House Republicans Block "Bring Jobs Home Act", page 8


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reply posted on 19-7-2012 @ 10:52 PM by Xtraeme
reply to post by Valhall



Do you not understand the term pro rate? Proportional rationing or proportionally ratioed. There is no simpler nor basic pro rate system that a flat percent based on an amount. This amount we are discussing is income.


For something to be prorated it needs to be proportioned against something else. You said "pro rate down in absolute value as you go toward the lower income working class." So clearly when you said "value" you meant absolute dollar amount. "Absolute value" as I would have used it would be with regard to the "value of money," as I described in the post towards the top of the page. Clearly you see "value" and "absolute dollar amount" as being the same thing. I find this to be a bit simplistic and perhaps even somewhat naive, because it shows little to no appreciation for behavioral economics. Not all economics is positive. Actually a lot of it is normative. Hence ... political economy. For instance, in many, if not all, severely poor third world countries people survive on $2 dollars day. Imagine if you taxed them even $0.10/day. Catastrophe! Each penny in this case is utterly necessary. Due to this we need to look at value of currency not just quantity.

Maybe we could just go to a user tax system. If you have six members in your family you pay a higher tax than someone who is single. Would you like that?

And by the way, does not the new patient care act instill at even a greater pressure the same decision?


So it sounds like you're pissed off about illegals getting tax deductions by lying about how many dependents they have? Yeah, that's definitely a problem. I also don't like that it has the potential to encourage people to have more children (okay not so much but it's a minor factor). I think it's a hard problem. However I think there's a better solution than a flat tax. Perhaps the idea you've mentioned above could have some merit. I'll have to think on it.

Really, what you're arguing for is equalization of wealth. ... If I have enough jack in my pocket to buy a Hawaii island, someone gets that money.


No, I think you misunderstood my point. I'm arguing for a sensitivity to the value of money and that this is why tax brackets are a good thing. I don't have a problem with the rich. In fact I know quite a few people who fall into this category. If the money is being used for some purpose. Awesome! However if the money is primarily sitting in a location where it isn't being touched (e.g. nine pallets of $1 billion dollars worth of money as ART). Now THAT is a problem. This is why cash flow is typically the most important thing in a functioning society. It's also why when cash is distributed towards the bottom we often get a thriving economy because money is constantly moving from one person to the next. Personally I think this is why severely depressed economies often make their own local currencies because people are still capable of doing work for one another. It's just that the physical money itself is scarce. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if people start reverting back to the whole pieces-of-eight model and just start clipping coins or dollar bills.


reply posted on 19-7-2012 @ 11:45 PM by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by beezzer


Okay that makes sense, I was just responding to your other comment, and was trying to see beyond disdain for current admin, as in we need to bring/keep more jobs home in general, and it is not exclusively Bama's fault for this in vogue fleeing of jobs that find their way overseas for better profits.
Thanks


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 01:41 AM by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by LoonyConservative



Yes the Democrats are sacking the middle class and small business ownersa and the super wealthy won't feel it a bit plus they have tax shelters Obama will never touch plus swiss bank accounts.


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 03:14 AM by Xtraeme
Originally posted by beezzer
reply to
post by Xtraeme

Nice charts.


Thanks.

This arbitrary "cap" disturbs me.


It's no more arbitrary than the numbers are in the Enhanced Polar MILSATCOM spec.


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 04:10 AM by beezzer
Originally posted by Xtraeme
Originally posted by beezzer
reply to
post by Xtraeme

Nice charts.


Thanks.

This arbitrary "cap" disturbs me.


It's no more arbitrary than the numbers are in the Enhanced Polar MILSATCOM spec.




So someone, somewhere, can pick a dollar amount and state that anything "above" that number goes to government?



(I want THAT job!)


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 05:54 AM by Valhall
reply to post by Xtraeme



I don't think we need to be considering parting out currency that is almost worthless when it's whole. That won't do much for us except make the toilet paper last longer.

In a capitalist society the consumer moves the economy. In a socialized economy the government forces the movement of the economy. I think history speaks for itself on which one of these leads to a more self-sufficient and propagating form of economy.

There has always been and there will always be, no matter what form of government you have, people who have more (money and/or power) and people who have less. Even in a socialized government all you have done is made the populace below the bar of "have more" and those in power the extremely limited group above that bar. And the major difference between the system you get with a socialized economy and that you naturally have with a capitalistic economy is in the former there is little to no chance of making your own way up above that bar. The government legislates that forced "caste" system on the society.

In a capitalistic economy you ALWAYS have the chance to do better. If it doesn't happen it is either because of bad luck in your life or bad decisions...or both, but it is not because your government has forced to remain at your station. For the time being we are still not to the level of "we will pretend to work, you will pretend to pay us".

The government should not be trying to TAX companies back into America. If they want to legislatively force the situation, the penalizing movement should be toward imports. The U.S. consumer, if they would pull their heads out of their asses and use their buying power (what little we have left) to move the economy would bring jobs back to America. You gave a for instance on your own. A consumer can choose to support and promote localization of the economy. Sure Wal Mart had a grand, successful plan. Move just to the outskirts of every little town, set up their massive stores without contributing to the local tax base and then decimate main street America. You can hate on them all you want but guess what? They couldn't have done it without us, the consumer, flocking to their store, abandoning the local stores to save a few bucks, and now we are complicit. In fact, we are the ENGINE behind billions and billions of American consumer dollars each year going to China for cheap goods made outside of our own country.

There's a site called America's got Product. Have you ever bothered to go there and use it to sway your purchasing decision? You can analyze exactly what brand to buy that will foster the most money back into the U.S. economy, sustain the most amount of U.S. jobs, and help to increase the tax base of your local economy.

www.americasgotproduct.com...

If people (ALL people) are not required to support the common services they are provided, to every single instance in history it devolves into the Tragedy of the Commons. When people perceive a common benefit/service as "free" (even though it is not), that service falls into abuse by those who can use but are not held accountable. That service falls into ruin due to lack of ownership and accountability. Over and over in history the tragedy of the commons has been proven out and right now, right here, we're watching it occur again.

The "value of money" is set by its buying power. An unhealthy economy leads to devalued currency. A healthy economy leads to valued currency. 10% is 10% and when the money is worth something that 90% left buys you stuff. But you have to be part of the solution, step away from the decaying "common" and take an active role in saving your own economy. The more power you hand to the federal government the closer to the inevitable tragedy that awaits us. Stop trying to take other people's stuff and just use your own wisely and in an informed manner and see what happens.
edit on 7-20-2012 by Valhall because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 11:15 AM by Blackmarketeer
The Act is much easier to follow than I previously thought. It only references a couple sections of the IRS code. First, a brief background: the IRS code is USC 26. It's referred to as the 1986 code from the 1986 reform act. (Previously it was referred to as the 1954 code and the 1939 code).

In S. 3364: Bring Jobs Home Act, the first section of the 1986 code referenced is:
(a) In General- Subpart D of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

This is
Subpart-D, Part-IV, Subchapter-A, Chapter-1
(available from law.cornell.edu)

Currently it stops at Section 45r. The Bring Jobs Home Act would add a new section - 45s, titled: "§ 45S. CREDIT FOR INSOURCING EXPENSES".

---

The second section referenced is:
(a) In General- Part IX of subchapter B of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

This is Part IX, Subchapter-B, Chapter-1
(available from law.cornell.edu)

Currently it stops at Section 280H. The Bring Jobs Home Act would add a new section - 280I, titled: "§ 280I. OUTSOURCING EXPENSES".

---

And that is it. Two new sections added, which you can read in their entirity in the full text of the act: S. 3364: Bring Jobs Home Act - Full Text.

The Act is very clear and direct. It will end the tax break for closing up a business/shop and moving those jobs to another country. It will instead give a substantial tax credit for moving jobs TO America.


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 12:25 PM by marinesniper0317
reply to post by jam321



Yes I ponder this point now and again, Obama and the left had the majority for 2 years or so, SO why did they not do anything with it, you cannot honestly say that all their time was spent on Obamacare can you...? IF so what a crock...

Seems very convenient that all these bills are being put out now where there is not chance in hell of passing them, but when they actually might have been able to they did nothing but sit on their hands...

Obama = trash
Congress = trash

Everyday I watch the news or read about it, it is like an episode of the twiligthtzone !

Sniper


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 12:29 PM by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by marinesniper0317



Yes I ponder this point now and again, Obama and the left had the majority for 2 years or so, SO why did they not do anything with it, you cannot honestly say that all their time was spent on Obamacare can you...? IF so what a crock...


Yet it's the Republicans that have obstructed any attempt to pass bills or acts to address these issues. The "Bring Jobs Home Act" was just the latest victim of their obstructionist tactics.

"Obama and the left had the majority for 2 years or so" and have attempted to get an act like this passed. What have the Republicans done in their years in power? They passed the original code to favor outsourcing jobs. Blaming Dems for not being able to undo the damage the Repubs have done, while ignoring the Repubs as one of the root causes of said damage, is willful ignorance.


reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 12:56 PM by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by gncnew



It does not raise any taxes, and certainly not on companies that are already operating overseas.

It ENDS the one-time tax credit for moving expenses to relocate a company offshore, when outsourcing jobs.

It GIVES a tax break for moving expense when bringing a company to the United States, when INSOURCING jobs.

The Bring Jobs Home Act would provide a 20% tax break for the costs of moving jobs back to the United States and would rescind business expense deductions available to companies that are associated with the cost of moving operations overseas. (source)

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