Israel Loves Iran campaign says "Give Peace A Chance"

reply to post by sonnny1

I wonder how many people thought Gandhi's vision was just an illusion of his little mind......

Ghandi himself said his 'peace marches' were CONDITIONAL on the nature of the enemy. He himself said in a different context, a 'peace' march against a tyrannical government willing to come down hard, would be SUICIDALLY stupid.

Look at the Dali Lama. He had to tell his fellow Buddhists to stop immolating themselves because it wasn't accomplishing anything. The Chinese just don't care.

Heres a similar tale. The Jews of ancient Judea took their Sabbath incredibly seriously. So seriously, that when the threat of war was on the horizon, they refused to fight. The Sabbath was 'too holy' a day. They believed God would protect them.

Well, God punishes people apparently for flouting the commands of reason. The Greeks attacked and killed the entire town. Now, the Talmud relates, if there exists a sufficient threat, Jews are no longer required to protect the sabbath, but rather, to take up arms.

Ideals often fail to match reality. Of course, we should strive, but when there exists such an obvious threat, you have to think clearly and do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your loved one.

reply to post by dontreally



Look.

I have no dog,in the Middle East conflicts.

All I have stated, throughout the thread is my desire, to see these two Countries peoples, not Governments continue in their desires to love one another, regardless on what their respective Governments believe.

WHY "dissect" the emotional bond, of willing peace and love? What good do you find in doing it? Does it make you a brighter individual? Does it make you a smarter one? Does it help the current situation? Do feel superior?

We all know what the current situation is like. Don't make it "sound" like Im this conflicted dreamer, who doesn't know what the hell is going on. I am well aware.




Really. We have enough "Negative" Threads on ATS, involving Iran and Israel. I thought for a change, that something positive, would be a better distraction to ALL the BS threads and doom and gloom. And you wonder why I abandoned this thread...........

reply to post by sonnny1

WHY "dissect" the emotional bond, of willing peace and love?

Because it is totally unrealistic. It's a fantasy; it's akin to the schizophrenic persons 'delusions' amidst a world of actual reality. He may of course 'enjoy' his delusions, or more likely, suffer in them, but it doesn't change the fact that he's not a part of the reality of the world around him. He's completely insulated in his cocoon of delusions.

To enjoy this discussion requires a complete disconnect from the facts on the ground. I myself, for example, have been studying this conflict for a long time, so I am intimately aware of all the details. While I said, it is 'good' to hold a "remainder" of yourself away from the facts of political reality, uttering Kumbayic calls of peace in the form of "Israel loves Iran", and maybe hoping such calls to peace could penetrate Irans totalitarian government, it is still incredibly unlikely that anything will come of it.

What good do you find in doing it?

It's a greater good to prepare yourself and your loved ones for a realistic outcome, then to deposit your whole being into highly unrealistic hopes of 'peace', meanwhile, Iran continues building a bomb, Iran transfers the bomb to Lebanon, and Iran kills Ronny and his wife and his loved ones in a nuclear holocaust.

You know, there is a timetable. Israelis do not have 'infinite' time to foster hopes of peace with Iran. A social revolution, if it did happen in Iran, is not around the corner, and certainly would not come before they have a fully functioning nuclear bomb - in the hands of Shi'ite radicals.

Do you see?? Again, I have offered my support to Ronny. I think what he's trying to do, at some etheric level, is greatly important. However, the vast bulk of my awareness is still 'plugged' into the facts of political reality.

If 99 times out of 100, something always happened, or rather, if it were 999/1000, what would you do? The hopes of Ronny are that slim '1' chance out of 1000, or maybe a million, that something good will result from a peace campaign with Iran. If he were PM, he would probably give such a campaign 'as much time' as it needed to fructify. Now, as said above, Iran is actively working on building a nuke within it's underground facilities. They have threatened Israel numerous times with increasing volatility. Ronny would probably get himself and millions of other Jews killed because of his sheer impracticality.

Really. We have enough "Negative" Threads on ATS, involving Iran and Israel. I thought for a change, that something positive, would be a better distraction to ALL the BS threads and doom and gloom. And you wonder why I abandoned this thread...........

Then this thread is nothing more a game to distract you?? Oh, I didn't know.

reply to post by sonnny1


Some...

Are just natural pessimists and can't fathom trying something new or out of the box.

The definition of insanity is doing the same exact things over and over again and expecting different results. Some will either insistently repeat their never varying actions or simply give up in a self fulfilling and reinforcing false sense of futility. Never really trying a new approach....


Which seems to me to be the exact situation in this case.

Optimism and trying a new approach is not "Fantasy"

reply to post by SLAYER69

The definition of insanity is doing the same exact things over and over again and expecting different results. Some will either repeat their actions or simply give up. Never trying a new approach....

Insanity is also ignoring facts of reality.

If I jumped off a mountain, I would be insane.

If I devoted too much of myself to this cause, I would provide a major opening for my enemies to finish me off.

Optimism and trying a new approach is not "Fantasy"

I expected more from you than this.

Read my post above yours, and tell me it isn't a very good analysis of the situation.

It's as if your idea of 'going outside the box' were absolute, would have to be 'fully' outside the box.

As said, I signed the petition. Does it change the fact that it's a complete pipe dream? Does it change the fact that those who act circumspectly are also acting righteously?

Again, if you do nothing, and something were to happen, it would have been because of the evil of pandering to an enemy for a peace that was unlikely to develop. It would have been a textbook case of gross negligence.

I will never forget the deeds of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, who traversed Europe in the pre-war years warning Jews to get out of Germany. He told them, "this is what Hitler says (in his mein kampf)", but they were quixotic, and they believed in a civility, and law, and love and peace. They under-estimated the attitude of the party in question. They also ignored, or rather, didn't bother to study, the philosophical basis for the Nazi parties aversion to all things Jewish.

If they had payed attention, they certainly would have left. It would have been prudent, and good.

reply to post by dontreally

If they had payed attention, they certainly would have left. It would have been prudent, and good.

That would have been a peaceful reaction and action

It's easy for all of us to see after what we should have seen before - there were so many that were aware of how dire the situation really was, but there was a lot going on then - economically, politically, militarily...how does an entire people abandon their homeland - and go where?

In any case - being constantly prepared, or over-prepared for war only guarantees war - not peace

For some there's more to life than surviving at all costs - at any cost

We might survive by being warlike - but survive for what?

Violence is not the only way forward - and pacifism is not naivete

If we want peace we have to start somewhere - and we start by finding peaceful solutions to our problems

It has to start somewhere

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


I appreciate your participation and giving us your perspective on this matter.