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Is Jesus the only way to God?

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posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




So, JHill, Jesus warned us that blasphemy against him was forgivable, but blasphemy against the Holy Ghost was not and when you discredit the workings and teachings of the disciples, that's exactly what you do. For most of them even said that it was through the Holy Ghost that they were even speaking in the first place!


I asked for what did Jesus say, the authoritative source, and you resort to this? I am not asking about any other man. Your stance on blasphemy is wrong, by what you have written. Because I want to hear what Jesus had to say is not blasphemy.




posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 




Many resort to this tactic, when they can't provide what is asked of them. Any time someone questions a Christian, they resort to blaming these things on Satan.

I do not want to know anything else besides what I asked of you to provide. If you can not do that, just admit it. Don't attack my questions.


There's a reason the Bible said we needed the Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to decipher the teachings of Christ in the first place.

I'm sure you don't want to know or understand what I'm saying.

According to the Bible, you will be judged for it.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




There's a reason the Bible said we needed the Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to decipher the teachings of Christ in the first place.


What is there to decipher? Jesus spoke plainly, and when he did speak in parables, he explained himself. There is no way to misinterpret my question against his answers:

Do you have to profess him as your savior to enter heaven?

You know this is not a requirement stated by him, but by others. If you follow the teachings of others on this aspect, just admit that, but don't attack me for asking.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by stupid girl

Originally posted by jhill76
I am asking, can you follow his teachings, and still get into heaven? I never said not to believe the other stuff, I am asking just this.


ffs, the answer is an infinite loop of perception.

which came first? the chicken or the egg?

YOU ARE ASKING: Can a person follow the teachings of Jesus, just His teachings, the words that are in red in the New Testament, and still get in through the back door of heaven.

THE ANSWER IS: It depends on what you consider His teachings to be. BUT TECHNICALLY THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES.

Why would the technical answer be YES?
Because JESUS' SAID YOU HAD TO ACCEPT HIS DEATH AS ATONEMENT FOR YOUR SINS.

If you are "following Jesus' teachings" then, by default through what His teachings entail, you are accepting Him and acknowledging Him for everything He stands for, represents and fulfilled according to the Word of God.

Now, the non-technical answer would be NO.
Following Jesus' teachings in the sole effort to model yourself after Him is still a vain attempt at trying to be "good" and save yourself.

You cannot save yourself no matter how "good" you try to be NOR no matter what standard of "good" you try to model yourself after.

Salvation through Jesus is just, fair and equal to all human beings on the face of the planet because FORGIVENESS can cross all boundaries, circumstances, ages, time, eras, generations, everything.

As far as water baptism, I don't know.
I know that the man who hung on the cross next to Jesus went to Heaven because Jesus told Him that He would see Him in paradise.
WHY??
BECAUSE HE ACCEPTED JESUS' FORGIVENESS WHILE HE WAS HANGIN' THERE.
Nobody climbed up that cross and sprinkled water or slathered olive oil on his face.
He went to heaven because Jesus said so.

I do not believe that infants or retarded people will be held accountable for sin they have no ability to comprehend.

I believe that baptism is important and should most definitely be something all believers make an effort to do.
Jesus was baptized, so it's safe to say that He thought it was important.
However, I do not believe that someone who lived a life of sin, who ends up dying in a car crash and in the last brief moments of their life has an epiphany of Truth and cries out for mercy will be ignored.



When you mentioned the others on the cross I had an epiphany. The OP ask if it is necessary to confess a belief in Christ as our savior or if living "Christ like" is sufficient. Well it occurred to me that what Stupid Girl says is very valid here. One was a thief the other a murderer so in otherwords they did not live a "Christ like" life or adhere to his teachings yet salvation was given (given by whom? Christ obviously which implies he has divine authority to do so) they also did not have an opportunity to live out these teachings after words yet we can see by the testimony given that confessing a belief in Christ was sufficient for salvation without works.

I feel that the logic of the OP is flawed because he ask for Jesus words and refuses to look at his actions, he also refuses to accept the statements from his disciples implying that this is not the actual teachings from Christ yet claims that he himself is host to some divine revelation so obviously OP feels that god does reveal himself and his plans to others.

My question to OP is if you are able to be given revelations then how come the revelations of Christ closest followers are not as valid? Their proximity to the creator and our savior gives more weight to their words than your own. If their words are to be accepted as valid though then perhaps you could save yourself a lot of trouble and confusion by looking to the book of revelation. Every Knee shall bow. Why would this be OP?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76

I asked for what did Jesus say, the authoritative source, and you resort to this? I am not asking about any other man. Your stance on blasphemy is wrong, by what you have written. Because I want to hear what Jesus had to say is not blasphemy.


Why do you think Jesus had all of the disciples wait until after his death and resurrection before he had them go out and spread the Word?

He wanted witnesses. That's why he also made them witnesses to the Holy Ghost after his own (Jesus') baptism.

Jesus made it very clear that it was through the work of the Holy Ghost/Spirit that his teachings would live on and that the truth would be revealed!



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 




You know this is not a requirement stated by him, but by others. If you follow the teachings of others on this aspect, just admit that, but don't attack me for asking.


I already listed the requirements as stated by Jesus, you just didn't care to acknowledge them.

Yes, I also follow the teachings of the disciples as outlined in the Bible.

Now, you tell us why you don't think that the "others" or disciples were filled with God's Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to speak on his behalf?
edit on 20-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




I feel that the logic of the OP is flawed because he ask for Jesus words and refuses to look at his actions, he also refuses to accept the statements from his disciples implying that this is not the actual teachings from Christ yet claims that he himself is host to some divine revelation so obviously OP feels that god does reveal himself and his plans to others.


My logic is flawed, because I ask a question based on the teachings of Christianity all across the World? Paul was not his disciple, many others have quoted him. What does me have to do with this? I am asking for you to provide Jesus's word on him saying this is a requirement, the source. Why would I accept the interpretation of another, even if those are his disciples?



My question to OP is if you are able to be given revelations then how come the revelations of Christ closest followers are not as valid? Their proximity to the creator and our savior gives more weight to their words than your own. If their words are to be accepted as valid though then perhaps you could save yourself a lot of trouble and confusion by looking to the book of revelation. Every Knee shall bow. Why would this be OP?


I am not giving any revelations in me asking my question. Why are you bringing this into the equation, when it holds no weight. If I came on here, saying this is what it is, then you would have an argument. But, I raised a question, and none seem to want to address the direct question with scripture, but try and discredit me from asking. I see this happens a lot anywhere in the world.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




Jesus made it very clear that it was through the work of the Holy Ghost/Spirit that his teachings would live on and that the truth would be revealed!


But, I am not refuting any of this. Because I do not want to discuss this, you assume I am refuting it. I want my question answered, this is why I am going to keep addressing my question and not other items.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




Now, you tell us why you don't think that the "others" or disciples were filled with God's Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to speak on his behalf?


Can you quote me as saying this? You drew this conclusion, because I asked only for Jesus's answer.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Here you go!

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now remember, in John 6:36, not everyone who has seen or sees him will believe in him.

This is the key!



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jhill76
 


Here you go!

John 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now remember, in John 6:36, not everyone who has seen or sees him will believe in him.

This is the key!


Correct, on your answer to this scripture. But, does this say you must confess he is your Savior as a requirement to enter into the gates? Belief in him and his work, and confessing him as your savior is two different things.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




I feel that the logic of the OP is flawed because he ask for Jesus words and refuses to look at his actions, he also refuses to accept the statements from his disciples implying that this is not the actual teachings from Christ yet claims that he himself is host to some divine revelation so obviously OP feels that god does reveal himself and his plans to others.


My logic is flawed, because I ask a question based on the teachings of Christianity all across the World? Paul was not his disciple, many others have quoted him. What does me have to do with this? I am asking for you to provide Jesus's word on him saying this is a requirement, the source. Why would I accept the interpretation of another, even if those are his disciples?



My question to OP is if you are able to be given revelations then how come the revelations of Christ closest followers are not as valid? Their proximity to the creator and our savior gives more weight to their words than your own. If their words are to be accepted as valid though then perhaps you could save yourself a lot of trouble and confusion by looking to the book of revelation. Every Knee shall bow. Why would this be OP?


I am not giving any revelations in me asking my question. Why are you bringing this into the equation, when it holds no weight. If I came on here, saying this is what it is, then you would have an argument. But, I raised a question, and none seem to want to address the direct question with scripture, but try and discredit me from asking. I see this happens a lot anywhere in the world.


No friend you have hinted at revelations/experiences in your life yet you attempt to discredit Jesus closest followers own revelations. You are not being attacked for asking a question but you are being asked to present a view that is logical. What makes you any different than Paul? What is your basis for believing that Paul is not valid in this discussion? You even compared your experience to that of Paul earlier so either you are being intellectually dishonest, you are attempting to present yourself as some inheritor of divine knowledge and are trying to pose some zen like question that you imply has no answer. You ask for Christ words but the entirety of the bible is dedicated to Christ as divinely inspired so in essence it is all Christ words whether the lettering is red or not.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76


Can you quote me as saying this? You drew this conclusion, because I asked only for Jesus's answer.


Are you really going to try and tell us now that you have NEVER claimed that anything written in the Bible by anyone other than Jesus was wrong??

I distinctly remember a conversation between you and NOTurTypical about what was really "meant" in the book of Ezekiel and you claimed that the message was misinterpreted by the author of Ezekiel!

Are you denying that?

Don't give me some B.S. that the author of Ezekiel got it wrong because he mistranslated what a disciple said in the first place. I'm not buying it. The Bible as it stands is God breathed from the time it was written, not just spoken!!!



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




No friend you have hinted at revelations/experiences in your life yet you attempt to discredit Jesus closest followers own revelations.


I am not discrediting them, I said I wanted to know what Jesus had to say, not others interpretation. Why do you assume this?



What makes you any different than Paul? What is your basis for believing that Paul is not valid in this discussion? You even compared your experience to that of Paul earlier so either you are being intellectually dishonest, you are attempting to present yourself as some inheritor of divine knowledge and are trying to pose some zen like question that you imply has no answer.


You will need to ask Father how I am different from Paul, I will not give testimony on myself in this matter. I am not saying he is invalid. Others have used Paul as a reference. But, my question is posed as what did Jesus say, not what did others say. If I asked for what he said, why would others bring in items that another has stated?

I did not compare my experience at all. I used Paul as a reference so that you may know that a person can leave the body to be joined above. There is no comparison between me and Paul at all, in how one reaches above.



ou ask for Christ words but the entirety of the bible is dedicated to Christ as divinely inspired so in essence it is all Christ words whether the lettering is red or not.


This is incorrect. I will not begin to go down this road, there are many threads for this.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Now you are entering into the area where you are asking too many questions. That is what they call "blashpemy".

It happens to anyone who doesn't fall into the exact mold of each individual religion. Believe it or not, there are some factions of "Christians" who believe that you must not only profess a belief in Christ as God, but you must also be saved and born again in order to gain entrance into heaven. These groups do a bit more tweaking of the scripture to make things work for them.

I as a free thinker get accused and damned to hell on a regular occasion even though I believe in God and consider my self a the very least, a believer in Christ. If these bozo's are right, Heaven will be a very lonely place and the party will be in Pergetory. I'll bring the chips.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




No friend you have hinted at revelations/experiences in your life yet you attempt to discredit Jesus closest followers own revelations.


I am not discrediting them, I said I wanted to know what Jesus had to say, not others interpretation. Why do you assume this?



What makes you any different than Paul? What is your basis for believing that Paul is not valid in this discussion? You even compared your experience to that of Paul earlier so either you are being intellectually dishonest, you are attempting to present yourself as some inheritor of divine knowledge and are trying to pose some zen like question that you imply has no answer.


You will need to ask Father how I am different from Paul, I will not give testimony on myself in this matter. I am not saying he is invalid. Others have used Paul as a reference. But, my question is posed as what did Jesus say, not what did others say. If I asked for what he said, why would others bring in items that another has stated?

I did not compare my experience at all. I used Paul as a reference so that you may know that a person can leave the body to be joined above. There is no comparison between me and Paul at all, in how one reaches above.



ou ask for Christ words but the entirety of the bible is dedicated to Christ as divinely inspired so in essence it is all Christ words whether the lettering is red or not.


This is incorrect. I will not begin to go down this road, there are many threads for this.


So you believe Paul's words about how he left his body but you reject the things he said about Christ? I am really trying to understand your view but again the word contradiction comes to mind.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Deetermined
 




Are you really going to try and tell us now that you have NEVER claimed that anything written in the Bible by anyone other than Jesus was wrong??


You cannot use a different conversation and try to compare it with what I am asking here. They are two different conversations. Yes, there are some errors in the bible. How can you say there is not, when you do not see it from the perspective of when it was written?



Don't give me some B.S. that the author of Ezekiel got it wrong because he mistranslated what a disciple said in the first place. I'm not buying it. The Bible as it stands is God breathed from the time it was written, not just spoken!!!


Do you see your error in this? You are trying to use a different conversation in this thread. Ezekiel didn't speak to a disciple when he had his vision, but above. I don't even see how you said this?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by NihilistSanta
 




So you believe Paul's words about how he left his body but you reject the things he said about Christ?


I reference it, because I know it to be true on how he was taken above. Now, he teachings on Christ, this is one mans view, how can you take one man against what Jesus said? This is like only following your pastor in church.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


It is not one mans view. It is Gods view as revealed through Paul. Paul's fruit seem to have been good. Also its not like he is the only person in the bible to say what he says about Christ. Their words do not contradict unlike yours.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


So, tell us, JHill, what was it about Ezekiel's vision that was flawed and that he misunderstood or misinterpreted?



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