Hubble spots spiral galaxy that shouldn't exist, page 3


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reply posted on 20-7-2012 @ 09:36 PM by Charmeine
reply to post by Dizrael



I think this is an awesome discovery and there is so much more to learn about this universe.

That said, how much do scientists really know? When everything is based on "theories".. I don't think anything is absolutely 100% certain this article is proof of how little we know...


reply posted on 22-7-2012 @ 02:29 AM by intrptr
Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to
post by Dizrael



What's more probable... the galaxy shouldn't exist OR our science is wrong?


Not "wrong". Just looking thru foggy lenses. And we have astigmatism


reply posted on 22-7-2012 @ 04:42 PM by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by intrptr


I have no idea what came before our current universe; perhaps other past universes that were born in a way like (or even unlike) ours, then died. Or not.

As for it being finite and edgeless at the same time, we don't know about the true demensionality of the universe to think this is possible it impossible. It may be that our human minds simply can't fathom how space can wrap itself.


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 12:53 AM by intrptr
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


It may be that our human minds simply can't fathom how space can wrap itself.

Like the earth seems flat. We can walk in one direction seemingly in a straight line and arrive back where we started. Again a sphere is bounded just like the earth's surface. We know the earth is spherical because we have seen it from afar.

Maybe the Universe is the same. It is spherical as well and traveling long enough we return to where we started. But I think not. When we look at the farthest view we still see space filled with stuff. No matter how deep we look (Hubble Deep Field) we see the light from those objects that has traveled to us from the source all those billions of years. From there, to our eyes. So, since there is no end to the universe (it goes on forever, right) then standing on one of those galaxies and looking away from us you would see as far again. And again. Forever.

Wrap your mind around that.

forever.......................us............................Hubble deep field.............................forever
edit on 23-7-2012 by intrptr because: (no reason given)
edit on 23-7-2012 by intrptr because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 01:21 AM by intrptr
Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
Originally posted by BagBing
Originally posted by intrptr
I know the "consensus". The repeating cycle of expansion/contraction through "big bangs" is the accepted theory.


No it isn't.

The accepted consensus is that the universe is 13.7 billion years old and expanding. Based on current observations (which of course may change) it will continue to expand. The end.

Correct. The going consensus is that they universe does not have enough matter to contract itself. It seems the expansion will keep accelerating.

However, since nobody really knows how the the supposed big bang happened in the first place, there is no way to know if or when it could happen again.

One version of string theory says that our universe exists on a "brane" (short for membrane), and our entire universe could be right next to another "brane" universe (although in a different dimension) and when the two "branes" bump each other, the energy cause by the bumping is what creates big bangs...

...of course that is a simplified version, but that the basic idea.

So in the simple version the here is not enough matter in the universe, (but it goes on forever?)

And nobody saw it start or stop (where does forever start or stop?)

And nobody has seen past the current universe to any thing else outside it so what is the proof of "other universes"?

The proof of anything is only in what we know so far. What we know is that no matter where we point our instruments the sky is full of stuff. If we develop even more powerful instruments then we'll see. Someone else already said here that we used to think the earth was it, then the solar system, then galaxies, then the universe... so it goes.


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 01:34 AM by intrptr
So here we have a "rendering" of the known Universe.



I notice that we "frame that". My question is what is outside this picture? Heres another:



Now you tell me how we set limits on something that has no limits? Of course we know that we can't show you the "whole thing" because there is no such thing. It just goes and goes... without end.

And if unending then any notion of a beginning, expansion or an "edgeless edge" has to be excluded, until proven other wise. Forever means just that. Forever.


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 01:47 AM by SplitInfinity
reply to post by intrptr


Hubble can only see out to 13.4 Billion Light Years. At this point of distance is what is known as the WMAP OR BACK GROUND RADIATION MAP. It is a Wall of Microwave Radiation that is only 379,000 Light Years from the point of the Big Bang.

Basically...Beyond this point is an OCEAN of SUPER HEATED PLASMA that blocks all Light's progress. We cannot see beyond this. Split Infinity


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 02:30 AM by intrptr
reply to post by SplitInfinity


Hubble can only see out to 13.4 Billion Light Years. At this point of distance is what is known as the WMAP OR BACK GROUND RADIATION MAP. It is a Wall of Microwave Radiation that is only 379,000 Light Years from the point of the Big Bang.

Basically...Beyond this point is an OCEAN of SUPER HEATED PLASMA that blocks all Light's progress. We cannot see beyond this. Split Infinity

Ty for that reply. That is quite compelling. May I ask, how big is that "ocean" of plasma? Surely it does not fill the sky? And if not, then it has an edge, and therefore we can see to the left or right (past) the "ocean"?

I am not decrying the idea of a huge bang, but try not to put all my eggs in one basket. There may be many such with their own nuclei further than we can currently see. Spread out as it were, where other singularities have blossomed and died, all out there beyond our own. In my minds eye that is the next size of object in the chain. Whats bigger than a galaxy? A universe, right? And bigger than that is a universe filled with universes? Dunno any more than everyone else.

Otherwise (and this is where my mind derails of the theory track) you have just one immensely big object in all that infinite space which surrounds it. And since we can't see it from within it, how can we say with any certainty that this is all there is? Like trying to describe your house from inside one of its rooms. And then nothing around your house? What about all the other houses down the street, in your town... the nation?

Still got that boundary in my mind:




reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 03:18 AM by SplitInfinity
reply to post by intrptr


There is a massive amount of information about the WMAP....I would suggest you google...pictures of wmap and do a search. There are NASA sites and what WMAP as far as what the letters stand for and many other sites. Too much info to direct you to just one site.

It is VERY INTERESTING!

Split Infinity


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 09:40 AM by intrptr
reply to post by SplitInfinity


Thanks SplitInfinity, I enjoyed this conversation with you, Soylent Green and BagBing. Sorry to be stubborn about it but just cannot accept the idea that space isn't "endless". No matter what the Bounded theorists say, I will always have a problem with that. Not with the science described today of the known, but of the theoretical that tends to describe "everything".

Even the word infinity just doesn't do it justice (you can't divide it either).


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 11:04 AM by SpaceBoy97
reply to post by Dizrael



This is really interesting. I wonder how it formed in the first place?


reply posted on 23-7-2012 @ 11:21 PM by SplitInfinity
reply to post by intrptr


I never said how many time SPLIT! LOL!
Split Infinity
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