Is Jesus the only way to God?

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

May I ask what you are getting out of attempting to confuse people with statements that you yourself do not believe?

Look at what this thread has done? It caused others to think, to really pull out some meaty answers and not superficial ones. It caused others to stand strong in their beliefs. Could I not be the one to cause a movement within?

I am not attempting to confuse anyone. If you know the truth, you should be able to defend it, by whatever is thrown at you.

Do you learn best by everyone being in agreement, or best by others challenging you?

edit on 20-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

I actually am enjoying the discussion however I am a follower of the lord and so I don't try to doubt him anymore however someone who does not have a relationship with the lord may see a thread like this and the conjecture therein as a reason to look for salvation elsewhere possibly to their detriment. I applaud you for trying to shake things up and get people thinking but in my apostate life years ago I used questions like the one posed to lead many astray which is my burden to bear and I do not wish it on any other.

reply to post by NihilistSanta

I applaud you for trying to shake things up and get people thinking but in my apostate life years ago I used questions like the one posed to lead many astray which is my burden to bear and I do not wish it on any other.

I see why you have stated what you said in your OP. But, many on here assume what my intent is, surely what I am doing has been sanctioned, by the one whom I report to.

I am a follower of the lord and so I don't try to doubt him anymore

Neither do I, but I will cross your path to make sure you are living up to your words that you confess, as will the others.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


IF you are a follower of "the lord"... pay close attention to who else claims that title...

Nothing in this thread could lead anyone astray...

Truely i tell you... you we are all free to do as we will...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

Things are not messed up because of one that questions...

Things are messed up because there are charismatic people leading in places they do not belong...

People put there trust in those that barely understand the basics of spirituality...

there are those that listen to preachers, and those that read for themselves... Those that read do not bother to listen to others because the truth is right in front of them.

Those that listen to preachers are as good as blind..

and we know what happens when the blind follow the blind.... right?

Actually you could say it is entirely messed up because of one who questions. Adam and Eve questioned the lord and the devil planted the seed.

Also I dont believe one has to be this ultra-studious intellectual when it comes to spirituality the truth is usually very simple but our Egos try to make it more complex to fit our preconceived notions.

Also to OP so you are saying that a loving and merciful God put us here to cultivate our souls? I can kind of see that except to me that is placing the blame on God as to why we suffer rather than on us who as individuals and collectively choose to ignore God and his commandments. God created us because he Loves. If he did not he could have just made slaves. We call him father because that is the perfect example of our relationship to him and him to us.

For instance if I had children I could force them to do what I want them to do but that would only cause them to fear me or I could allow them to choose for themselves while guiding them and when they chose to do things that bear good fruit and they can see the results for themselves then they would understand that my motives are good and they could trust me and out of that a true relationship of love would form. My 2 cents.

reply to post by NihilistSanta

Also to OP so you are saying that a loving and merciful God put us here to cultivate our souls?

Would you mind rephrasing this, I don't understand that in which is spoken.

I can kind of see that except to me that is placing the blame on God as to why we suffer rather than on us who as individuals and collectively choose to ignore God and his commandments.

Is man really suffering? Or, are we learning by way of suffering? Humans put the weight on suffering.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta

Another thought touching on my last point though a bit off topic but I have considered the idea that we were created so that God could experience himself through us. Could anyone elaborate on this? I am merely a seeker and do not hold any answers but would love to hear someone who could bring me closer to understanding.

That is a nice thought and it's good that you are a seeker.

If you can accept that you and everything in the cosmos is "God," then this kind of idea can be summed up simply as: We are a way for the cosmos to know itself. (Carl Sagan) It is because all the things in the universe and nature are within us. We are made from atoms, which contains energy, and have the elements (such as carbon, iron, etc.) of the universe within us. Just like they say that Adam was made from the earth. We do technically come from that, but that came from stars! And the stars came from the big bang. And the big bang came from "God." All the material that comes from the nuclear fusion of a star, goes into making you. So, you are the big bang, stars, planets, and so on. That's the idea. The fact that we are all a microcosm of the cosmos, which makes us a fractal image of it. A fractal image has the same patterns no matter how far you zoom in or zoom out.

It's called pantheism when you put the concept of God into the equation. Pan means all, just like omni (as in omnipotent) means all. "All is God." It recognizes that God is everything: the heavens, the planets, the stars, humanity, atoms, everything.

It's just one of many paths to understanding yourself and understanding God. This tends to be a pill that's too hard and big to swallow for most though.

There's also the idea of "divine beings having a human experience" which is similar enough.

Ultimately, it all lands on how you feel about a certain path. What resonates within you? What agrees with your common sense?

May your journey be a splendid one.

reply to post by NihilistSanta

Actually you could say it is entirely messed up because of one who questions. Adam and Eve questioned the lord and the devil planted the seed.

Lets keep in mind we're talking about a talking snake here...

Im sorry but in reality, snakes don't talk... Believe it or not, theres quite a few fairytales within "the book"

Also I dont believe one has to be this ultra-studious intellectual when it comes to spirituality the truth is usually very simple but our Egos try to make it more complex to fit our preconceived notions.

Actually its amazingly simple... the issue comes when an "intellectual" reads the bible and figures out a way to "decieve" others with it... Ego is a big part of it, but not how you seem to think

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

Actually you could say it is entirely messed up because of one who questions. Adam and Eve questioned the lord and the devil planted the seed.

Lets keep in mind we're talking about a talking snake here...

Im sorry but in reality, snakes don't talk... Believe it or not, theres quite a few fairytales within "the book"

Also I dont believe one has to be this ultra-studious intellectual when it comes to spirituality the truth is usually very simple but our Egos try to make it more complex to fit our preconceived notions.

Actually its amazingly simple... the issue comes when an "intellectual" reads the bible and figures out a way to "decieve" others with it... Ego is a big part of it, but not how you seem to think

The word nachash means shining one. Which could also be translated as serpent. Mike Heiser has some good information on this from genesis. MSH

reply to post by NihilistSanta


Alright so lets say the whole "snake" thing was actually a spirit...

Do you not believe that when God placed "the tree of knowledge" in the garden in our story... He likely knew what he was doing?

Or

God put the candy in front of his children expecting them to leave it be?

Is your God wise or cruel?

both?

reply to post by Akragon


Interesting question. I would like to see other responses on this one, if possible.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

Alright so lets say the whole "snake" thing was actually a spirit...

Do you not believe that when God placed "the tree of knowledge" in the garden in our story... He likely knew what he was doing?

Or

God put the candy in front of his children expecting them to leave it be?

Is your God wise or cruel?

both?

Sort of like if I had a shotgun in my closet and told my hypothetical kids not to touch it or they would surely die then it is me being cruel if they choose to go against me and play with it? or you can interchange fire or whatever for shotgun. It comes down to free will and is not really a question of cruelty. Cruelty implies intent. If God created us to suffer then im sure he could devise much better ways than this miraculous gift of life to torment us.

reply to post by NihilistSanta

If God created us to suffer then im sure he could devise much better ways than this miraculous gift of life to torment us.

He didn't send man here to suffer. But, through all experiences, man can become whole.

reply to post by jhill76


Why does judeo-christian belief refer to our condition as being fallen or the fall? That implies that we were in a better/higher state before our actions/choices caused this fall. Opinion incoming! I dont not feel that we were created fallen and have to work our way up. The narrative says the opposite if I understand correctly. Although if you can show me something to suggest otherwise I will gladly consider it.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

If God created us to suffer then im sure he could devise much better ways than this miraculous gift of life to torment us.

He didn't send man here to suffer. But, through all experiences, man can become whole.

You are contradicting yourself now. Before you said we are here to grow into becoming worthy of God (im paraphrasing) and you also said that we grow through that suffering so which is it did he send us here to suffer in order to grow or did he not?

reply to post by NihilistSanta

You are contradicting yourself now. Before you said we are here to grow into becoming worthy of God (im paraphrasing) and you also said that we grow through that suffering so which is it did he send us here to suffer in order to grow or did he not?

The suffering is one part of it, not all of it. So, it may seem I am contradicting, but I did not include all of the reasons why man is sent here, thus the confusion.

Originally posted by NihilistSanta
reply to post by jhill76

 

Why does judeo-christian belief refer to our condition as being fallen or the fall? That implies that we were in a better/higher state before our actions/choices caused this fall. Opinion incoming! I dont not feel that we were created fallen and have to work our way up. The narrative says the opposite if I understand correctly. Although if you can show me something to suggest otherwise I will gladly consider it.

I do not agree that man is fallen. I only know that man is sent here to learn. Even ones above, are sometimes sent here to live as man, to learn.

Originally posted by jhill76
reply to post by NihilistSanta

 

You are contradicting yourself now. Before you said we are here to grow into becoming worthy of God (im paraphrasing) and you also said that we grow through that suffering so which is it did he send us here to suffer in order to grow or did he not?

The suffering is one part of it, not all of it. So, it may seem I am contradicting, but I did not include all of the reasons why man is sent here, thus the confusion.

Well you did not include those reasons because no one knows. It is not stated in the Bible to my knowledge why we are here but we can infer from the fact that we are here that God created us out of love. I say this because he has no needs or desires so it appears to be a selfless act on his part. The suffering is the result of OUR actions not the lords.

reply to post by NihilistSanta


yet if you read the OT... God has serious needs/desires...

hmmm...

reply to post by NihilistSanta

Well you did not include those reasons because no one knows.

I did not include them, because I have parameters in which I must abide by. Everyone seems to give my intent for me.

reply to post by Akragon


Care to point out those needs or desires?