It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Is Jesus the only way to God?

page: 15
13
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 12:58 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 


Is it a conscious choice, or is he misled by his own understanding of things as presented by those he has learned from; or by what he has learned on his own?

I'll check back later; have to get back to work...
edit on 7/20/2012 by visualmiscreant because: added comment




posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 12:59 PM
link   
reply to post by stupid girl
 




Not that it really matters, because everyone who penned the Gospels knew there would be a mother-lode of people reading it.


You think Paul knew his letters would be read by the world over? He was in jail writing the letters to separate regions. He did not know it would be compiled into what we call the Bible today.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Actually, all it says is believing in him (his message that he gave forth), that's it. Jesus didn't say you have to attend church, get baptized, engage in communion, or any of the sort. But, you just say yes he did?


Where did I say you have to attend church, get baptized or engage in communion?

Yes, it takes believing in him. Believing in him required believing his message. Part of his message was that HE WAS THE MESSIAH!



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by jhill76
 


Is it a conscious choice, or is he misled by his own understanding of things as presented by those he has learned from; or by what he has learned on his own?


Whom are we referring to Father, Brother?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by MamaJ
 


All true. John 2:23-25 outlines the fact that Jesus does not need our testimony. Our hearts reveal the truth of the matter. As you say, there is no need to judge another, just speak the truth.


Absolutely!

Regardless of any message out there, each person's spirit will hear the message that it was meant to hear and receive.


Right. He is long-suffering and willing to go after the lost sheep. We are limiting ourselves as Christians to one life. This is not the case. We are born again, just as Jesus says. We must be born again.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Actually, all it says is believing in him (his message that he gave forth), that's it. Jesus didn't say you have to attend church, get baptized, engage in communion, or any of the sort. But, you just say yes he did?


Where did I say you have to attend church, get baptized or engage in communion?

Yes, it takes believing in him. Believing in him required believing his message. Part of his message was that HE WAS THE MESSIAH!


I said doing other things Christianity requires you to, and you said actually yes it does.

I did not say you can discount whom he was. I said simply believing in his message on how to treat others, and not engaging in sin, could you still get into heaven. Others keep bringing other aspects into this (whom he was, his sacrifice, etc.) I am not asking about that, I am strictly talking about can you imitate his life and get into heaven. You still haven't addresses my question.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:05 PM
link   

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by EnochWasRight
 

Good to see that you haven't left us. You certainly add to my understanding of things. There are many here who do.

(On topic)

Personally, I have seen two ways mentioned in the Bible. My understanding may be limited however..
There is the acceptance of Christ as your saviour, and
There is the living by the law; which has pretty much been described as impossible.

I have chosen Christ, who was sacrificed for me (and everyone else). Surely I have not followed the law by the letter, nor could I. If there is another way, I'm truly not interested in changing now; nor would I teach others that.

That's just me...


Right. Two ways. Galatians 3 reveals the key to faith and law. We miss this when the understanding of being born again into another life is missed. These words were for the generation that hear them and for us. We are one and the same.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We are free from the law, yet not free from its consequences until we are finally redeemed from this place. Since we are here, this has not happened yet. Hebrews 9:28 reveals when this happens.

Good words. Thank you for sharing them.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by EnochWasRight

Right. He is long-suffering and willing to go after the lost sheep. We are limiting ourselves as Christians to one life. This is not the case. We are born again, just as Jesus says. We must be born again.


I'm not sure entirely what you're saying.

Yes, we must be born again by way of the Holy Spirit, not by our flesh.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by visualmiscreant
 




There is the living by the law; which has pretty much been described as impossible.


This is what others will tell you is impossible, but it is not. Father said there was none righteous no not no one. Man can overcome, he just chooses not to. If man did, Brother wouldn't have had to come down.
edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



WTH.. JHILL!!

graaahhhhhhhshahaasarrrrggggghhhahahhahahahggggrrrrraaaaaahh............

Okay everyone, I am going to do an impression of someone on this thread and you all have to guess who it is:

Person: "The sky is blue and sometimes purple"
ATS: "So the sky is purple sometimes"
Person: "No, the sky is sometimes red with the blue"
ATS: "Right, blue and red make purple."
Person: "No, I said the sky is blue and only sometimes it is purple"
ATS: "And red. Sometimes."
Person: "No, I never said the sky was always red and purple"
ATS: "Right, you said sometimes...wait, what were we talking about?"



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:09 PM
link   
reply to post by jhill76
 





I said doing other things Christianity requires you to, and you said actually yes it does.


I'm not sure what you're talking about above.


I did not say you can discount whom he was. I said simply believing in his message on how to treat others, and not engaging in sin, could you still get into heaven. Others keep bringing other aspects into this (whom he was, his sacrifice, etc.) I am not asking about that, I am strictly talking about can you imitate his life and get into heaven. You still haven't addresses my question.


If we're strictly talking about imitating Christ as being the only way, I think I've already made that very clear.

NO! We have to believe the whole message, not just one aspect of it.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:13 PM
link   
reply to post by Deetermined
 




If we're strictly talking about imitating Christ as being the only way, I think I've already made that very clear. NO! We have to believe the whole message, not just one aspect of it.


I didn't say others don't believe in the whole message, you implied that. Christianity has many rules to follow, that Brother didn't say to do, Paul and the others said this, not him. I am asking, can you follow his teachings, and still get into heaven? I never said not to believe the other stuff, I am asking just this.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Deetermined
 




I'm not sure what you're talking about above.




Jhill76 That's good quotes, but it still does not say you must be a Christian and do the extra items Christianity requires you to do, to get you into heaven.

You Actually, I think it does. If you think otherwise, please point out using scripture. Thanks!


I don't see how you missed this, we just discussed this.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:16 PM
link   
reply to post by stupid girl
 


Still can't seem to address the comments I see? Can you give your view point on why man can't overcome? Do you think if man stayed faithful in the beginning, Jesus would have had to come down?

The bible clearly states, since man did what he did, Jesus had to be sent as a sacrifice.

But, I find humor in what you speak!
edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:21 PM
link   
Jesus only tried to show folks the issue of Enki and depart from Enlil/Yahweh/Allah.

So, in truth, Jesus isn't the way to a real theme for god.

Jesus was into the water and river culture god of ancient Sumeria, which then set up the river culture for Egypt.

Neither Enlil, nor Enki, should be considered god any more than Nimrod. All it was about is those trying to be kings trying to play god.


If you want to find anything close to god, go shake hands with mother nature. And you'll find nature doesn't pay much attention to humans, but you are supposed to learn from your surroundings.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by jhill76

I didn't say others don't believe in the whole message, you implied that. Christianity has many rules to follow, that Brother didn't say to do, Paul and the others said this, not him. I am asking, can you follow his teachings, and still get into heaven? I never said not to believe the other stuff, I am asking just this.


I think I might understand what you're saying, but I'm not entirely sure. Hopefully, my answer below will clarify it a little bit more.

Jesus may have taught us to love one another, to get baptized, to hold communion with one another, but He did not state that NOT doing these things would cause us to die in our sin.

The one thing that Jesus did tell people that would cause them to die in their sin was not believing that God sent him (Jesus) to be their MESSIAH!

Yes, the other things we were taught in following up on that belief (that Jesus was the Messiah) is important, but not imperative in order to not die in our sins.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:24 PM
link   
reply to post by MagnumOpus
 

Those names were made up by Zacharia Sitchen!



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:29 PM
link   
reply to post by Deetermined
 




The one thing that Jesus did tell people that would cause them to die in their sin was not believing that God sent him (Jesus) to be their MESSIAH!


Now, we get to the substance of the conversation.

So, others may follow this. Some, say Messiah is the Word made Flesh, not being a savior. So, can you explain why you equate messiah with Savior?

Everything hinges on that one word. This is why you have two groups. One who believes he is savior, another whom believes he was sent from above to give word, or word made flesh.
edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by jhill76
I am asking, can you follow his teachings, and still get into heaven? I never said not to believe the other stuff, I am asking just this.


ffs, the answer is an infinite loop of perception.

which came first? the chicken or the egg?

YOU ARE ASKING: Can a person follow the teachings of Jesus, just His teachings, the words that are in red in the New Testament, and still get in through the back door of heaven.

THE ANSWER IS: It depends on what you consider His teachings to be. BUT TECHNICALLY THE ANSWER WOULD BE YES.

Why would the technical answer be YES?
Because JESUS' SAID YOU HAD TO ACCEPT HIS DEATH AS ATONEMENT FOR YOUR SINS.

If you are "following Jesus' teachings" then, by default through what His teachings entail, you are accepting Him and acknowledging Him for everything He stands for, represents and fulfilled according to the Word of God.

Now, the non-technical answer would be NO.
Following Jesus' teachings in the sole effort to model yourself after Him is still a vain attempt at trying to be "good" and save yourself.

You cannot save yourself no matter how "good" you try to be NOR no matter what standard of "good" you try to model yourself after.

Salvation through Jesus is just, fair and equal to all human beings on the face of the planet because FORGIVENESS can cross all boundaries, circumstances, ages, time, eras, generations, everything.

As far as water baptism, I don't know.
I know that the man who hung on the cross next to Jesus went to Heaven because Jesus told Him that He would see Him in paradise.
WHY??
BECAUSE HE ACCEPTED JESUS' FORGIVENESS WHILE HE WAS HANGIN' THERE.
Nobody climbed up that cross and sprinkled water or slathered olive oil on his face.
He went to heaven because Jesus said so.

I do not believe that infants or retarded people will be held accountable for sin they have no ability to comprehend.

I believe that baptism is important and should most definitely be something all believers make an effort to do.
Jesus was baptized, so it's safe to say that He thought it was important.
However, I do not believe that someone who lived a life of sin, who ends up dying in a car crash and in the last brief moments of their life has an epiphany of Truth and cries out for mercy will be ignored.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:40 PM
link   
reply to post by stupid girl
 




the answer is an infinite loop of perception.


Yes, it is. Thank you for your answer. I think if others saw it like you saw it (my question), they would understand what I am getting at.


edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 01:44 PM
link   

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by stupid girl
 




the answer is an infinite loop of perception.


Yes, it is. Thank you for your answer. I think if others saw it like you saw it (my question), they would understand what I am getting at.


edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)


Do I get a gold star now?



new topics

top topics



 
13
<< 12  13  14    16  17  18 >>

log in

join