Israel Loves Iran campaign says "Give Peace A Chance", page 7

reply to post by sonnny1

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This because there beef is not between the people, but beef made by the govts......

Iran is nobody's problem and it should not be responsible for the paranoia of Israel and the Saudis.

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

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Iran is nobody's problem?
Do you know how many gay pride parades have gone through Jerusalem? Sure, there have been people who have heckled and expressed indignation. But the state gave them permission to do so. The joys of a secular democracy.
They are free to do so without fear of being hanged.

Now, lets organise the gay pride parade in Tehran and see how far people get. Or how many are brave enough to turn up. Regardless of Israel, Iran is a problem for people of different sexuality and different faith.
Don't think I could handle being told here in the UK that I'm going to be executed for apostacy because I change my religious conviction. In the case of Pastor Nharkis, he was never a muslim anyway, but because his country argues that he was born one culturally, he is an apostate from Islam and sentanced to be executed for freedom of belief.
A country where you cannot lawfully love who you want, and you cannot believe what you want for fear of execution.
Now tell me again how Iran is nobody's problem

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

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My bad. You're banned.
Your fault.

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood

Iran is nobody's problem and it should not be responsible for the paranoia of Israel and the Saudis.

reply to post by Ilovecatbinlady

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Iran is nobody's problem?
Do you know how many gay pride parades have gone through Jerusalem? Sure, there have been people who have heckled and expressed indignation. But the state gave them permission to do so. The joys of a secular democracy.
They are free to do so without fear of being hanged.

Now, lets organise the gay pride parade in Tehran and see how far people get.

So you think that a starting a massive bloody war that will kill millions because a country opposes public displays of homosexuality and anal sex between men?

Thats some messed up thought you got there. Maybe you should lead the crusade against the homophobes in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania first. Kill them all if they dont like anal sex between men!!

The world is chocked full of yaz.

So you think that a starting a massive bloody war that will kill millions because a country opposes public displays of homosexuality and anal sex between men? Thats some messed up thought you got there. Maybe you should lead the crusade against the homophobes in Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Sudan, Nigeria, Mauritania first. Kill them all if they dont like anal sex between men!! The world is chocked full of yaz.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

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Way to take a statement out of context. That was specious reasoning and you know it.
I argued Ilovecatbinlady's statement 'Iran is a threat to noone' was completely untrue and gave some valid reasons why.
You come along and distort it as a personal quest or crusade on my part to destroy Iran on behalf of several other middle eastern countries. How d'you piece that together? Let me try an abridged version.
ilovecatbinlady - 'Iran is a threat to no one'.
Me - 'Not true'.

Hope my simplifying it for you clears things up a little.

reply to post by Shadow Herder

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The time has come for mankind to realize that government and the people do not share the same ideas.

This statement is nonsensical. Name one single country in which "the people" share the same ideas at all.

In my country, America, we do not, nor have ever, truly been one in our ideas. That is, in fact, a defining point of America.

I just found that statement weird. If there is one country united in ideas, i would be surprised. Maybe countries ruled by religion?

reply to post by SLAYER69

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Thanks Slayer.

I agree.

Ive stayed out of most of the Iranian threads recently. I still believe these Nations have great people, but lousy leadership. Is it really that hard, not to stand up and say whats in your heart?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I'd sure agree that the normal people who are raising families and just trying to make it week to week don't want this war. I don't think any of us want war. Tehran, Tel Aviv or Washington...Normal people who are sane don't want another one, for certain.

Unfortunately, we don't determine government policy.

It takes leaders to do these things in almost every case and isn't it just so handy that they seem to have a standing practice of avoiding the deliberate targeting of each other? That's wearing a bit thin lately and all bets are off when the war is over and a side has won but funny how it's the normal people who do the dying.

Ah, Of course I love the ideas this guy is preaching, but they are very naive, and very ignorant of political reality.

In the social science textbooks, in other words, in terms of political reality, there is nothing any of us can do, barring some miracle, to offset this turn towards war. Both those in Iran - and even in Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere, and even the governments in America and Europe, they all want it.

It's hard to say for what reasons, since it's somewhat arcane a subject to go into with people who aren't acquainted with political theories, or agendas, which can be advanced by a future war. This is the idea that 'more good' would come from destroying the dysfunctional pieces in place around the world then to leave everything as is.

That's the problem I have. You hear such nice pleasantries from Ronny, but these pleasantries are contrasted against powerful forces at play with sophisticated plans. These plans are not going to be undermined by Ronny, unfortunately.

reply to post by sonnny1

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How do you expect a theocratic country like Iran to be composed of a citizenry as interested in peace with Israel - a democratic country, as some Israelis are in making peace with Iran??

You paint too sanguine a picture of Iranians. The idea that 'its the government' not the citizens, excludes a huge aspects of Iranian society: the influence of Islam.

I don't know how many Persians you know, but sadly, almost every Persian I meet (in Toronto, an extremely multi-ethnic city) has some antisemitic or "anti-zionist" views to share. And this is coming from mostly irreligious westernized Persians.

This doesn't even take into regard the legion of Shia Islamists 'awaiting' the coming of the Mahdi once Israel is wiped off the map.

Fact is, a vast amount of Persians (a country of over 75 million) are vociferously antisemitic. The Iranians who claim to speak for 'Iranians" as a whole, most probably speak for their own group of close friends, who I imagine are as moderate as themselves. Thus, they are hardly representative of the dominant strain, since, as we all know, the media conditions the vast majority of the population. And the Iranian media has hammered in a very negative perception of Israel, which the majority of ignorant and uneducated Iranians now subscribe to.

reply to post by dontreally

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You would be surprised on how many people, in Iran, would love regime change. The VAST majority, want peace. The same goes for Israel.





Start at the 15 min mark. You will see what a typical Iranian "thinks" about her country. Before you say this is propaganda, I would hardly think an Iranian WOMAN would talk so badly about her Government, if she didn't feel so strongly about it.

"Unfortunately, in Iran Religion and Politics is mixed with each other"

"AND ITS THE MAIN PROBLEM"

Strong words, coming from an Iranian woman, I might add.

reply to post by sonnny1

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The VAST majority, want peace. The same goes for Israel.

And what do you base this on? A hunch? A desire?

Iran is a country of 75 million. If even 40 million are antisemitic (and I would consider that an underestimate) that is still an enormous number!

Start at the 15 min mark. You will see what a typical Iranian "thinks" about her country. Before you say this is propaganda, I would hardly think an Iranian WOMAN would talk so badly about her Government, if she didn't feel so strongly about it.

Of course there are moderates in Iran. That's not the issue. The issue is the presence of a very large segment with incredibly radicalized views. And can you blame them? Are you unaware of the political structure of Iran? Do you realize that reformists are not even permitted by the so called 'guardian council' of the Islamic revolution to even run in supposedly 'democratic' elections?? Islamist's still have a very strong hold on the countries thinking, even if there exists a growing secular and democratic minority.

You HAVE to take this into account. Any educated person in the politics of the region can understand that while it is 'good' to hold onto such hopes as Ronny holds, it is HIGHLY naive and very dangerous to take them too far. There is very little chance that anything will come of it; and not because of Israel. There are very few 'extremists' within Israel, since Israel fosters a democratic culture of free thinking. Conversely, who controls Iranian news channels - the news that all Iranians get their information? The IRNA (Iranian republic news agency). Now, how do you expect for their to be properly educated 'majority' if the news - which the vast majority watches - passes through the filters of fanatical Islamists?

Strong words, coming from an Iranian woman, I might add.

Not that meaningful, either, I might add.

reply to post by sonnny1

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Desire, and Human Nature. EVERYONE I know wants to live in peace.

Well, the real world doesn't work that way.

You need to separate what you want, from real life political conditions.

WHY are those Jews living in Iran, still alive ? Hmmmm........

Do you think those 25,000 Jews would be safe if Israel attacked Iran? Do you know what happened to the Arab worlds 800,000 Jews after the 1948 war?

Politics are controlled by the Supreme Leader and his council. They already had a "revolution" to change their Government. You make it sound like they can NEVER have another one...........

You don't seem to get what I'm trying to point out.

I already signed that petition to nominate that Ronnie guy for a nobel peace prize. Does that change anything? Does that change the fact that 75 million Iranians are daily subjected to virulent anti-zionist propaganda? Do you get the 'information' filter there is much 'thicker' than it is here?? Just think for a second, in practical terms. Iran has cartel on the news, as said, in in IRNA. Therefore, everyone with Iranian cable is subjected to only one type of news; if they have satelite, they probably pick up Al Jazeera (which is just as radical) or Al Arabiya, assuming they are Arabic speakers, as in the Eastern provinces. This situation can only create a very large population of HIGHLY misinformed people. And yet you feel there exists a substantial 'base' in which you can appeal your appeal to peace.

It's not that I don't want peace, I just want to know the overall situation before I start pandering to my would-be killers for peace.

Do you get that? Do you get the Israeli government isn't a "bad guy"?? It's seems this is implied in your post. That for some inexplicable reason, both Israel and Iran want to attack each other; that no 'context' exists for why Iran opposes Israel, or for why Israel must be circumspect by taking precaution by attacking their nuclear facilities.

Machiavelli is a good place to start if you want to get an idea of how government has ALWAYS functioned, whether in the west or the east. If you start offering fig leafs - do you think the hard hearted Islamists will be moved by that act?? They will laugh at you, and then kill you, and then laugh some more at how easy it was.

One can hope and dream. Unfortunately, Naysayers, like yourself love to point out "facts"

It takes two to tango. I have no problem with some people holding out their hands to make peace. But you better make sure you're making preparations in case your quixotic dreams of peace with an enemy with religious convictions to see your state destroyed, doesn't work out.

Its those who are actually willing to sacrifice themselves, that are informed.

And they are outside the mainstream.

Again, it is only logical to assume that the majority think along the same lines as the government, since the IRNA - the state owned new media in Iran - shapes their views. Your insistence, or rather, refusal to acknowledge this only shows how fanciful your thinking is.

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