An inside look at racism in the USA from a white guy

Racism has always confused me. Im a patriotic, only somewhat educated, 42 year old while midwestern blue collar American male (or no collar, i wait tables in a T-shirt) I suppose that I am the ideal candidate when one imagines a white racist from the USA. IM NOT ONE, but lemme continue...

I was born in 1969, adopted by good Mormons, and raised in Missouri by public schools, Gary Gygax, and Sesame Street. The message that we were all the same, ie AMERICANS (or children of God, or Muppets, or even PLAYER CHARACTERS), was hammered into me by all sides. Sure our stats might be different, we might all excell at different things, but we each get to roll the 20 sider on our turn. This was hammered into my whole generation. (well, the equality thing, maybe not the Dungeons and Dragons as much) But now as a "grown-up", I see the younger generations harping on differences.

My nephew came out to me as a white supremacist (WS for brevities sake) one thanksgiving, after this vacation, I shared the story with one of the smarter guys I worked with, He's younger than me, but he was one of the guys i would hang out with after work to shoot the breeze and have a beer with. This guy tells me that he's one too, one of these WS guys.

He tries to get me to admit that the rich people who run the world are all Jews. I pointed out that the rich people who run the world seem to come from all over, which is a side effect of their global operation. He blows this off and goes on to tell me how "Jewish Bankers" pulled the strings of WWII to "fake the holocaust" and "steal Palestine". He has all kinds of wacky information, like the "fact" that most of the Jews aren't Jews anyway, they're "Ashkenazi Turks" with no claim to The Holy Land at all. And this is where I got him. Sometimes you just have to give 'em enough rope.

So it turns out that you don't hate Jews, I told him. He was surprised. Well by your admission, I reminded him, "Jews" have a right to The Holy Land (at least to some degree even according to the WS people) or it would not be important to point out that Turkish Ashkenazi converts have NO SUCH CLAIM. It also seems that my neo nazi pal didn't even hate Jews, by his own logic, he hates TURKS.

On the political side, I pointed out that Zionism is not an exclusively Jewish movement no matter how you feel about it (my people, The Mormons, are big time Zionists). I told him that truthfully, there were more white chirstian zionists in the USA than there were folk in Isreal period.

Now as to the multi ethnic nature of the ruling cabal, this fellow began to propose that most of the worlds ruling elite that appeared to be innocent foreigners were actually "Secret Jews". Here is where I thought I'd had enough. I laughed at him and pointed out that David Icke says they're baby eating lizards from space. Without missing a beat my pal says, "whose to say they're not?" I wish I could make this up. He went on to tell me that the Clintons, the Bush's, and the British Royal Family are all Jewish.

Apparently this guy uses the word Jew to mean 3 or 4 different things, some of them in contradiction with each other. I pointed this out to him and said that at least from where I was sitting, it appeared important to him that Jews were bad. He nodded like everyone could agree on that.

I said but how can Jews be bad if we can't even define the term (Israeli, Zionist, Hebrew, Ashkenazi, Diaspora descendant, modern converted reform practioner, New Yorker), let alone trace their bloodlines (lost tribes, European converts, "Secret Jews") or even tell them apart from ourselves - (I used to love to point out to this guy that his "Jewish" customers looked JUST LIKE his "White" customers)

I guess that's why one A-hole not far from where I grew up decided to hang around outside a local synagogue and drop a deer round through one of my buddies cousins on his way out. The victim was 12. I guess the shooter figured that by waiting outside, he knew was gonna get a "real one". I don't mean to make light of the shooting... But the fact that WS folk hate Jews and think that "White folk" are "better" is really kind of funny in that way that used to be called "Gallows Humor". Seriously If Hitler tried to play "Spot the Jew" in an LAPD lineup would he advance to the lightning round?

To finish out this bit, the restaurant I worked in at the time was run by Italian Catholics, who I found out shared this guys opinions, AND WERE DARKER THAN THEIR JEWISH CLIENTELLE. If we're using "whiteness" as a scale here it adds to the gallows humor, also called "black" humor in a racist way that our imported friends are familiar with.

Jews cant be "white" because whiteness is good, and "jews are bad" according to WS. But if you go searching for the actual badness, it's hard to display. People will talk about Isreal, the fact that the nation behaves in a less than ideal manner regarding the disposition of its military might in relation to its national interest. WELL DUH.

That's not proof that Israel is evil, that's proof that Isreal is a modern nation state. Almost all the big boys are frequently less than polite with an army here or there, but according to a few loud voices, it is very important that I know about ISRAELI atrocities. To be fair there really is a Jewish community in the American media industry, and they make sure that I'm kept abreast of Palestian terrorism. I won't call that conspiracy, its too OBVIOUS. besides the conspiracies are supposed to be fun, i expect politics to be dirty for folk to attempt to serve themselves and their own as they define that

Moving on


Skip ahead, few years later, still waiting tables in St. Louis Missouri. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised at how much racism I see in the working classes of a largely Catholic Midwestern Beer Drinking City like St. Louis. Im at a different place and a co worker, a waitress, is complaining about a table she sees heading into her section. She turns to me and says, "OMIGOD! did you see what that hostess just did to me?" I say "you mean try to get your rent paid?" She huffs away and later on we grab a beer and talk. She lets me know that I can drop the PC act, that everybody knows that Jews dont tip, and that those customers were wasting her time. I tell her that my Jewish clientelle pays me well, and that my Black clientelle pays me well also.

She refuses to believe me and I tell her a little of the above story from the other place I worked. I ask her, what is it about guys like him? What is it about that OTHER GUY (not her of course LOL) that just already KNOWS that "Jews are bad" before He's even met Rosenberg, party of 4?

And here she blew my mind, without skipping a beat she snapped, "WELL THEY KILLED OUR LORD FOR STARTERS, HOW'S THAT?!?!" I was actually stunned. So I said to her, "You would use Christiantity, the suppossed teachings of the Prince of Peace, who was a RABBI, to justify your anti-Jewish feelings?" She went on to explain that Jesus wasn't a RABBI, that RABBIS were Jewish, and Jesus wasn't Jewish, he was the SON OF GOD. I explained that Jews are matrilineal, and that if Mary, and Marys mother, were both in the tribe, that Jesus would be Jewish even if his dad was Chairman Mao. She told me I was stupid, and that if Jesus was Jewish, there would be NO REASON FOR CHRISTIANITY, which she pointed out smugly, was a DIFFERENT RELIGION.

END OF PART ONE

Im gonna slap this up and grab the first reply for part 2 srry about typos

PART TWO

So Im sure that many of you thought this would be one of the common threads where "whitey" complains that the real racism in the USA is all the "special programs" handed out to minorities. NOPE. Im here tellin the world how many regular "nice" white Americans act when they think they are alone or "in good company".

Part one was largely about a few experiences with local anti-semites in Missouri. But how do White Midwesterners by and large feel about African Americans? You guessed it. Ive put up with a lot of this talk because when I expose one of these folk, I enjoy taunting them over beer after work.

Cutting right to the root of anti-black white racism in the USA. When you get past the "everybody knows that" part of the argument and let your target know that you really DONT KNOW, that it has to be EXPLAINED to you... Then the racist will cite statistics. I've seen this here on ATS (in fact earlier tonight, its one of the reasons I decided to hang my ass in breeze and type all this). If you allow a white supremecist to try and justify the "inferior" status of American blacks, they will tell you about property crime, university graduation statistics, home owner statistics, business ownership statistics, and violence.

They will then act as if these numbers actually prove their point. But they don't. I like to point out to the Racist in question that we are essentially talking about the children of POWs. That we have only a few hundred years of this social event to look at, and only about 50 or so (roughly) to look at in this current way (ie racism in the context of post slavery, post civil rights, pre equality USA)

Yes I said pre equality, or the statistics that our WS pals throw around could not be cited so easily.

All you closet WS Americans, I know how many of you there are out there, imagine the following totally made up scenario. The Chinese navy gets tired of staying at home, and raids the Western Coast of the New USA for slave labor, sure its a long trip, but the area is famously lawless, so they get away with it. They import thousands of (mostly) white Americans. We can tell each other apart because he speaks french and he speaks german, this guys a mexican, and this guys half Iriquoi, but according to our captors were all WHITE. They work us to death in poor conditions building a nation out of the harsh Chinese frontier (sorry China I'm making this all up).

Years pass. Politics change, and for whatever reason, the former white slave population of China is set free. More years pass, more political change, after public turbulence, our people are given "equal rights" with the Chinese. This does not sit well with old fashioned Chinese Supremecists. 50 more years pass. Now its today. A Chinese Supremecist is citing statistics that he swears can PROVE the inferiority of white people.

Never mind the well known old and recent events, never mind the fact that many of us didnt, wouldnt speak chinese at home and the language still sits heavy in the mouths of some our children. Never mind the fact that our forefather were hateful and mistrustful of their slavemasters perhaps with very good reason, and that these values are still alive in the home, perhaps again with good reason. never mind the fact that the nice ordinary chinese folk wont hire us, give us lower grades, arrest us more often, and let us go for "just being dumb" less often then the "regular" folk.

This guy (this imaginary Chinese Supremecist) "quotes" from the TV news... not only are whites the poorest folk in China, they are also the least educated, own the least property, and almost never own or run successful Chinese businesses. They are also responsible for the majority of crime in China and don't let those bleeding heart Chinese Liberals tell you its just because they're poor! Why my grandfather ate mud for 116 years building this great nation, we didnt come over on a freakin boat just to get a hand out!
ahem /rant off

but seriously, have you ever been different? Or has your whiteness shielded you from the frowny side of America SO MUCH that you don't even believe it is there? You can be white and still be different enough to get a taste of what i'm talking about. There are a variety of voluntary subcultures to choose from, change your dress, your hair, the music blaring out of your Camaro, and go and experience societal rejection you rebel you...

But it's voluntary. You can always get a hair cut, stop saggin, watch Fox News, be "normal". What if you couldn't? Well obviously time smooths over most of these demographic speed bumps, but what if you were on the DOWN SIDE of one? BEFORE it smoothed out? Could you keep your cool?

Aside from being Mormon, I havn't really experienced any kind of rejection from my society, but I think that may be the reason that I didn't come into life with the common set of predjudices that I see in my largely Catholic hometown.

A word about Mormonism in Part 3 (no Im not a missionary, Im not even religious, I was just raised that way, so dont worry, I DONT BITE)

Part 3

A white guy reveals that white folk in America are still actually racist! (SHOCKING! WE DID NOT KNOW!)

So Anyway. Being a Mormon in my childhood in the 70s and 80s was almost normal for midwestern Jesus people. Church on Sunday, lots of Jesus, Church youth group stuff through out the week, more Jesus. Prayers before meals, prayers before bed, prayers before car trips. And every prayer was delivered in earnest to both "our father in heaven" and to Jesus Christ. I left the faith, Im not preaching, but I AM making a pre emptive attempt to quiet the folk who always show up when I tell the Internet that Im a Mormon. Theres a certain class of christian who just NEEDS to help me understand that I worship the devil and that I have been decieved.

Im not here to argue religion, I even walked away from mine, but to that special class of Fundie, CMON PLEASE! you have no how idea much Jesus they fed me, Im pretty sure that it was NOT the devil in disguise. they're allowed to be wrong, but then theyre wrong about JESUS.

but heres the cool thing, I think it turned me anti establishment before I even knew that word. I already knew that nobody liked Mormons because every now and then one of the Jesus kids would bring it up, I was a cultist, my dad had 3 wives, you know the drill.

but what I didnt know was that Mormon history was a lot bloodier than they tought me in Sunday School. It turns out that the Mormons were shot out of a couple of states entirely and that my home state, MO, was one of them. In my schooldays somewhere in the 1970s an earnest MO lawmaker discovered that the Mormon Murder Bounty was still on the books, It hadn't been used in SO LONG that it was forgotten, but it was still just a bit legal, technically.

So I'm saying that even as a regular white guy, you could have walked into my 7th bithday party, blown me away, taken my ear to the governer, and received your dollar bounty.

What do you suppose has been going on for the last few hundred years regarding the less than welcome members in our so called melting-pot? I know its not just our African Americans, the Irish went through hell, though not for as long, the Japanese were even rounded up in camps.

There was an honest to god cross burning in my very neighborhood when I was 10. I'll never forget it. Across the corner, across the street, next door to Erics house. The good Mormons that raised me didn't want me playing with Eric, his older brothers were long hairs, hippee types. And as the fuel soaked towel wrapped 2x4s blazed, about a dozen of the good white Jesus people from the neighborhood stood around and clucked.

And Eric's long haired hippee brothers came running up in SOCKS and stamped that damn thing out.

I know that this has been a long and useless rant, thanks for reading it. Racism is not really easy to justify if you put it under a magnifying glass.

My nephew tried to tell me that Africans had never done anything in all of history worth boasting of. I told him that was simple ignorance and had him google Hannibal, and then the olmec heads.

Heres a link to the Olmec Heads. No one knows much about these guys, but it looks a whole lot like Africans were navigating the high seas a long long time before whitey wrote Beowulf.

www.google.com...

Since this thread is unlikely to gather much attention, let me tell you 3 SHORT stories about racism in America that happened to me.

1
I moved to California in 1998, the ethnic mix in Oakland was quite diverse and one day, on a City Bus, I heard some unseen, upset person yell, "Man! Screw Tahitians!" with a furious passion. I'll never know who or why, but that guy really did NOT like people from Tahiti.

2
In the Midwest im something of a wierdo, i like ATS, im not averse to discussing bigfoot or atlantis. I move to California as i said above, and all of a sudden I was the hope of the future. Everyone at my job in SF thought i walked right out of leave it to beaver, I had actually been to church, I was an actual boy scout (I KNOW! NO ITS NOT EVEN A JOKE!) My boss even (really) said to me "where have you been? Ive been looking for a nice white kid to help me run this company!" he really said that, and I got promoted. I was in the computer room of a telemarketing and data mining firm in the Bay area in the golden age of IT and I was moving up. my boss went on to tell me that he would pair me up with "Berkely Dave" ('SUP DAVE!) he told me that dave was a dreadlock pot head black guy, but that he knew what was up.

OK so if he already had Dave, and Dave already knew "what was up"... then WHY did I get promoted again? And if a dreadlock cant get promoted at a job hes GOOD AT in SAN FRANCISCO of all places... then how far have we come again?

OK that story is from 1999 or so, and we do have a black prez now.

one more short story and I hope I dont get in trouble for this

3
So i go to the grocery store to get lunch. Im not looking for staples, Im looking for something I can eat RIGHT NOW. The local grocer is one of those huge suberban boutique places the size of a warehouse that has a deli and a sushi joint and a rotisserie inside. the store is also a senior friendly employer, and its not uncommon to see some really old folk there in the afternoon ringing out customers.

Im too late for the rotisserie, the lunch crowd cleaned out all the roasted birds, but they were having a sale on yesterdays fried chicken. They had a bunch all in clear take out boxes in a cooler display.

Man next to cold pizza, fried chicken has got to be the best next day food there is. so i do my job and look through many of the boxes until i find that special winner. this was gonna be my lunch. i picked the best looking box of fried chicken in the whole rack by far. swinging around the cold beverage rack, i grab a root beer and head for the checkout lanes. there is a spring in my step, my woes are forgotten, all i needed was in the tasty looking clear box of cold fried crispy tender heaven i had been so lucky to find.

I get in line without really paying much attention, truth is all im thinking about is this gorgeous chicken, seriously i am into lunch just then, as a concept, and I coudnt be more pleased with my self. i set the box down on the conveyor belt and look at it just a bit more with love and anticipation before I look up at my cashier.

hes about a 70 year old man, african american, and hes staring at the box of chicken entranced. hes making the same face i was, except he isnt finished yet because i had a head start on him. then he looked up. and saw me looking at him, while he was looking at fried chicken.

I used to wonder what the word MORTIFIED meant. That man would have traded much to have been caught with a hooker and a 8-ball. but it had to be a white guy, in a necktie, looking at him, looking at fried chicken.

OMG PLEASE DONT BAN ME THIS REALLY HAPPENED I SWEAR TO GOD

I still have mixed feelings about all of this.

OK first of all this is MY chicken were talking about here. if there is a "chicken lover" in this racist tale it is ME. I already loved it before i got in line. Ive been staring at it dreamily for minutes while the fat chick in front of me bought chicklets.

But due to all the BS and bad blood and what that rapper meant when he said "everything is everything you know?" due to the odd history of our great nation, this man was horrified to be seen appreciating the lunch that HE was selling me. It was a fine looking lunch as well, as i think i made clear.

Is it funny? Is it sad? Is it too much in the telling?

With apologies to Tahitians, Dreadlock Dave, and that poor innocent man,
I remain somewhat oddly yours

Oh look, another thread about racism. Must you continue stirring the pot?

near as i can tell "the pot" here is on a magnetic stir plate for continuous agitation

I hear you though, regarding my personal feelings, when we begin to focus on the single race of EARTHLINGS, were going to get ahead in a much more serious way.

One of the reasons that this thread isnt getting too many responses is that politically charged whites people dont want to hear what im saying, and politically charged black people are split in to 2 camps, one who already knows what im saying and agrees, and the other who just doesnt need to keep listening to a white guy about much of anything anymore because SO FAR, that hasnt worked out for them

i can dig this

but as I read here on ATS i come across more than a solid handfull of threads from "regular white guys" who are lamenting, moaning. complaining to thier black neighbors to LET IT GO

OMG it was a long time ago ITS OVER

STOP COMPLAINING, JUST GO BECOME A CEO OR SOMETHING jeez

meanwhile, the rise of homegrown american nazis seems to be real, and not just some B grade after school special paired back2back with "scared straight"

whats going on? is it the dumbing down?

I think that much of it has to do with economic losses in the last decade. This, coupled with the success of certain demogogues (rush im looking your way) and the overall lowering of public civility (various rappers, howard stern)

put it all together and it is easier for a dumb american to point the finger at his neighbor? I'm just guessing here

but as a white midwesterner, I can tell you FOR THE TRUTH that after Obama was elected, a ton of angry white folk "came out of the closet" about how they really feel about certain Americans.

At least they did around here, Im what could be called a college educated liberal (didnt quite finish but i went)

but im working in the lower classes of a beer type town with a ST in its name

does this have anything to do with the fact that my co workers feel it is "normal" to band together as poor whites against those scary outsidsers?


but heres what really gets me, im from the burbs... if your high school profs are black (and Mr. Harris was in my top 3 teachers), and if you have black co workers (my place seriously depends upon a single black dude named Brad, if Brad gave us the finger we would be BONED) and if you were raised on eddie murphy and bill cosby, and if you think those tennis playing sisters are HOT (they are) and if you used to have an LLCOOLJ tape or 2...

Well then american blacks are not scary outsiders.

so why is it that i see and hear more unjustifiable racist crap from white folk NOW than i saw in the 80s when forced bussing desegged my high school, or when i starting playing RUN DMC for my buddies?

And where the hell did a whole generation of AMERICAN NAZIS come from?

i cant ask that question loud enough, seriously what the hell did we let happen in our own back yard?

The only reason race is an issue is because certain people continually exhume the corpse.

Leave it buried and we can all move on from there.