveness. I support the right to bear arms, but I also think gays should be able to marry. I am against a national ID card, but I think nudity on TV isn't such a bad thing.

There may be other Americans here who also are 1st or 2nd or 3rd generation European, and still have those ties to Europe. Do you feel the same way?

Would Mexican or Asian Americans feel the same way? Are some in the same case as me, where they look Asian or Latino, or have an ethnic last name, but can't speak their parents languages?( I speak Croatian at a bit above elementary level).

My point is this: In my situation, I feel a bond to both America, and Europe. For some of us, Europe is the place of our ancestors. They are not that much different than Americans are. Why the animosity then?

If France and Germany disagreed with us on Iraq, does that make them any less the allies they were before the War? I wouldn't judge the French or Germans on their leaders mistakes, any more than I would want them judging me for what Bush did/does.

I am proud of my heritage, and that of my ancestors. I am proud of the Western world for all their acomplishments. There have been many bad situations produced by the West, that I know. But the generosity, kindness to foreigners, and stable environments should overshadow all the indecencies committed by Western Culture.

We, as Americans, should understand that we are not only part of the world, but also a Western Nation. We are not the 'center' of the universe. The countries of Europe are our sisters and brothers, our fathers and mothers. I am by no way trying to sound rascist. . I have already been accused of that( for what reason I don't know). I am aiming this thread at those of European descent, who diss and flame the Europeans consistently.

The disagreement between the US and France and Germany is just that: a disagreement. It is miniscule in the course of all the history we have shared together. At the time WW1 and WW2 were worse than the situation now. But we pulled through it. Our enemies then, are our allies now.

peace.


[edit on 8-10-2004 by nathraq]

I have a very strong bond to Europe....I lived there for 3 years as a teenager and have visited often since we moved...I plan on returning there in the future to live permanently - As I've said in several other threads before, my patience with America is reaching its end...Europe offers me with more of what I want and desire...

I think its ludicrous for the average person here on ATS or anywhere to cast a shadow of generalization over those that feel more in touch, or have a connection or better understanding of the European way of life than most people - its a sign of a lack of knowledge and bigotry.

I'm of European decent and I don't have any problems with our European Allies. I also was in the Military and over in Europe. For the most part, the Europeans were nice people. No where near as crazy as us Americans. We could could learn a lot from them. Especially when it comes to being opened minded to many different things. And not so scared and paranoid. I hope that all Europeans realize that not all or even half of the people in this country believe in George Bush and his policies. We can only pray he doesn't get back in! I'm proud to be of European decent, but I will always be an American and dam proud of that.

It's easier to criticize other people's countries than to try and fix what's wrong with your own I guess.

That and shocking ignorance. When people insult European countries, I figure they're usually just ignorant and uneducated and have never been to Europe in the first place.

Europe is many, many things, it's IMPOSSIBLE to jam all Europeans into one category. People who do prove themselves to be closeminded and ignorant.

My ties to Europe are very very distant, so I cannot speak as anything but from an American upbringing.

I agree with your sentiments. I believe the U.S. reacts as if we live in a U.S.-centered universe. I believe our nation acts on the global scene as if rules apply to every one but us, and that we can act in any manner we so choose - even with resultant detriment to others, but every one else needs to run their decisions by us.

Along with that, I wish we would decrease foreign aide substantially. And when I say that, I mean the "strategic foreign aide" not the foreign aide to third-world countries who are trying to develop themselves.

I wish I saw the U.S. being a better neighbor and a better steward.

I don't personally have a problem with any European countries, but there are certain ones that I don't agree with their foreign policies anymore than I agree with the U.S.'s...but that's not something I hold against the country, governments are not the people...even here.

Those who do the badmouthing, have often never been there...

I myself, have had the priveledge of going there often in my youth. I can't wait to eventually take my wife there, somewhere (London, at least, or perhaps a castle tour of the Rhine, etc.) They've been around a lot longer than we have, and there is a lot we can learn from them.

Of course, I've gotten into some good French, etc. bashing as well, but only in fun...it would never seriously be directed towards the people themselves...(often it was just to get Nans riled up)

I tend to think that when people slander the French for being rude and stinky, and they've actually BEEN there, then they're just talking about the waiters.


If anyone who hates the French spent any time in France, they would change their mind.

Of course, if they go and expect everything to be English and all the food to be standard North American "cuisine" then they might not, but I don't even understand why people travel if they expect everything to be the same as back home.

A lot of these positive feelings I have towards the French are due to the 10 months I spent there and all the wine I drank

I think negative sentiments toward some countries in Europe is understandable. With the amount of American tax payer money that gets funneled to these countries only to see polls where their populace thinks we are the worlds' evil often serves to generate negative feelings. When you look at the number of Americans that died freeing Europe in WWII sure seems like there is not much in the way of thanks. The US spends more money on world charity than any other country yet all many people do is besmirch. There is a feeling of jealously fired animosity from many European countries. Many of these place are former world powers and are jealous of the power the US has become. When people don't like you, it's hard to like them.

Apoc:

When you look at the number of Americans that died freeing Europe in WWII sure seems like there is not much in the way of thanks.

It was called a World War for a reason. The US was only one player, there were dozens of other countries that lost troops and had to defend their own homes from the Nazis.

That's one of the reasons why Europeans don't like Americans. You freed them from the Nazis and they owe you? What about all the rest of the people from other countries who fought and died?

They owe you the thanks they gave you at the time, at this point they owe you nothing.

Which countries in Europe are getting economic aid from the U.S.? I can't think of any at the moment.

Wait, Maybe the former Eastern bloc countries. But I'm sure they don't view America in a negative light.

Here is a link to casualty counts by country to show that this was a global event, and it was globally determined:

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by Jakomo
It was called a World War for a reason. The US was only one player, there were dozens of other countries that lost troops and had to defend their own homes from the Nazis.

That's one of the reasons why Europeans don't like Americans. You freed them from the Nazis and they owe you? What about all the rest of the people from other countries who fought and died?

...would tend to agree with you on that point...

This is a picture of Copernicus

He figured out that the Earth revolved around the Sun...

...sometimes from reading some of what is posted here on ATS...I'm left with the opinion that some US citizens are so far up their own arse they are in serious danger of imploding...



Peace,
ALIEN

[edit on 8-10-2004 by alien]

nathraq

This actually is a good topic. I posted one similar but asking the opposite question. Yes it is hard to formulate an informed opinion when you have not been to other countries. More to the point, if you have not lived there its even harder. I myself spent 4 years from 1976-1980 albiet in the then Yugoslavia and travels both Easter Europe as well as Western. Clearly a different time, but fundamentaly people can only change so much. I loved Europe and I cherish my experience there.

So what has gone wrong? Several things. As Valhall pointed out in her post, there is a US centered view of things. That being said it is no different in Europe where the view is either nationalistic or even EU centered. Its a two way street at best. It seems on first glance, that when Americans are patriotic in general its labled as "ignorant of world views" or self centered, yet as evidenced on this board is it any different that the pride the EU nations feel for thier country for thier "United States of Europe" which is a good description of the EU.

Alot of the animosity does and will center around the actions of France during the GWII. Right or wrong, that is what we are dealing with. While clearly some of the charges are out in right field, some are valid on both sides. I had hoped that watching the D-Day events this year that it would serve as a bridge to the divide that has developed between the countires. But it seems the divisions are deeper than that. My grandfather jumped into rance as a member of the 101 Airborne. He, myself, and America would come to the aid of Europe again, much as Im sure that Europe would do the same. Again its a two way street. We can go on for days (and have to no end) about perceptions between both US and France. It would be disgracefull to rehash the sterotypes thrown both ways.

Europe and the US will have to and ultimently will get along much as we have over the previous century.

True, FredT. But, as Europe is also Eu or nationalistic centered, isn't it true they take in much more of American consumerism, than the other way around? I mean, Britney Spears is known throughout Europe and world, but Rammstein has just a 'cult' following here in the US. Everyone knows what a Big Mac is, but who can tell me what a Jaegersnitzel is?

My point is, they seem to more more accepting of American influence, than vice-versa. One person even asked my wife(German National), if they have refrigerators in Germany.

This thing is clearly out of control. American tourists in France are being spit on, called names and generaly treated badly. Our CEO is Jewish and his family is from France. After his last trip he tells me it's no longer safe for Jews in France and they have to hide that fact while they are there! Something has gone horribly wrong in that country and I'm shocked their citizens don't rise up and do something about it. On a recent trip through Canada I had to sit through a two hour tirade on how horrible Americans are. I could not believe the lies about Americans they had bought into! I talked to one girl who believed the US was a barren waste land covered in toxic trash heaps and completely denuded of all vegitation and could not convince her otherwise. She said she got all of her information from CNN!!! They blame the US for their lack of prosperity in the Yukon even though all the businesses are clearly owned by Europeans. To be fair though, it was our environmentalist who shut down all their mines and logging operations. As a result they are forced to work in the European owned tourist shops for minimum wage. After 52% is taken for taxes I don't see how these people survive!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
This thing is clearly out of control. American tourists in France are being spit on, called names and generaly treated badly...Something has gone horribly wrong in that country and I'm shocked their citizens don't rise up and do something about it.

I agree it has. In all fairness though, they were considered to be part of the group called "Old europe" Labeled cowards, cheese monkeys, had their wines poured in the gutter, and was hurled every insult imaginable just because they had an opposing opinion. But the problem to fix is not just theirs as this is not a one way street.

On a recent trip through Canada I had to sit through a two hour tirade on how horrible Americans are. I could not believe the lies about Americans they had bought into! I talked to one girl who believed the US was a barren waste land covered in toxic trash heaps and completely denuded of all vegitation and could not convince her otherwise. She said she got all of her information from CNN!!! They blame the US for their lack of prosperity in the Yukon even though all the businesses are clearly owned by Europeans. To be fair though, it was our environmentalist who shut down all their mines and logging operations. As a result they are forced to work in the European owned tourist shops for minimum wage. After 52% is taken for taxes I don't see how these people survive!

First, as a Canadian please accept my sincerest apologies for that assault, and I give you the benefit of the doubt that you said nothing unkind about Canada or Canadians first. Not only was it downright rude, it was full of ignorance and completely arrogant. Most times I find it is the younger crowd (under 30) who display a total lack of arrogance. Permit me though to tell you some of the few comical but serious remarks I have had made to me by Americans.

Happy Thanksgiving Day, what will you be doing for the holiday? This in November.

response- Thank you but we have already had our TGD.

How come?

response- because it is in October.

Why?

Happy Martin Luther King Day.

Happy fourth of July.

Oh, you have WalMart here in Canada too?

Look at those big buildings, I thought Toronto was really small.

Is it cold up there now? (This in the middle of summer)

Do you have cable TV up there?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
After 52% is taken for taxes I don't see how these people survive!

And just so you can understand that it is not exclusive. The tax rate is not 52%, not even at the top bracket. As well, there is one very big difference between US taxes and Canadian taxes as to what they are used for, which unfortunately is also vastly misunderstood by our American friends.

Originally posted by EnronOutrunHomerun
I have a very strong bond to Europe....I lived there for 3 years as a teenager and have visited often since we moved...I plan on returning there in the future to live permanently - As I've said in several other threads before, my patience with America is reaching its end...Europe offers me with more of what I want and desire...

I think its ludicrous for the average person here on ATS or anywhere to cast a shadow of generalization over those that feel more in touch, or have a connection or better understanding of the European way of life than most people - its a sign of a lack of knowledge and bigotry.

Well said. I plan to move to Europe as well. I just can't stand America anymore.

Originally posted by nathraq
True, FredT. But, as Europe is also Eu or nationalistic centered, isn't it true they take in much more of American consumerism, than the other way around?

The main difference, is that America is awash in different cultures and most (but not all) incorporate various aspects of it into thier day to day lives. So if anything, America, is a mish mash of everything. Perhaps this is the pervasive apeall of American consumerism and culture. As you point out there are very few places where the main cultural icons of the US are not present. Even during the cold war, they made inroads into Warsaw pact countries. Instead of pointing at the US and its "lack" of acceptance of European Culture, take a closer look around. it is everywhere as is the influences of non European cultures as well. While most countries in Europe have thier share of immigrants, America IMHO is unique in its diverse population base.

I cannot comment on the comments made to your wife. Like EVERY country we have our fair share of ignorance as well.

I seriously believe that people in EU countries such as Germany and France are being brainwashed into hating US.
I was recently talking to a young German and he said that you "have to hate US" in Germany.
He also suddenly said when we were talking about US and Europe that "life in US must be so hard".
When asked why and he says "dunno". And he is not the only one, young generations all dislike or hate US for some reason.

I think this US hating has nothing to do with history or any random phenomena.
It all seems to be carefully engineered media propaganda designed to promote EU socialist policies, as opposed to US strict capitalism (low taxes). Their media spreads lies about how in US old people die on streets and how nobody cares for old...etc. because government wants to ensure public support for high taxes.
This is why there is overwhelming support for socialism, high taxes, massive welfare...
Possibly all to ensure enough economic help for new EU members?

btw, I'm from Croatia too.. and if this coward government (and others alike in the region) would simply cut taxes by 1/3 they could accomplish boom in living standards like in Ireland 10-20 years ago, so there would be no need to beg these EU pinko rat governments to take over their sovereignity...