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Is Jesus the only way to God?

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posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Look to yourself and the people around you if you want to be a better person. Not entities that may or may not exist. You can't base reality on something unproven. Isn't wise.





posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

. . . billions of people may not have anything to eat, last night, OR tomorrow, and they certainly have nothing to laugh about . . .
That all becomes irrelevant when "heaven is coming".
I think it would be better to think about heaven being something we are responsible for, having been given the tools to bring it about.
It's a sort of trap people fall into, this not caring because someone else is going to do it. That sort of thinking is not what traditional Christianity was about, and it is a relatively recent shift towards that sort of thinking that has been planted into the religion to weaken society leading to the downfall of civilization and the takeover by an external political entity.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


t's a sort of trap people fall into, this not caring because someone else is going to do it. That sort of thinking is not what traditional Christianity was about, and it is a relatively recent shift towards that sort of thinking that has been planted into the religion to weaken society leading to the downfall of civilization and the takeover by an external political entity.

Agreed. But you say it's "a relatively recent shift"? How do you mean? Sorry, not following. Which sort of thinking is the weakening one? I think you're referring to the lip service model of folks who have plenty and step aside, who think that spouting scripture and pointing to Jesus as the hero, "tithing" at church and belonging to a charitable organization is "enough." Yes, sitting back and expecting someone else to take care of it, but not contributing anything to that cause except the token tithe and lip service.

What really troubles me is the "it's never going to change" attitude, that, to me, is a person who has no real reason to want it to change, because they are completely comfortable with things in their own lives.

I'm flabbergasted. Very disturbing.
edit on 22-7-2012 by wildtimes because: syntax and clarity

EDIT TO ADD:
I'm signing off. Going to go finish volume one of the Hunger Games. @ Dee, if you're reading this, you might give that book a shot. It might clear your thinking up....or....since you live in the "Capitol" as it's called in the book, it might not.
edit on 22-7-2012 by wildtimes because: Gday, everyone. Remember to breathe!



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by jhill76
 


Not to stir the pot and draw out the usual anti-Islam suspects (though I have a feeling it will happen), but to answer your question from an Islamic standpoint: Most Muslims believe that if Jesus really did make this statement (we question the authenticity of the Bible) then it should be taken in the historical context. He was speaking to the Jews and he specifically said many times "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

So it seems he was sent to preach to the children of Israel, not the whole world. He was sent to reform the way that Jews were worshipping the One God, to correct their corruptions. Muhammad was sent to spread the message to the whole world.
that's an interesting view point and i appreciate you sharing it. in a way i personally believe that Jesus is indeed the only way in sense of he showed people the right way to live and how to treat and respect your fellow man. he opened up the spiritual side of people. i'm not very familiar at all with the teachings of Muhammad as i have grown up a christian my entire life, but i would like to learn more of that view point.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 

But you say it's "a relatively recent shift"? How do you mean? Sorry, not following. Which sort of thinking is the weakening one?
I wasn't too clear, sorry, about what I meant.
America was the place of the millennium, and then the idea was introduced and promoted (by the ever-present TPTB) that the millennium has been rescheduled for in heaven and we get there by way of rapture. Gone apparently is the traditional view that the millennium happens right here and we are to bring it about ourselves.
When you were very young, do you remember there ever being preached in church the idea of an imminent rapture?



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


When you were very young, do you remember there ever being preached in church the idea of an imminent rapture?

No.



edit on 22-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by solongandgoodnight

Originally posted by CoolerAbdullah786
reply to post by jhill76
 


Not to stir the pot and draw out the usual anti-Islam suspects (though I have a feeling it will happen), but to answer your question from an Islamic standpoint: Most Muslims believe that if Jesus really did make this statement (we question the authenticity of the Bible) then it should be taken in the historical context. He was speaking to the Jews and he specifically said many times "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

So it seems he was sent to preach to the children of Israel, not the whole world. He was sent to reform the way that Jews were worshipping the One God, to correct their corruptions. Muhammad was sent to spread the message to the whole world.
that's an interesting view point and i appreciate you sharing it. in a way i personally believe that Jesus is indeed the only way in sense of he showed people the right way to live and how to treat and respect your fellow man. he opened up the spiritual side of people. i'm not very familiar at all with the teachings of Muhammad as i have grown up a christian my entire life, but i would like to learn more of that view point.


well, doing some research on Muhammad and how he received the recitation (known by the bulk of the world as the Koran) i believe he was approached by an "angel", and given some very common sense guidelines on how to conduct himself when dealing with other people in the region...

the back story to it was that he was a poor man, who gained favor with a rich woman, who desired and married him...her family found that he, in spite of no formal education, was a wizard with commerce...so he made them wealthy, he was a boon to business...

later he began to have these visitations from an "angel" who took him places, and showed him things, visions and taught him the words he should recite, which scribes later wrote into the Koran...

from what i have studied, the spirit of what was written was in the same thread as our constitution in America...like it or not...it is very much tailored to that specific time, and it is common sense...and in spite of what some claim, is very civilized...there are actually more passages giving guidelines on how to be humane than about how to fight...but most only cite the incorrect translations that give extremists their excuse to kill people...

yes, he was living in a hostile environment, and because he was monotheistic, he had to face oppression and ill treatment from idolaters, who did not like him and his family by marriage encroaching on their business in mecca...so what to do? he was told to treat them with respect unless mistreated, basically, and when they started persecuting him and his people, then and only then they retaliated...for a time this seemed to work until they drove his clan to Medina and hunted him down...then they had a last stand and bottle-necked the raiding parties and defeated them...but only after being pushed into a corner...

later, after he died, his family fought over who should succeed him, even though i would wager he would not have wished that...and that is where Islam began to go down the wrong path...once the ottoman Turks took the "religion" over and began forcing it on people, and creating stories (called the hadith) it became what it is today...and also became ripe for abuse and used as a tool of oppression...

i would say that the majority of Muslims do try to live at peace with others...they believe in Jesus, and even some believe he will return again...however i do believe that mainstream Islam has fallen to the same fate as all other religions, and is now rife with corruption and has strayed far from its original intent...

now there is a huge movement called the "god alone" movement, which adheres strictly to the Koran, and shuns the hadith...they also welcome insight from the bible and other religions...but this is not what is being pushed on Islam right now...what is being pushed on it is an extremest version that has been the driving force behind the Arab Spring movement...one that would hunt down and persecute anyone outside of the Islamic persuasion...

they tried to stop this in Egypt during the ousting of Mubarak, but even though groups of Christians and Muslims both came together to protect each other from the Muslim brotherhood, they could not contain the greater frenzy that was taking over the nation once the brotherhood took control of the government...and i believe the Muslim "revival" is being used to drive a bigger wedge between all factions in the region, and create further destabilization so the PTB (NWO) can walk in with their solution for peace...
edit on 22-7-2012 by studythem1 because: grammar



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 




well, doing some research on Muhammad and how he received the recitation (known by the bulk of the world as the Koran) i believe he was approached by an "angel", and given some very common sense guidelines on how to conduct himself when dealing with other people in the region...


Yes, arc Gabriel.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


When you were very young, do you remember there ever being preached in church the idea of an imminent rapture?

No.



edit on 22-7-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)


LOL... sorry but that was funny...because so many assume that everyone has heard of the rapture from a young age in church...

not everyone was taught the rapture is imminent or that it will even occur...the rapture is based off of a bunch of loosely strung scriptures, and the interpretation of those together is a huge jump to conclusions...as are many of the doctrines of the false version of Christianity...

but this is precisely the kind of mentality that has corrupted Christianity... even from the earliest days...its called laziness...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 08:26 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 




What really troubles me is the "it's never going to change" attitude, that, to me, is a person who has no real reason to want it to change, because they are completely comfortable with things in their own lives.


This is true, this is why the world is the way it is. Others look for another to invoke that change, without trying to invoke change themselves.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by autowrench
 




How is it that you know this, and did you know it from the beginning


Correct. I do not channel or speak.

So....did you make it up? Please elaborate. It seems to me there are a lot of Christians who TALK like they were there in first person, or had a scribe following the man around, writing down everything. You made you statement as facts. No disclaimer, no, "in my opinion," no "this is what I think..."



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 




So....did you make it up? Please elaborate. It seems to me there are a lot of Christians who TALK like they were there in first person, or had a scribe following the man around, writing down everything. You made you statement as facts. No disclaimer, no, "in my opinion," no "this is what I think..."


No, I did not make it up, what I stated is fact. *I am also not a Christian. I do not hold to any classifications of mans view on Father.

We will have to speak on private message on this, this is not for the main boards.
edit on 22-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by studythem1
 




well, doing some research on Muhammad and how he received the recitation (known by the bulk of the world as the Koran) i believe he was approached by an "angel", and given some very common sense guidelines on how to conduct himself when dealing with other people in the region...


Yes, arc Gabriel.



they called him Jebril...he also showed Muhammad the tree of life, and the river of life...and the companions in that dimension who tend to the garden...many have speculated that the companions were sexual companions, but this is not what the text says, only the hadith speculate that this is what the companions were for, which is false...

he was also told of the guardians...or djinn...which is a broad term, since they could be good or bad, higher or lower...as you say...

but as with any seer, or prophet, they saw things they have no context to compare to, so the true meaning is lost somewhat when they attempt to describe it to those who were not present...

the tree of life was also chronicled in many older traditions that were labeled by the church as heresy or pagan...but this only points to the fact that they were under the influence of those who want to enslave us all with lies...those who would hide the truth...



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:40 PM
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reply to post by studythem1
 




they called him Jebril...


Yes, many call many of the arcs many different names. But, his name is Gabriel as Father has given.



but as with any seer, or prophet, they saw things they have no context to compare to, so the true meaning is lost somewhat when they attempt to describe it to those who were not present...


I agree, and many take what is written as literal, word for word. Like did Jesus die on a cross? No.



posted on Jul, 22 2012 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by studythem1
 




they called him Jebril...


Yes, many call many of the arcs many different names. But, his name is Gabriel as Father has given.



but as with any seer, or prophet, they saw things they have no context to compare to, so the true meaning is lost somewhat when they attempt to describe it to those who were not present...


I agree, and many take what is written as literal, word for word. Like did Jesus die on a cross? No.


i remember Muhammad saying that he only appeared to be dead...and many Muslim scholars also point out that this is the key to understanding the miracle of Christ...it is more miraculous to not die on a cross than to die in 4 hours...proving that those who were evil intended to make him a blood sacrifice, but instead their plans were foiled...he did not die, he was wounded yes, but recovered under the hand of Joseph of aramathea...he appeared dead...

crucifixion takes days to complete, and 4 hours is not enough time to kill by crucifixion...

the greater miracle was he was taken up...much like Elijah and Enoch... and all will return

there are some Muslim scholars who believe that Elijah and Enoch will return and be the two witnesses, who are killed in the last days as a sign...but this is speculation and yet to be proven...

i believe they were taken up by something similar to what Ezekiel witnessed...the wheel within the wheel...which was something he had no context to compare to...but being that we understand more than they did about what is possible, i believe it was some sort of craft or technology that we do not have...however this is also speculation, and also yet to be seen...



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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I see this thread is still kicking. It appears to be down to three things

1. You either believe the Bible is the Word of God or you do not.

2. You either believe that Jesus was God in the Flesh or He was an emissary/teacher/servant of God/non-existent (for the atheist roaming)

3. Trying to figure out wth Jhill is. Personally i'm leaning towards ex-Jehovas Witness who thinks he is an angel or something like it or that he is some celestial V.I.P. here on a mission. Like James Bond or something.

While I find it interesting I see only a few people here are basing their ideas in this matter on anything remotely historical even by secular standards. The rest have created some sort of fantasy that doesn't conform to any standard ( and you are free to do so just noting this) or in other words a lot of guess work.

I still dont see how you can have any knowledge of Christ like you claim Jhill that wasnt influenced by the Bible. explain why Christ confirms the scriptures? explain why God does not have the ability to keep his word in tact? Why didnt he just do a rewind when they began corrupting it? Why didnt one of the soldiers (because they are faster) run in there and quickly change it back?

Again this is the reason why the word is important. The lord passed things down to people in the OT and the word is not any different. When you say it has been corrupted or changed etc you open yourself up to all kinds of fantasy that lead to apostasy and people thinking that God's plan is not sufficient for them, they have to add more to it so that they can have "special new agey powers" or become Gods themselves. This is why Jesus said he IS the way because without him man becomes a godless lover of self.
edit on 23-7-2012 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




I still dont see how you can have any knowledge of Christ like you claim Jhill that wasnt influenced by the Bible. explain why Christ confirms the scriptures? explain why God does not have the ability to keep his word in tact? Why didnt he just do a rewind when they began corrupting it? Why didnt one of the soldiers (because they are faster) run in there and quickly change it back?


You seem to think Father will have his hand in everything, with the statement of keeping his word intact. I cannot speak for Father on that one. But, that's like asking, why didn't Father prevent 9/11, why didn't Father keep my aunt from dying, etc.

The bible is not his word 100%, it is a blueprint to live life, that is it. If you want his word, you have to have a direct relationship with him. He will confirm what you need to know by his spirit that will dwell within.

Soldiers are there for protection only, they do not deal in those matters.



Personally i'm leaning towards ex-Jehovas Witness who thinks he is an angel or something like it


As I have stated before, I do not hold to any of mans classifications of views on Father. I state what is, it is up to you what you do with it. My task is not to get anyone to believe. I do feel compelled to answer questions asked of me, this is why it keeps continuing.



Again this is the reason why the word is important. The lord passed things down to people in the OT and the word is not any different. When you say it has been corrupted or changed etc you open yourself up to all kinds of fantasy that lead to apostasy and people thinking that God's plan is not sufficient for them, they have to add more to it so that they can have "special new agey powers" or become Gods themselves. This is why Jesus said he IS the way because without him man becomes a godless lover of self.


Not entirely. There are some here, who "saw" the events play out, and know some things that are written, are different from what actually took place. You have what is written, and you can't confirm this, so this is why you think the way you do on this matter.



I still dont see how you can have any knowledge of Christ like you claim Jhill that wasnt influenced by the Bible.


A mystery within itself.
edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:36 AM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Another instance of fantasy from The Enigma.............

Chris White / nowheretorun1984 has some reason people might want to quit using the bible changing/inaccuracy argument.



and another



and I have no rebuttal for the "take my word for it" fantastic ravings you spew but I am sure they do not align with scripture.



edit on 23-7-2012 by NihilistSanta because: links



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by jhill76

edit on 23-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



More contradictions from you. You use scripture to justify your views when it suits you. Paul's thoughts were inspired (or at least considered to be enough in the right direction that God did not need to do a rewind
:
)

Besides you have backed up very little you have said so it is basically just your thoughts on the matter so according to you not valid. What you have backed up comes from the same book you claim isn't telling us what we need to know from our creator.



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