BIG NEWS- Arpaio: Obama birth record 'definitely fraudulent'

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


You have made numerous accusatory and inflammatory statements that do not in any way reflect the reality of the situation.
I believe the entire point of the debate is this...
Obama's place of birth is unknown.

That is as far as anyone should go.

The evidence of an Obama birth in Kenya is equally as nebulous as the evidence of an Obama birth in Hawaii.
However, I find it very difficult, especially in light of the fact that an elected state official has gone on record stating that he, in fact, believes what numerous experts have said since this supposed long form birth certificate was released.

It's a fake.

More than enough evidence, or should I say a lack of quality evidence, exists to justify an accurate and effective joint civilian-government investigation with an unlimited budget and unlimited subpoena power.
But that probably won't happen, and you want to know why?
Because judges continue to throw out these cases, which you like to refer using the pejorative "birther", but they are NOT doing so because he has been proven a natural born citizen.

In fact, Obama's own lawyer admitted in a court of law that the internet copy of the birth certificate is not sufficient to admit as evidence, and instead of simply providing the original birth certificate, his lawyer used this defense as a tap dance to win his eligibility case.

Why is it such a problem to simply provide a valid legitimate long form birth certificate?
Naturally, the common sense answer would be that one simply does not exist...
Because he was not born in Hawaii, but this is not possible to prove because of his lawyers continual bob and weave.

No, it has not been proven that Obama is Kenyan, but is has shore NOT been proven that he is NATURAL BORN American.

I challenge YOU to prove that he is eligible.

Because you will not be able.
Let's look at some of your quotes.

Their confirmation bias is off the charts...

And you would know a thing or two about confirmation bias.
Instead of saying "I don't know", like someone with a true understanding of logic and reason would do, you continue the same tap dance as his attorneys.

Tell me...how many Birther cases have been tossed out of courts around the nation???

Every single one, but yet not one has also been dismissed because of prima fascia evidence contradicting the charge that he is NOT a natural born citizen.

You are being played...and you don't even realize it...it's actually very sad to watch.

Your shill-like behavior is very sad to watch.

Did you watch the press conference? I did, they presented no evidence.

What they did was show that the evidence claimed to be legit by the Obama administration is NOT LEGIT.
This is not evidence to show that he was born in Kenya, but it is also NOT evidence proving that he was born in the US.

This has already been acknowledged in court.

My question is this-
Why would Barry and his folks go to such great lengths to try and persuade Americans with evidence that has not only been shown to be doctored but does not even meet the criteria as valid evidence in a court of law?

Hey...feel free to educate me.

Thus the point of this post. Pay attention.

Please, go and do this, and I will be eagerly waiting to point all your logical errors and faulty reasoning.

Your smug arrogance betrays your lack of substance.

The only argument that you have is the fact that every piece of evidence that exists concerning his birth is questionably dubious.
And yet you seem perfectly fine with the fact that a sitting president appears to be hiding something, very obviously.
But we can't know this for sure because he won't go on record under oath; however, his people seem to want to convince the masses with evidence that has obviously been manipulated.

Obama's mother, Obama's grandmother, two newspapers in Hawaii...

Both individuals are dead and federal courts have decided that newspapers are not constitutionally obligated to tell the truth.

Of course, he could clear everyone's name simply by releasing a valid, original long form birth certificate.

Sorry...I'm not into Birther games...

Then why do you frequent the subject with such emotional fervor?
It's almost like you have a vested interest in creating more smoke and mirrors?

And shouldn't you follow your own standards and demand the original hard copies of both documents instead of a scanned computer image that can be easily forged?

Yes.
Your bias is so obvious that it is painful to watch.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I won't believe it until an unbiased independent investigation comes to the same conclusion.

This investigation is tainted with confirmation bias all the way. It could be true but it could be spin as well. There could be missing explanations. But would they consider those? Probably not...

They were looking for damning evidence when they should have been looking for the truth.

Conspiracy: This is all orchestrated by the Obama administration to get the GOP and the republicans to rally around the issue. Once they are rallied, Obama releases a "clean" birth certificate and makes them all look stupid and discredits them and their judgement.

reply to post by Batus1


I even have PROOF!!! The Arizona Posse uncovered this!!!

There's no smoke without fire.

Is the President of the United States is an American! It's absolutely insane!

If there was even the smallest doubt of his nationality he should never have been allowed to assume office. These things should be proven beyond a reasonable doubt well in advance.

By the way, this was done just two days before a civil rights case on him was about to start on Thursday.
And nobody but me finds this suspicious at all.

How telling.

reply to post by PurpleChiten

You seem a little overzealous in your lampooning of this issue. I can't decide whether you're just collecting stars, or seriously trying to make us ignore any evidence which is contrary to the official position...

Originally posted by XeroOne
Funny, I don't remember anyone checking George Bush's birth certificate.

Really? Are YOU part of the congressional committee that validates and confirms all of the background research and observation for the candidates as they submit their applications to run? And are you even remotely capable of fleshing out that from the start, his records were SEALED and was thrust into the position by "The Powers That Be", causing all of this uproar from patriots and people PAYING ATTENTION? This goes to show you that the majority of Americans are NOT paying attention to fundamental, key qualifiers for their President. People that don't question his ID or past are cattle and deserve a Manchurian Candidate - The rest of us, demand representation and accountability of our "chosen" leadership.

Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

You seem a little overzealous in your lampooning of this issue. I can't decide whether you're just collecting stars, or seriously trying to make us ignore any evidence which is contrary to the official position...

Nah, just having some fun on a rainy day

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I think that most people appreciate humor, but your schtick is getting old.

This concerns possible treasonous behavior.

If you are naturally the kind of person who likes to use the absurd to cope with anxiety when confronted with possible terrifyingly life altering situations, then acknowledged.
I just hope to see the same behavior out of you in the next holocaust thread.

Originally posted by superman2012

Originally posted by XeroOne
Funny, I don't remember anyone checking George Bush's birth certificate.

Funny, I don't remember anyone even questioning if he was a US citizen or not. They sure asked McCain. Was this your first attempt at trying to play the 'race card'? If it was, good try, if not, well, try harder.

According to the "original" Constitution, you have to be a "Natural born American Citizen" and NOT a "U.S. citizen". The spelling and capitalization IS VERY important. You MUST be born on American soil, which is vastly different than "U.S." soil which includes military bases in foreign nations!! McCain was NOT elligible, he was born in Panama on a military base which was NOT "American soil". Specifics are very important to comprehend when we talk about legal matters. But the original Constitution has been buried by 4 others. Does anyone know that?

No, just a few of us. Sad people do not pay attention.

reply to post by kyviecaldges

However, I find it very difficult, especially in light of the fact that an elected state official has gone on record stating that he, in fact, believes what numerous experts have said since this supposed long form birth certificate was released.

It's a fake.

Please...show us who these "experts" are that said it was a fake. And for the love of God...don't put up the youtube lady who claims she is an expert.

You see...it's easy for you to say "numerous experts"...but you fail to identify any of them. Sorry...but you are just trying to peddle the same ol' BS that every other Birther is trying to sell.

In fact, Obama's own lawyer admitted in a court of law that the internet copy of the birth certificate is not sufficient to admit as evidence, and instead of simply providing the original birth certificate, his lawyer used this defense as a tap dance to win his eligibility case.

That entire case was based off the internet copy of the BC...that is all the attorney needed to do to get the case dismissed.

Here...I accuse you of being a mass murderer...my evidence is that I have a picture of a hand written note signed by you that says you did it. Now...do you simply prove that my evidence is bunk...or do you fall into the trap and try to prove a negative of that you are NOT a murderer???

Little thing called "innocent until proven guilty"...yeah...that is why Obama doesn't have to PROVE he is innocent. It is up to Birthers to come up with a shred of factual evidence to prove he is guilty...which they have failed at doing so over and over and over.

I challenge YOU to prove that he is eligible.

I don't have to...the United States government and every one of the 50 States have already proven that for me.

Now...get on with your evidence that proves your claim...oh right...you have none.

Thus the point of this post. Pay attention.

You failed...everything you just spouted is common Birther mythology. You are saying nothing new here skippy...but you sure do seem to think that you have made some brilliant discoveries

Your smug arrogance betrays your lack of substance.

The only argument that you have is the fact that every piece of evidence that exists concerning his birth is questionably dubious.
And yet you seem perfectly fine with the fact that a sitting president appears to be hiding something, very obviously.
But we can't know this for sure because he won't go on record under oath; however, his people seem to want to convince the masses with evidence that has obviously been manipulated.

What in the hell are you talking about?

I accept the VALID evidence, the two BC's he showed, the testimony from the State of Hawaii, and the judgement from court case after court case.

Obama is a Natural Born Citizen and thus is eligible as proven by multiple documents and testimony by Government officials.

If you have a problem with that...prove them wrong in a court of law...it's as simple as that.

reply to post by Deetermined


You mean these other people are getting paid??? I want my check!

Rule # 27: When your argument falls apart, accuse the other side of being shills!

Originally posted by Deetermined
I have no doubt that Obama's "Truth Team" has been out in full force during this election trying to counter all of the negative attention that Obama continually gets.

Gosh, I guess there's a "Lie Team", too, then. You know, the people who are out in full force during this election trying to generate all of the negative attention toward Obama. Sound familiar??

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I agree. And I should at least get a little bit of pay for comic relief if nothing more

getting a bit boring... hitting the science threads for the cool stuff

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

Little thing called "innocent until proven guilty"...yeah...that is why Obama doesn't have to PROVE he is innocent. It is up to Birthers to come up with a shred of factual evidence to prove he is guilty...which they have failed at doing so over and over and over.

Kind of hard when he uses Executive Orders to hide all of his records as well as abusing them to hide documentation on Fast and Furious.

Do you think America hasn't figured him out yet?

When there's something to hide, by all means, write up an Executive Order!!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


My argument hasn't fallen apart.

Your ability to reason obviously has.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher

I don't have to...the United States government and every one of the 50 States have already proven that for me.

The 50 states didn't do squat but accept a Certificate of Nomination from the DNC.

reply to post by daddio


So define natural born citizen.

You keep bringing this up but what does it mean exactly?

Oh, I know.

He must be born on the continent only, and absolutely nowhere else in the world right? And must be white.

Well, you are very wrong.

In 2011, a Congressional Research Service Report Stated:

The weight of legal and historical authority indicates that the term “natural born” citizen would mean a person who is entitled to U.S. citizenship “by birth” or “at birth,” either by being born “in” the United States and under its jurisdiction, even those born to alien parents; by being born abroad to U.S. citizen-parents; or by being born in other situations meeting legal requirements for U.S. citizenship “at birth.” Such term, however, would not include a person who was not a U.S. citizen by birth or at birth, and who was thus born an “alien” required to go through the legal process of “naturalization” to become a U.S. citizen.

^ "Qualifications for President and the 'Natural Born' Citizenship Eligibility Requirement". Congressional Research Service report. Federation of American Scientists. November 14, 2011. p. 2. Retrieved February 25, 2012.

Here's the full PDF:

www.fas.org...

But I'm sure you'll just ignore it in favor of your belief and won't change your mind.

The term “natural born” citizen is not defined in the Constitution, and there is no discussion of the term evident in the notes of the Federal Convention of 1787. The use of the phrase in the Constitution may have derived from a suggestion in a letter from John Jay to George Washington during the Convention expressing concern about having the office of Commander-in-Chief “devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen,” as there were fears at that time about wealthy European aristocracy or royalty coming to America, gaining citizenship, and then buying and scheming their way to the presidency without long-standing loyalty to the nation. At the time of independence, and at the time of the framing of the Constitution, the term “natural born” with respect to citizenship was in use for many years in the American colonies, and then in the states, from British common law and legal usage. Under the common law principle of jus soli (law of the soil), persons born on English soil, even of two alien parents, were “natural born” subjects and, as noted by the Supreme Court, this “same rule” was applicable in the American colonies and “in the United States afterwards, and continued to prevail under the Constitution ...” with respect to citizens. In textual constitutional analysis, it is understood that terms used but not defined in the document must, as explained by the Supreme Court, “be read in light of British common law” since the Constitution is “framed in the language of the English common law.”

Eh, why should I bother. The birthers will just ignore any fact in support of Obama not being a Kenyan.