George Takei's blog on the BSA reaffirmation of the ban on LGBT Scouts & Leaders

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by tjack

Oh...my bad. I thought it was about a private club consistently not allowing itself to be forced to compromise it's principles.

Again - - - how does being gay compromise principles?

Ok, I'll try to go slow....

BSA says "no gays"....that's their rule/principle

Gays say "let us join, you big dummies"...wanting the BSA to compromise said rule/principle.

BSA says "nope, sorry, we thought about it and since we're within our rights to stick to our principles, we're sticking to them"

I'm not even saying I completely agree with the BSA's decision, just that they are within their rights, and I feel they do have a point.

Never did I say, nor do I feel that "being gay" compromises principles, and I won't be roped into a "you got a problem with gays, dude?" conversation, because I don't have a problem with gays. I couldn't care less about another persons sexual orientation.

What I DO have a problem with, is anybody comparing Boy Scouts to Hitler youth and KKK. That's just plain ridiculous and completely inappropriate!

Keep trying though, it reaffirms to me where the "hate" is truly coming from.

Originally posted by tjack

What I DO have a problem with, is anybody comparing Boy Scouts to Hitler youth and KKK. That's just plain ridiculous and completely inappropriate!

Well - - did you read it?

And here is the official Boy Scout oath. Why is it politicized? Why is any child pledging to duty of country?

Did you know scouting was formed on a military platform?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Originally posted by tjack

BSA says "no gays"....that's their rule/principle

Gays say "let us join, you big dummies"...wanting the BSA to compromise said rule/principle.

BSA says "nope, sorry, we thought about it and since we're within our rights to stick to our principles, we're sticking to them"

I'm not even saying I completely agree with the BSA's decision, just that they are within their rights, and I feel they do have a point.

You say they have a point.

What is that point?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by tjack

 

So then now they are learning that it is actually limited to who you find acceptable.

No, they're learning outdoor survival skills, meal planning, knot tying, first aid, citizenship, etc....

I'm curious, do you think that everyone should be required to find everyone else acceptable? And that every group should be required to allow everyone to join? No exceptions? Is that even possible given human nature?

Originally posted by tjack
..
I'm curious, do you think that everyone should be required to find everyone else acceptable?

NO

And that's why they do a criminal background check.

I respect Takei's ability to call folks on their crap.

He's a dignified man, with a long relationship with the public. Doesn't abuse it at all. Seems to love to laugh.

BSA has a long history to troubled troop leaders. Sandusky. BTK. Gacy.

Maybe the exclusionary attitude of the BSA isn't something we want taught to our boys anyway. Maybe if we showed our children that the world truly was their oyster, they could discover and savor and see all the good as well as the unjust in the world.

Originally posted by Annee
~snip~

You say they have a point.

What is that point?

Their point is just like you and I, they have the right to say "no" to protect their interests, and that's what they've done.

Like I said before, if "not" allowing gays is to be their downfall, the BSA has made it's decision, so what will be will be. Time will tell. Let them die out, if that's what will happen.

BSA says "no gays"

Some say because of that they're a bunch of nazi kkk'ers.

I ask "Who's the extremist after all?"

Originally posted by tjack

Their point is just like you and I, they have the right to say "no" to protect their interests, and that's what they've done.

I never said they didn't. I am fully aware they are a private organization.

What does "protect their interests" mean?

You keep sticking these innuendos in your posts - - - then talking all around them saying nothing.

Why don't you just come out and say - - - you don't want gays in Boy Scouts.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by tjack

What I DO have a problem with, is anybody comparing Boy Scouts to Hitler youth and KKK. That's just plain ridiculous and completely inappropriate!

Well - - did you read it?

And here is the official Boy Scout oath. Why is it politicized? Why is any child pledging to duty of country?

Did you know scouting was formed on a military platform?

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Sounds like all good stuff to me.

And yes I knew scouting was formed on a military platform, after all I'm an Eagle Scout, and OA.

The Boy Scouts are a good organization who do good things, regardless of whether or not they're willing to step into "the future" as someone put it. I hope that most people, straight and gay alike, are wise enough to recognize that.

Originally posted by Annee
~snip~
Why don't you just come out and say - - - you don't want gays in Boy Scouts.

Nice try, but...

Originally posted by tjack
I won't be roped into a "you got a problem with gays, dude?" conversation, because I don't have a problem with gays. I couldn't care less about another persons sexual orientation.

I guess you missed that.

Originally posted by Annee
~snip~

What does "protect their interests" mean?

You keep sticking these innuendos in your posts - - - then talking all around them saying nothing.

Innuendo? I thought it was obvious, but if I need to spell it out, protect their interests as in "keep their membership numbers" which equals $$....somebody all ready went into it earlier.

See, not everybody is as open minded as you and I, so if the BSA suddenly allowed gays, many parents would likely pull their boys out. Do you agree that if this happened it would hurt their interests? Their bottom line? (no pun intended) I think you do.

Now this doesn't mean that's what I personally think would happen, just that the people in charge of BSA have considered it a likely outcome and made their decision accordingly.

Now lets talk about what YOU keep doing (please stop, BTW)....and that is trying to rope me into making some homo-phobic, anti-gay confession that just isn't in me to be made. I support gay rights, gay marriage, all sorts of gay stuff.

I also support the BSA's right and your right to allow, or disallow whomever you wish to come into your house.

Simple as that. I'm not out to change your mind, just stating my opinions.

Originally posted by tjack

Originally posted by Annee
~snip~
Why don't you just come out and say - - - you don't want gays in Boy Scouts.

Nice try, but...

Originally posted by tjack
I won't be roped into a "you got a problem with gays, dude?" conversation, because I don't have a problem with gays. I couldn't care less about another persons sexual orientation.

I guess you missed that.

No - - I did not miss anything. I am not missing anything.

Your wording speaks loud and clear - - - even though you try to hide it.

You can't make a post - - - without putting a "little" dig in.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

DONE. It's rare that I "ping pong" post. Got a little carried away.

If people have a problem, then start your own all-inclusive club and compete with the BSA. Good luck. You can't expect every club to just conform to everyone else's standards.

reply to post by tjack


And what does any of those things have to do with sexual orientation?

I don't believe people should be excluded for non issues.

Say you wanted to start a snake wrangling cult. You don't want children for safety reasons, that makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by tjack

 

~snip~

I don't believe people should be excluded for non issues.

~snip~

edit on 20-7-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

I agree with you. But I don't run the BSA so it's not my decision.

It seems to me there's not many people on this thread capable of supporting someone else's decision unless it's in agreement with their own.

Originally posted by Annee
~snip~

You can't make a post - - - without putting a "little" dig in.

Oh come on now.....I've only got 1 dig in by my count and that's the "(no pun intended)" remark following "bottom line" a few posts above. And even that wasn't a dig, per se, it was just me being a little tongue-in-cheek. (har har?) My poor attempt at a little gay humor. I'm just as happy to dig on myself too, though, after all, if we can't laugh and joke together, what's left?

Don't lose the humor, a good friend of mine always says.

If you're reading digs in all my posts, I would contend that it's "you" projecting your own negative feelings into what I'm writing.

I came to this thread and saw wholesale Boy Scouts of America bashing going on. BSA happens to be the organization to which I give the most credit to my success as a productive citizen of the USA, and achieving the rank of Eagle is still, to this day, one of my proudest accomplishments, so of course I'm not going to sit idly by and take it. (oops)

I think it's completely inappropriate and over-blowing (whoah) the situation by comparing them to KKK and Nazi Germany. Totally reeks of "butt-hurt" to me.

(tee hee)

Kindly,
TJack

p.s. I love George Takei! You know, in a heterosexual, Star Trek fan kind of way.

Just sayin'

Originally posted by tjack

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by tjack

 

So then now they are learning that it is actually limited to who you find acceptable.

No, they're learning outdoor survival skills, meal planning, knot tying, first aid, citizenship, etc....

I'm curious, do you think that everyone should be required to find everyone else acceptable? And that every group should be required to allow everyone to join? No exceptions? Is that even possible given human nature?

So from what Annee posted, they're training them to be "soldiers" and to do as they're told. Little kids being taught how to be military minded and follow orders even if it goes against what they think or feel....

..... we've seen this before haven't we?

They're telling you it's "survival skills" and how to be "good citizens" but now their names are on file with the military, those folks know who has been trained and who hasn't and who to recruit when the police state comes round don't they?

....probably have them turn their parents and neighbors in for things done against what the "state" considers acceptable, they'll be the ones holding the guns at the concentration camps....

(delving into the mentality we're dealing with here to make it hit home)

Originally posted by TKDRL
If people have a problem, then start your own all-inclusive club and compete with the BSA. Good luck. You can't expect every club to just conform to everyone else's standards.

Nah, just infiltrate and take it over from within.... it's the "American Way" afterall....

Boy Scouts just never really meant that much to me and I'm much more proud of being a Kentucky Colonel (even though that Sanders guy was pretty rough on chitens ) than being an Eagle Scout.... it means much, much more and doesn't conform to somebody else's way of doing things. It's a recognition for doing things on your own terms that helps others.

it's not something that's strived for, it's a recognition made "after the fact" for altruistic contributions made to society. A much more admirable thing as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry I haven't caught up on the posts that have happened since my last entry, I've been working long hours and ATS was the last thing I wanted to look at after a long stressful shift. I will catch up and try to respond to as many posts as I can. For now I will post something I wrote down last night while struggling to sleep at 3am. Sorry if I repeat myself, I was exhausted but needed to sleep and this was on my mind too much so I wrote it down.

Petrus4, (Keep in mind I've only read your first response and your second response back. This also applies to more then just Petrus4 though) There you go proclaiming your hatred towards another Human. Yes I know there are extremists in the LGBT community, hell which group doesn't have extremists ruining the reputation and credibility of peaceful humans? They are everywhere.

Why do you, or anyone else, think that homosexuality is wrong and have a hate on for them? Because someone knew about how to keep their power in line and the people from rebelling by creating a division amongst the people by putting it in the Bible. What does one do when faced with a larger, stronger force then you? Divide & Conquer. It's been done countless times through out History.

Keep your subjects in line and from rebelling and overthrowing you by creating fear and hate amongst them. That way they are too busy fighting each other to be paying attention to what is happening and not fighting for their Freedom. The Government has been hard at work creating such a division amongst the people of the world. Look at how many people we are afraid of or hate. Hate and fear passed on through generations.

Turn on any MSM and see who the "small minority" group is right now. Who is it today, LGBT, African Americans, small organizations? Doesn't matter, they are aiding in our conditioning, getting us used to thinking of the world being made of small minority groups instead of thinking of ourselves as the single functioning force that we are.

Think about what we could accomplish if we, every single person in the whole world, united together to remove our Government and worked on each problem together. Don't believe me, think about it on a smaller scale. Think about when something tragic happens, a big tornado tearing through a community, destroying lives and everything in it's path. What happens next, people come together to help rebuild and repair the damage.

Our Freedom is in a Sate of Emergency! We need to unite together and stop hating other Humans. That is exactly what TPTB want. Doesn't matter if it's LGBT, Asians, African Americans, Muslims, Jews, doesn't matter, you are hating another Human being. I'm calling a spade a spade. No sugar coating it. Every Human deserves to be live their life Freely, to have all the basic needs of life Free. Life is precious. When you hate another Human you are just playing in favor of TPTB.

That is why I said that if you must not be awake right now, because if you were awake you would see that hating another group of Humans is another win for TPTB and another loss for Freedom & Humanity.