On Lies of Aztec Human Sacrifice

I'm intrigued by this topic, but here's the issue. We are interpreting the past to give it meaning rather than looking at the forensic evidence. Since we do not have living witnesses or other contemporary forms of evidence all we are doing is interpreting written history. This kind of analysis is great, but we should be looking at forensics.

Instead of interpreting the physical evidence that's left behind let's just list it without ascribing meaning.

01. Pre-hispanic art carvings that illustrate humans using knives or other weapons on each other.
02. Slabs on temples that are long enough for a person.
03. Knives that are left in the area.

If we replace the carving part with just "art" we could use those same three statements to describe a park in a large urban area with street art. Does that mean someone could have been killed in the park or that someone left a knife from a picnic behind? The slabs in our parks are benches, memorial statuary, etc.

Rather than argue for either side I want to show that physical evidence is open widely for interpretation. If you take the same list I just made and 400 years from now the only documents of our destroyed culture are about massive gang warfare in cities... You see where I'm going.

So, what are some facts we have that is physical evidence from that area?

01. Beheaded bodies have been found.
02. A mass grave of young boys with a religious statue has been found.
03. Chemical analysis of the floors in temples found quantities of blood that included human DNA.
04. Bones with extensive cut marks have been found.
05. Bones consistent with cannibalism have been found.
06. Knives with human blood have been analyzed.
07. These knives were proven to be specialized as each contained different cells, one for skin, one for tissue,etc

Now what we do with these facts is make speculations, interpretations.

We should also remember that art and writing do not have to be literal. All religions use metaphors. When we take literature at face value we are missing what writers do. They are inspired and use language as an art form. So, even if the codices are not lies by they Spanish, but faithfully recorded, they could still be just stories that were told as a mythological part of the Aztec religion. This can also be looked at with prescriptive versus descriptive writing.

What the OP has done, and I thank you for it, is introduce discourse.

What I wish fervently is that science would move towards not making assumptions and stop setting out with biases to find things and then receive confirmation bias.

Finally, here are two of the sources I found. What I did was simply remove all the talk of sacrifice and look at what the researchers FOUND without putting a name on it.

I warn you that these articles are very dramatic with the human sacrifice talk.
www.huffingtonpost.com... an-sacrifice-evidence-stone-knives_n_1473749.html


articles.latimes.com...

reply to post by Unity_99


here is something else which I found interesting.

Three of the principle elements of the Babylonian religion were fire, serpents and the Sun. I should explain their focus on the Sun because it is a vital part of the story. Most of the global population worshipped the Sun for its obvious gifts of heat and light and the effect this had on their crops and well-being. However, within the hierarchy of the Babylon Brotherhood and other Elite groups which had the advanced knowledge, they focused on the Sun for other reasons too. They understood the true nature of the Sun as a multidimensional consciousness which extends across the solar system on unseen frequency levels.

Even in this physical dimension, the Sun’s emissions of magnetic energy are constantly affecting us second by second. The Sun has a diameter of some 864,000 miles and contains 99% of the matter in the Solar System.17 It is an immense ball of energy which works very much like an atomic bomb and the internal temperature can reach as much as 14 million degrees centigrade.18 It rotates faster at the equator than at the poles and therefore the activity and stimulation of the Sun’s magnetic field is simply colossal. The writer and researcher Maurice Cotterell has made a long and detailed study of sunspot and solar flare activity when the Sun is projecting immensely powerful magnetic energy.

This has been photographed as gigantic loops of fire, some 100,000 miles high.19 This energy travels to the Earth on the solar wind and it can affect computer systems and cause power blackouts. But for the Van Allen Belts, the zones of radiation which surround the planet and connect with the Earth’s magnetic field, the Sun’s energy would ‘fry’ us.

Maurice Cotterell studied the sunspot cycles and established short, long and great cycles of solar activity, as he explains in his book with Adrian G. Gilbert called The Mayan Prophecies.20 When Cotterell’s research was already advanced, he came across the amazing mathematical system of numbers and symbols left by the ancient Maya people in Central America. The Maya claimed to have originated with the ‘gods’ and recognized a lost island as their former home.

Their astonishingly accurate mathematical and astronomical systems, and their measurement of time, were inherited from much older cultures and ultimately from the extraterrestrials. We have already seen that Mexican President Miguel De La Madrid claimed that the Mayans were interbred with the reptilians, the ‘iguana race’ as he put it.

Maurice Cotterell was fascinated to realize that the Mayan cycles of human evolution corresponded remarkably with his sunspot cycles of magnetic emissions. Even over thousands of years, they were incredibly close. This is perfectly explainable. Everything is energy. Life is the interaction of magnetic vibrational fields.

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

The Babylonian High Priest, who instructed the inner circle initiates, was known as... Peter, meaning the ‘Great Interpreter’. The feast day of the Christian St Peter was traditionally celebrated on the day the Sun entered the astrological house of Aquarius, the very day that Eannus and Janus were honoured!12

The Babylonian religion, like all the look-alikes that were to follow, consisted of two levels. The masses were manipulated into believing superstitions and into taking symbolic stories literally, while the chosen initiates were given the real knowledge on penalty of death if they ever revealed it. In this way the truth about life, human potential, history and the reptilian Agenda, were lost to the population and kept only for the few.

Human sacrifice was fundamental to the religion of Babylon and wherever the Babylonian Brotherhood and their reptilian bloodlines have traveled, human sacrifice has always gone with them because the reptilians demand these rituals. The malevolent ones seem to be addicted to blood and this has been passed on to their crossbreeds as the evidence I shall present will show.

The Babylonian priests were required to eat some of their sacrificial offerings and so the word for priest, Cahna-Bal, became the term for eating human flesh, cannibal.13 Moloch, the name of that flying lizard I mentioned earlier, was another name for Nimrod-Tammuz.

ADD:

Another constant is the latitude of 19.5 degrees. This is the latitude on which the pyramids, many ancient temple complexes, and other sacred structures were built. It is also where you will find the volcanoes on Hawaii, the Schild volcanoes on Venus, the massive Olympus Mons volcano on Mars, the dark spot on Neptune, the red spot on Jupiter and the main area of sunspot activity, north and south, on the Sun.33

This all fits like a glove, because sunspots are emissions of incredibly powerful electromagnetic energy from the Sun, and volcanoes are obvious emissions of energy from the planets. Not surprisingly, therefore, 19.5 degrees is the point of energy exchange between rotating spheres and the hierarchy of the ancients knew this. The Sumerians knew, for instance, about the cycle of what is called precession. This is the effect of the Earth’s ‘wobble’ which slowly moves the planet on its axis so that it faces different star systems or astrological ‘houses’ over many thousands of years.

As their records show, the Sumerians knew that it took 2,160 years for the Earth to move through each ‘house’ and 25,920 years to complete the cycle - the period it also takes the solar system to complete its journey around its galactic centre. We are completing one of these cycles now, hence the enormous change that is upon us. Ancient temples all over the world reflect these cycles of precession in their geometry and mathematics. Isn’t it amazing what ‘primitive’ people can do? The Elite of the Phoenician-Aryans had enormous knowledge of the Earth’s energy grid and its potential to affect human consciousness. After all, we live within the planet’s magnetic field.

Here is something else.

In the early 1990s Richard Hoagland, a former NASA scientist, had become intrigued by what appeared, in NASA photographs, to be a number of Pyramids and a Sphinx clustered together in a region called Cydonia on the surface of Mars. As his research continued he recognized that Cydonia sits astride the 19.5-degree latitude on Mars, and that furthermore so does the ‘eye’ on Jupiter and the most active volcanoes on Earth which are on The Big Island of Hawaii. (Also on Earth the Mayan ruins in the Yucatan of Mexico sit on the 19.5 line).

He was pondering these coincidences when another researcher, Drunvalo Melchizedek, who was primarily interested in sacred geometry, noticed that if you place a Star Tetrahedron (which is composed of 2 interlocking 4-sided tetrahedrons) so that it fits inside a sphere with its points touching the surface of the sphere, then if the two opposite points of the tetrahedrons are the ‘poles’ of this sphere, then the other points of the tetrahedrons touch the sphere at 19.5 degrees north and south of the ‘equator’.

The Star Tetrahedron is significant because it is one of the shapes that energetic interdimensional vehicles, known as the ‘Merkaba’ or ‘Light-body’, manifest as. At Planet Earth’s 19.5-degree latitude we have the intersection between the light body of the planet with its surface, and since light-bodies have the ability to connect us to other dimensions, at this latitude we have an energetic predisposition for inter-dimensional experience.

Hence the massive volcanoes on Mars, the eye and Moon of Jupiter, two volcanoes on Venus, a ‘dark spot’ on Neptune, dark cloud bands on Saturn and the Volcanoes of Hawaii.

www.psychicchildren.co.uk...

I didn't want to post this information since interested parties will bombard it with questions of its validity as a source.

I say the Mayan were influenced by these beings from a higher dimensional frequency. They then turned to sun worship and began erasing their benevolent history of teacher founders for ones of war Gods that drank human blood. This spread all over the continent until it was completely enveloped in war and sacrifice. The icing on the cake was that after all had perished and the sell outs who had summoned and channeled these entities thought they would rebuild in their image....the Spanish came and killed them off too. They were sold out from the beginning.

The arrival of the Spanish could be said to have been divined in the Americas and planned in the old world as well considering the prophesies that were written about them before they came and the maps the old world possessed showing the Americas before Columbus sailed. Nothing is coincidence, we just fail to see beyond our understanding and what we can see.

in todays world you need to keep an open mind. Or else you will repeat the same errors of your fathers.

reply to post by denynothing


Are you high, comparing the ranged weapons the Spanish had back then, with machine guns? Those muskets were not better than crossbows, at that time!

The only adventage the European had againt the Ameroindians would be mere psychological. Yes, psy ops they call it today. Aztecan warriors seeing fire spitting and noisy weaponry that could kill from distance. But they had their own weapons too, I dont know what it is called, but the people around the Amazones, used to use them for hunting animals. A long bamboo like stick with a hole in the center. They use their mouth to blow the projectile, which was usualy coated in frog poison.

Its not like that the Spaniards had tactical bomber squadrons or something against the Aztecan. Fire weapon at that time is rather far fetched, if you compare them with todays automatic rifles, or even a semiauto handgun. (--,) You must be joking?

Here is another reference to old world religions. IN the very least it proves that cultures at one point were unified under one religion. Much like what is proposed now.

The Maya had a special relationship to Venus because of its "unified polarity," seen in the ability to transform itself from the morning star to the evening star. As we unite our polarities (which can be seen as our male and female aspects), we mirror the divine feminine and masculine aspects that are presently uniting in order to birth the consciousness of the divine child within us. This unification is a state of wholeness that frees and enhances, permeating our beings on all levels.

www.astrodreamadvisor.com...


EDIT: back on topic.

Huitzilopochtli was a tribal god and a legendary wizard of the Aztecs. Originally he was of little importance to the Nahuas, but after the rise of the Aztecs, Tlacaelel reformed their religion and put Huitzilopochtli at the same level as Quetzalcoatl, Tlaloc, and Tezcatlipoca, making him a solar god. Through this, Huitzilopochtli replaced Nanahuatzin, the solar god from the Nahua legend. Huitzilopochtli was said to be in a constant struggle with the darkness and required nourishment in the form of sacrifices to ensure the sun would survive the cycle of 52 years, which was the basis of many Mesoamerican myths.

While popular accounts claim it was necessary to have a daily sacrifice, sacrifices were only done on festive days. There were 18 especially holy festive days, and only one of them was dedicated to Huitzilopochtli.

Every 52 years, the Nahuas feared the world would end as the other four creations of their legends had. Under Tlacaelel, Aztecs believed that they could give strength to Huitzilopochtli with human blood and thereby postpone the end of the world, at least for another 52 years

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

That is because you are falling victim to a logical fallacy.
This is a pretty complicated fallacy.
So pay close attention and put your thinking cap on.

You fell victim to the conjunction fallacy.

This happens when a combination of two specific events happening together is perceived as more likely than one general event happening alone.

Let me put it this way...
You stated that the altar was used for worship and where human sacrifices occurred as evidenced by blood on the obsidian knife.
The probability of two events occurring together to form an assumed event is much less likely than the probability that each general event happened alone.
It is much more probable that an alter existed that was used for worship and then an obsidian knife with blood on it existed close to the alter, but they have nothing to do with one another.

Each layer of assumption that you add to two general events drastically lowers the probability that it occurred.

Thus, the conjunction fallacy.

It's cool man. We were never taught how to think logically and employ reason.

There's even codexes depicting human sacrifices.

No... You are assuming that what you are seeing is a human sacrifice.

All you are looking at is a pictogram.

edit on 21/7/2012 by kyviecaldges because: (no reason given)

Should I ignore everything you said because you used Wikipedia.? Lucky for you I'm familiar with the conjunction fallacy.

The probability of 1 thing happening is never greater then the probability of 2 things happening but when additional related conjucts are added the probablility rises to the point where the conjunction fallacy is rendered invalidated. It's like neuroscience, how many MRI machines and lab coats do I need to find in a HOSPITAL to assume doctors are taking pictures of peoples brains.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

The probability of 1 thing happening is never greater then the probability of 2 things happening but when additional related conjucts are added the probablility rises to the point where the conjunction fallacy is rendered invalidated. It's like neuroscience, how many MRI machines and lab coats do I need to find in a HOSPITAL to assume doctors are taking pictures of peoples brains.

I don't even know why I try.

No matter how many different ways you try to convince yourself that you didn't fall prey to a logical fallacy...
You continue to base your belief on it.

You are not fooling anyone.

Just so you know... An MRI can be used by any type of doctor that wears a lab coat.
I would say that your example could likely be orthopedics, cardiology, oncology...
And an MRI is specific to a hospital, but this doesn't even matter.
This is nothing like the original comment because the only pieces of evidence in your original comment, the altar and obsidian knife, are both most definitely mutually exclusive.
The obsidian knife had many uses.

You have committed yet ANOTHER logical fallacy- the false comparison aka the arugment from analogy.
(Criticize wikipedia all you would like, but you haven't proved that the information is wrong and you are committing yet ANOTHER logical fallacy... the argument ad hominem.)

While the altar is generally accepted as being used for religious ceremony, we don't know what the ceremony was.
The only proof that we have that describes Aztec religious ritual is obviously biased.

I have already discussed this... at length... I would suggest actually reading the thread.

An obsidian knife was used for hunting, offense, defense, etc... etc...

Not at all like finding an MRI in a hospital with lab coat and assuming neuroscience was taking place.
The false analogy.
(BTW... you were probably thinking about an fMRI specifically, which is used to measure blood flow in the brain, rather than a simple MRI. Either way you still committed numerous logical fallacies, but for future reference I thought that you should know.)

reply to post by Astyanax

You're using it wrong. It is used to resolve the ambiguous connexion between two nouns, not to separate a qualifying adjective from the series of nouns that follows it.

Wrong.(at least my use of the oxford comma)

The serial comma (also known as the Oxford comma or Harvard comma, and sometimes referred to as the series comma) is the comma used immediately before a coordinating conjunction (usually and or or, and sometimes nor) preceding the final item in a list of three or more items.

link to source

The reason that it is used in a list of three or more items is because it clarifies a distinct separation between each of the three items.
It does resolve ambiguity issues, thus my use of it.

If I had not used the adjective stone to describe pyramid then you would have an argument; however, because I used adjectives for the first two nouns in the list, and I did not use an adjective for the last noun in list-
I used the oxford comma to denote three distinctly separate items.

See my comment on the canoes not being made out of stone.

Speaking as a professional writer and editor, I would call your writing style sophomoric, bombastic and confused.

Speaking as the King of the World, I would call your arguments paltry, insignificant, and trivial.

(Do you think that I am the King of the World? Do you think that I believe that you are a professional writer and editor?)
We both know the truth.

I'll take natives over the vatican any day of the week.
ANY day of the week.

good post.

even the white mans God had Human Sacrifice in the Old days.

reply to post by kyviecaldges



I'm pretty sure credibility takes precedence over your fallacy in scholarly circles. Lmao, it's obvious you know nothing about Mesoamerican culture, but if you dismiss the physical evidence, you MUST know that pre-colonial primary sources exist. Otherwise you wouldn't be engaging me in this garrulous argument over "proper" discourse. Since most of the Aztec records were destroyed, writing from other interacting cultures and the previous Mayans validate that human sacrifice was practiced.

Even the Latin Manuscripts match with discoveries within temple walls, which is why human sacrifice is WIDELY accepted. Also study of bones found in mass graves show signs of brutal deaths in the manner of sacrifice by removing the Heart. Everything isn't always a conspiracy bro.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by kyviecaldges

 

I'm pretty sure credibility takes precedence over your fallacy in scholarly circles. Lmao, it's obvious you know nothing about Mesoamerican culture, but if you dismiss the physical evidence, you MUST know that pre-colonial primary sources exist. Otherwise you wouldn't be engaging me in this garrulous argument over "proper" discourse. Since most of the Aztec records were destroyed, writing from other interacting cultures and the previous Mayans validate that human sacrifice was practiced.

Even the Latin Manuscripts match with discoveries within temple walls, which is why human sacrifice is WIDELY accepted. Also study of bones found in mass graves show signs of brutal deaths in the manner of sacrifice by removing the Heart. Everything isn't always a conspiracy bro.

This has nothing to do with a conspiracy.

This has everything to do with logic and reason.
The one thing that I have repeated over and over and over is that the rules for accepted validity have been violated to an absurd degree regarding the correct history of the Aztecs.

It seems as is if someone with letters beside their name can brainwash you into believing what they say, lock, stock and barrel.
This is why research is repeated and validated.
It is well known that the Vatican has the power and authority to pressure historians into conforming research to match the church approved version of history.
I have provided links to prove this.
Take time to read the thread and you will see.

Basically your last post simply states that the rules of logic and reason don't apply here because somebody told you that I am wrong.
So I need to get over it.

But what exactly am I wrong about?
People keep accusing me of being wrong, but no one can provide me with evidence contradicting anything that I have stated.
The best that you can do is post the opinion of someone else, which I have shown to be clearly biased.

I don't know if this urge to try and insult me for pointing out reasoning flaws is due to humiliation or what, but so many seemingly rational people fall into emotional tirades when proven logically faulty.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by kyviecaldges

 

I'm pretty sure credibility takes precedence over your fallacy in scholarly circles. Lmao, it's obvious you know nothing about Mesoamerican culture, but if you dismiss the physical evidence, you MUST know that pre-colonial primary sources exist. Otherwise you wouldn't be engaging me in this garrulous argument over "proper" discourse. Since most of the Aztec records were destroyed, writing from other interacting cultures and the previous Mayans validate that human sacrifice was practiced.

Even the Latin Manuscripts match with discoveries within temple walls, which is why human sacrifice is WIDELY accepted. Also study of bones found in mass graves show signs of brutal deaths in the manner of sacrifice by removing the Heart. Everything isn't always a conspiracy bro.

It is well known that the Vatican has the power and authority to pressure historians into conforming research to match the church approved version of history.
I have provided links to prove this.

...

But what exactly am I wrong about?
People keep accusing me of being wrong, but no one can provide me with evidence contradicting anything that I have stated.
The best that you can do is post the opinion of someone else, which I have shown to be clearly biased.

You just defined the word conspiracy. The Vatican? That must be a mighty good Dan Brown novel.

And hey it's okay to be counterintuitive but not dead ass wrong.!

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

You just defined the word conspiracy. The Vatican? That must be a mighty good Dan Brown novel.

And hey it's okay to be counterintuitive but not dead ass wrong.!

Since you are clearly unable to define the word conspiracy, let me help you.

an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

link to source

The key to a conspiracy is secrecy.

As I said in my previous post the machinations of the Vatican in keeping the status quo version of history kosher with the Vatican approved version are widely known.

If they were not widely known then I would not be able to provide evidence.

Your Dan Brown comment is yet ANOTHER logical fallacy.
The appeal to ridicule.

I am beginning to suspect that you might have either skipped school the day that they taught logic or they didn't believe in logic where you were educated.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by SheopleNation

Methinks you got your feelings hurt.

Oh really? Well me thinks that you're mistaken. Again, just more reckless speculation. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by kyviecaldges

Wrong.(at least my use of the oxford comma)

Quite so. I'm glad we agree on this. Very sporting of you to debunk yourself with the Wikipedia reference, I must say.

Do you think that I am the King of the World?

There, there, of course you are. Hush now.

Do you think that I believe that you are a professional writer and editor?

I have already explained that I am not interested in correcting your ideas.

reply to post by Astyanax


You really lack reading comprehension skills don't you.

You were wrong about your definition of the Oxford comma concerning how I used it.

That is why I posted an link to show this to you, but this doesn't matter...

Because you are lowering yourself to the one thing that no one but the most worthless posters do here at ATS.

You seem to think that by criticizing someone's syntax you are winning an argument and the only thing that are doing is successfully looking very desperate.
Like at least 99% of the other people who come here, I come here to challenge actual arguments and I put effort into trying to understand what is being communicated.

Pitiful mate.
Seriously pitiful.

reply to post by Alexander2533


Greta thread, i think this theory is quite good indeed, the spanish and every connial empire for that matter have been telling disgusting lies about the people they conquer for thousands of years and this is still happening today.

They make someone look like a monster so that it will be ok to kill them. #us government

reply to post by mikegrouchy


That was arguably the most ignorant comment I've ever read on this site, you really believe everything published to us is the truth?

Why do you think we are only allowed to see translations of the old testament, popol vuh etc while the source documents are never published and kept in secrecy. Because they are not revealing us the truth, they also make idiots like you think that the spanish soldiers destroyed everything they found because of religion or to find gold but there is so much more behind these published stories.

stop being ignorant my friend, that is why this site exists.

I will pray for you, poor soul.

reply to post by mikegrouchy


Just wanted to point out that...

There was a profusely practiced sacrifice in which no one died. The person making the sacrifice would make a small cut and simply bleed a little for his god. Almost all sacrifices of blood came in this form. That is what the picture you are showing depicts. Their hands are the clue. They are willingly offering small amounts of blood. It is exactly like what was done each night when the fire from the central temple was passed through out the capital and lit the fires of each home. Every home gave a little blood to their God and gave it to the fire. In this way the direct effect of their Gods struggle to bring them light was appreciated each day.

They would bleed onto the stairs of their temples. That was enough to feed the Gods. The taking of a person's ritual "magic" was the purpose behind the more brutal sacrifices. Again it is hard to tell what the customs were before the Aztec leader and his second in command changed their history and customs for a more violent form of worship and interpretation.

The willing sacrifice of the leaders for their people was done so as to avoid power struggles between kings and their successor. There was no dispute over control since the ruler was made into a sacrifice for his people and his God. They also avoided issues of succession and civil war this way. Perhaps an attempt at population control resulted in the increase of mortal sacrifices. Perhaps the reformists were bat isht crazy.

The fact is that since they erased their history and then we erased their revised version....it is a complete lie to say we can be certain of much about how frequent in their history and to what degree or purpose they sacrificed people.

Maybe a boat of Sumerians or Babylonians arrived and taught them how to be cannibals like their pagan priests were at the time. That is where we get our word cannibal. The Babylonian high priests ,the Peter ( great interpreter) were forced to eat the flesh of their human sacrifices too.
The word for priest in Babylonian is Cahna-Bal.

Most cultures had at one point or another the offering of blood without mortal death.