BIG NEWS- Arpaio: Obama birth record 'definitely fraudulent'

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
And I'll just repeat it for you - a copy of the birth certificate off the internet is not evidential because it is off the internet - why is that so hard for you to understand? IIRC to be evidential a document has to be an original or a certified copy - if evidence was required (which it was NOT), then a certified copy needs to be presented.

What is so funny is birthers somehow think the PDF is Obama's actual birth certificate, even after it has been explained to them many many times. They just refuse to accept reality!

The whole birther argument is not about any bit of paper Obama produces.

reply to post by mortalengine


As has been discussed a million times by real experts, there's many many off the shelf applications that do this by default. Expecting that a conspiracy theorists would look at the PDF of a document from the Hawaiian government, and then verified as real by the Hawaiian government, would be called a fake (which is itself unconstitutional) - expecting that, and making sure OCR was turned off to pre-emptively prevent that, is insane.

But trying to predict what lie is gonna come out of a liars mouth next is tough work.

So, I think we're at, on this thread:

Debunked birther BS: 200
Actual birther evidence: 0


And yet, no matter how many times people post debunked stuff, the birthers never learn.

reply to post by spoor


I only half think that people are this stupid; I do think a lot of it is just people spreading propaganda...

I mean, if I took a picture of you, and then brought that picture to court, and put it up on the stand to testify, people would think I was nuts... after all, a picture of a person isn't the same thing AS the person...

unless you're a birther...

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
The only evidence released by Barry and his handlers was the supposed long form BC that is a digital copy and not even legitimately admissible as evidence in a court of law.

Of course you ignore the certified copy of Obama's birth certificate thathe released in 2008....

It is a copy that normally accepted as valid

Wrong again - Hawaii no longer issues long form birth certificates - a fact you would know if you had bothered to do some research!

it is an authorized copy when it is first released...
However when it comes time to scrutinize it in a court of law, HIS OWN ATTORNEY argues that it is NOT VALID.

So do you think that Hawaii issues long form BC's as a PDF on the internet?

It doesn't make sense.

It makes sense if you knew what you were talking about - but it is very obvious you are very confused and have no clue at all what you are on about.

Originally posted by Emergingtruth
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

I accept the findings of Sheriff Arpaio's investigation, and Barry Soetoro Obama knows that his BC posted on the White House website is a fraud, and he knows his social security number is tied to someone named Harrison J. Bounell. But the thing is he knows that if you bring up the issue of the BC then the government propaganda machine called the media will play the race card, in order to belittle the claims and evidence presented. This not only causes the American public to unwittingly dismiss Sheriff Arpaio's investigation but this also gives more support for Obama by his supporters.

In my opinion, Obama was chosen by the elite puppet masters, so that anything done by Obama will not be questioned as much as would prior Presidents concerning their actions while in Office. Congress impeached Bill Clinton because he lied under Oath to Congress for having a sexual relationship with another woman, but they won't impeach Barack Obama because they know if they do, then they will be labeled racists by all of Obama's supporters and it may cause mass riots and protests for all the wrong reasons.

Same old retreaded BS:

The only place they share the same SSN was a credit rating website... and if you watch that idiots video it's pretty obvious that it's a glitch on their site, nothing more...

In fact it reminds me a lot of that other debunked birther lie, that Obama's own website said he was born n two different places...

Ahhh birthers and your paranoid fantasies...

reply to post by The Sword


It's political propaganda that plays on the simple-minded and the delusional ideologues... no matter how many times their side has been shown to lie, they still believe every new lie... or, they spread the lies to try and hurt Obama...

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by mortalengine

 

As has been discussed a million times by real experts, there's many many off the shelf applications that do this by default. Expecting that a conspiracy theorists would look at the PDF of a document from the Hawaiian government, and then verified as real by the Hawaiian government, would be called a fake (which is itself unconstitutional) - expecting that, and making sure OCR was turned off to pre-emptively prevent that, is insane.

But trying to predict what lie is gonna come out of a liars mouth next is tough work.

That doesn't seem to make much sense to me, what are these programs and why would OCR be 'turned on' by default ?
We're talking about scanning a hard-copy, can you image what happens when OCR is enabled by default by your physical scanning device ? - Yes you're right, it fails miserably when pictures and tables are present, not to mention when text is superimposed over the images. So basically, OCR is usually NOT enabled by default but rather left to the user to decide whether or not the scan should employ text recognition technology. For everyone else there is software like Omnipage which will take your already scanned document in PDF/JPG/TIF format and do a software OCR scan on that and produce a word document, both methods fail miserably when tables or graphics of any kind are muddled in with the text. OCR fails even MORE miserably when you're trying to scan handwritten text - L's come through as 1's, S's come through as 5's - and on and on.

Originally posted by kyviecaldges
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Arpaio, OTOH, is just repeating long debunked claims - possibly knowing they are false. He should be prosecuted for malfaesance or fraud I reckon.

Well then riddle me this batman...
Why did Barry's own attorney argue that his long form BC, which Arpaio claims is fraudulent, should not be admitted as evidence.
Barry's own attorney, Ms. Hill, argued that it is not valid in a court of law because it is a digital copy and quite possibly not accurate.

Of course we'll never know because the judge agreed with her and ruled that it was in fact NOT valid evidence.

If this is all true, then how can you know that it has been successfully debunked?

patiently waiting.

edit on 18/7/2012 by kyviecaldges because: (no reason given)

For example.

This ^^^ is the kind of crazy illogical nonsense that only an ideologue could believe... or someone spreading political propaganda...

no rational person could reach this conclusion, if they're being honest...

reply to post by mortalengine


Google: scanning software - then also get a copy of all the software thta comes with all the different scanners being sold...

Most of the software is basic at best and if the scanner is mostly use to scan documents, and if it LOOKED good after it was scanned, why would you go any further?

To convince people that can't be convinced?

Look at it a different way - now that you see how it could happen, completely innocently, and seeing that most of the layers are completely random things, not important fields, etc., why choose to try and find a nefarious conspiracy?

You have a simple logical answer, backed up by facts and the federal government and the state of Hawaii's government.

The alternative is not based up by fact, but by conjecture... and many of the so-called experts the birthers have conjured up to prove this themselves post lies about the document.. so... why are you trying to follow a bunch of liars down a rabbit hole, based on no evidence?

Great link here explaining how Joe and his gang lied again:

blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...

This link needs to be in all birther threads until people cop on.

More of Joe - Part 2, debunked here:

www.thefogbow.com...

This link goes through and debunks every single one of Joe's new claims, one at a time, it also shows where some of this stuff has been debunked for months already... and is not new evidence...

Go read this and then decide who's lying... Joe and his ideological posse, of the State of Hawaii..

Lots of examples of birhers lying and manufacturing evidence:

www.obamaconspiracy.org...

reply to post by longlostbrother


Fair enough dude, I'm not really on either side - it's just interesting how this is being allowed to go on and on when it's a simple matter of just getting the darn original and presenting it, not using an underpaid secretary to willy-nilly scan the document in and email it out. Can you imagine if you were tasked with retrieving the POTUS' birth certificate from the vaults, scanning and emailing it out ? I'm pretty sure the person they used would have been very senior and obviously very professional, not to mention they would have been under a very watchful eye, God forbid the document accidentally never gets returned to the vaults..... Although that would make for a brilliant excuse right ?

To be fair, I live in South Africa man, I wish our biggest gripe with the president was his place of birth. Just remember - no matter how screwed you guys think you are over there, you cannot begin to imagine the debacle that is our current state of political affairs, additionally about 3/4's of our government are ex-con's ( and not for political reasons.)

Now before everyone jumps to conclusions and starts connecting the wrong dots, I have no stance for or against BO BC being real or fraudulent and just because I'm from South Africa doesn't mean I'm racist. I'm just very interested in this whole BO story. I find too many parts of all of this to be weird. You guys go to war over OSAMA, then elect a president OBAMA with the middle name Hussein, who's father is a muslim apparently but somehow he was born in Kenya but maried a white woman who gave birth in Hawaii... you see already im going cross-eyed.... Am I the only person who finds all of this to be ... bizarre ? - "I feel like im taking crazy pills!" _javascript:icon('')

reply to post by mortalengine


I know, you don't seem like one of the crazy birther ideologues... you seem to be puzzled by why such a simple screw-up was allowed to happen, and that's fair enough... my position is that, based on alllll the birther lies I've seen, I don't trust any of their evidence, but I still always go and check it out...

I would, and have, said in the past, if I can't explain something, then I have no opinion on it's validity... I am NOT a huge Obama fan at all... but I just hate political propaganda...

It's just another battle in a long line of a disgusting two party system. When Bush was in office, Democrats attacked his military service record and claimed he did coc aine. Now Obama is President, the Republicans will claim that his birth certificate is not valid.

What a joke. None of this has to do with politics, and has everything to do with distracting people from the real issues. Our economy is beyond repair, even the Fed chairman Bernanke seems to think so. news.yahoo.com...

We also have an impeding war with Iran, presumable over oil.

Not to mention the security faults at the Olympics in London indicates that an attack (internal or external) is a likely possibility to spark another war.

This game (hard to call it politics) is a strictly American drama, played out in front of us on the MSM to keep us preoccupied and from focusing on the real issues at hand.

reply to post by Wooster


Bush probably DID do Cocaine:

Cocaine In Fortunate Son, Bush biographer Hatfield quoted several anonymous sources regarding allegations of Bush's coc aine use. Hatfield reported that Bush had been arrested for coc aine possession in 1972 and that his father pulled strings to have records of the arrest expunged.[14] Bush campaign spokesperson Mindy Tucker called the allegation "absolutely untrue".[15] Bush repeatedly refused to state whether he had ever used coc aine.[16] Bush did say in 1999 that he could truthfully answer "no" to the then-standard FBI background check question of whether he had used any illegal drug in the last seven years. He later stated that he could have passed a background check under a policy that his father had instituted as President in 1989 that extended the background check to 15 years. This would have checked back to 1974, two years after the alleged 1972 arrest.[17]

en.wikipedia.org...

For someone starting multiple wars, his own military service was sketchy, at best:

en.wikipedia.org...

It is amazing how IGNORANT americans are, instead of writing this piece of creap post, about obama birth place, you should be talking about BIGGER issues, we all know obama is black, and better than the last 3 presidents

Let's assume for one second that Joe Arpaio isn't just making this up to support a previously held hypothesis that would make him look stupid if he turned out to be wrong.

Am I really the only one that would rather have fake-American Barack Obama over real-American and human-impersonator Mitt Romney?

Originally posted by longlostbrother
reply to post by Wooster

 

Bush probably DID do Cocaine:

Cocaine In Fortunate Son, Bush biographer Hatfield quoted several anonymous sources regarding allegations of Bush's coc aine use. Hatfield reported that Bush had been arrested for coc aine possession in 1972 and that his father pulled strings to have records of the arrest expunged.[14] Bush campaign spokesperson Mindy Tucker called the allegation "absolutely untrue".[15] Bush repeatedly refused to state whether he had ever used coc aine.[16] Bush did say in 1999 that he could truthfully answer "no" to the then-standard FBI background check question of whether he had used any illegal drug in the last seven years. He later stated that he could have passed a background check under a policy that his father had instituted as President in 1989 that extended the background check to 15 years. This would have checked back to 1974, two years after the alleged 1972 arrest.[17]

en.wikipedia.org...

For someone starting multiple wars, his own military service was sketchy, at best:

en.wikipedia.org...

So what? What bearing does that have on his ability as a leader? This is not politics, it's propaganda. Clinton was one of the best Presidents we've had in years, but he was completely ruined because of something that he did in his personal life with Monika. Instead of remembering him as a great President, we will remember him as a dirty cheater. Sure, he did cheat, but that's his life. The Republicans attacked him as payback for the Nixon Watergate scandal and how the democrats let that drag on and pumped propaganda into that incident for years.

This two party system in America is not politics, it's just a theatre play.