you know, it's a good thing that the Germans (mostly Hitler) made some stupid decisions, because he had the very real capability to do everything he desired

Just imagine if the Germans had followed the allies line of thinking and building a massive strategic air force.
No matter where Stalin moved his factories these planes would always have been in range to bomb them.

The Soviets main aid route through Iran would also have been easilty threatened. It is indeed one of those what if situations.

this could have won the war. they might have even been able to bombthe usa in time and take over the world

Estragon: Ever heard about the Kikka?

It looks alot like a B-29 i find. It could had really a terrible punch if the germans bombed NYC or washington. What is the bombload it carries?

Impreessive plane. Could have turned the war around.....but luckley it never happened. Gee.....I wonder where they got that Idea from.....not the B-29 Superfortress ofcourse..........but hey it might have been the other way around

It reminds me of the Soviet Era Russian Bear TU-95

Originally posted by necro99
Estragon: Ever heard about the Kikka?

It looks alot like a B-29 i find. It could had really a terrible punch if the germans bombed NYC or washington. What is the bombload it carries?

The bomb load would vary of course. The scary thing is they could have mated this bomber with their nerve agents ( ie. Sarin, Tabun etc ). They could have made large swaths of the US unlivable whilst killing millions of citizens.

It was damn lucky for the allies that Germany never used it's nerve gasses as the England could quite easily have been blanketted in gas and destroyed. Considering that they made and stockpiled 1000's of tonnes of gas which was never used.

Yeah and england would just be a stepping stone towards the U.S. We probably wouldn't fall but the loss of life would be horrific

The Nakajima Kikka was a fascinating plane, necro, and it's interesting to speculate what would have happened had it gone into production earlier and had the Japs had the resources, fuel to use it.
I wonder however if this is the plane that you're thinking of: it was the Japanese clone of the Me 262 a relatively small fighter-bomber and nothing at all like the B29 or any other bomber.
Perhaps tehre's another one that you were thinking of.

Just imagine if the Japanese would have utilized them as Kamikaze fighters!

Go to the library and find yourself a copy of William Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich" or a copy of Smith and Kay's "German Aircraft of the Second World War". Allocation of resources to develope such projects (Me 264, Ju 390, and the Ta 400) was a mistake because it took engineering talent from more useful projects. The problem was that the German aircraft industry did not have sufficent resources to be able to build enough aircraft such as the Me 264 to be an effective bombing force. Remember that Focke Wulf was barely able to build enough FW 200's to maintain a staffel. Speer's ministry once calculated that for what one aircraft such as the Me 264 would take, four Ju 88's could be built. What was basically needed was a Fernaufklarungs Flugzueg to coordinate with U-boat operations in the Atlantic. The He 177 would have adequately fulfilled the requirements of such an aircraft had its technical difficulties be eliminated earlier in its development history. The He 177 could have also been employed as a Langstrecken-Grossbomber for raids into the Urals had its reliablity problems been resolved earlier. (The He 177 performance figures were comparable to a B-17). Again the German aircraft industry had problems in production of such an aircraft (managing to build only 565 aircraft in 1944).

I've just finished a book called ' The Wild ' bu Stephen Ambrose. It centers on the 15th Air Force in Italy flying B-24's.
The biggest problem the US had in the early stages of the war was training enough crews to man the bombers. So setting up a heavy bomber force takes considerable time.
However if the Germans had chosen to build this aircraft, then it would have posed a significant strategic threat.
What if the German's had decided to build a strategic bomber force back in 1940. By 42-43 they could have laid waste to the protected Soviet industrial cities east of the Urals.

I put this post here just to show what the Nazi's may have been able to produce if they had adequate resources and time.

Such an aircraft was available in 1939, the He 177 which first flew on 19 November, 1939. Production aircraft could have been coming off the assembly lines in 1941 had Heinkel been able to eradicate the technical problems of the He 177. (One problem was that the coupled engines had a propensity to burst into flames at the slightest inclination.) Also Messerschmitt was not a logical choice for building a large aircraft. His basic exprience was with smaller aircaft. Junkers and Heinkel were more experienced with large aircraft (Ju 89, Ju 90, Ju 290, Ju 390). In the case of the Me 264, it is doubtful if the German aircraft industry could have built it in sufficent quantities to be a viable bombing force.

Of the Nazi's made the decison to build it before the war then they could easily have built them in sufficient quantity. It all comes down to a matter of priorities, fortunatley this bomber ranked down the bottom. If the Nazi's had had the ambitions of a strategic bombing force then they would have built it.

They didn't have the f**king manpower to do it. The He 177 would have done the job if it had been available earlier in the war with sufficent quantities and relability to perform its missions. The effectivenss of stragetic missions during WW 2 is open to question. Production of Me 109's and FW 190's reached their height in 1944 during the bombing campaign of the US Eigth Air Force. Tactical aircraft such as the Ju 88, the Fw 190, the Me 109, and the Fw 189 were needed to support Whermacht (and of course Waffen SS) operations in the East. The problem was not the lack of a specific type of weapon or flawed military stategy. The war would be won or lost in the East. Had the war against the Soviet Union been won by Germany, then Germany could have withstood any onslaught from the West (USA and UK). What lost the war in the East, was not the lack of any weapon or the problem of flawed military stategy, but the policy of "Slavs are Slaves". In the first part of the war, Germans were viewed as liberators in the Unkraine and other parts of the Soviet Union (many people in those regions had had their fill of Stalin's policies). However rather than catering to the national desires of these people, it was made obvious that their status was to be slaves (thanks to the Gestopo and the Waffen SS Sonderkommando). Rather than having an effective man power force for continued operations against Russia, the Germans lost the support of the people. Once the people of the Soviet Union (Russians, Slavs, Ukranians) realized what was in store for them if the Nazis won (slavery, national annilhation, death camps) they were going to win regardless of what the Germans threw at them. Even if aircraft such as the Me 264 had been made available armed with A-bombs, the people of the Soviet Union would have still continued the war against the Germans. For the people of the Soviet Union, the choice was simple: Fight and Win or Die. Given that, a few long range bombers would not have changed the outcome on the Eastern Front.

Hey you don't have to lecture me on the Eastern Front. I've been to Russia 3 times to pursue my interest in the Ost Front. It was incredible having a look at Volgagrad and still being able to see German and Russian pillboxes.

The Soviets were only able to hold on due to massive aid from the US ( the Studebaker made the Soviet Army mobile )and their ability to move their industrial base east of the Urals. Without these 2 factors they would have only been able to sustain lightly armed forces, no match for the Wehrmacht

Then the names Rudel, Hartmann, Barkhorn, Rall, Kittel, Nowontny would be known to you Mad Scientist. I hear the Ruskies still spit and curse when they hear Rudel's name.

I can't remeber if it was Rudel or Hartman who won the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross with golden oak leaves ,diamonds and swords.
Whichever one it was he destroyed over 350 AFV's on the Eastern Front.