Arpaio Obama probe finds 'national security threat'

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by seenavv

if people would just analyze the birth certificate PDF it wreaks of a forgery,

Wrong again, you do not seem to realise that the PDF on the website IS NOT the birth certificate... birthers do not seem to understand that!

Correct. It was only presented AS his Birth Certificate.

Got us all on a technicality and minced words there genius.

Go YOU!

reply to post by MamaJ

Never did I say they dont matter! Never!

I thought everyone is sick of the US medeling in their affairs but its ok for them to medel in ours? If ya dont live here then why talk to ME about what I SHOULD BELIEVE WITHOUT PROOF? Worry about your own country and let me worry about mine! I LIVE HERE!!! MY KIDS LIVE HERE.... NOT IN ANOTHER COUNTRY!

An opinion is one thing, but shoving an opinion down my throat as if it were fact is not worthy of my time.

MamaJ

I am a Natural Born American Citizen, born in Detroit (same as RMoney) and grew up in Arizona (lived there longer than that blow-in Arpaio). I now live in Australia (only I've been here longer than Obama was in Indonesia). I vote in American elections (not Australian). I pay taxes in both America and Australia. I have just as much right as vent my opinion as you and just as much right to tell you you are wrong as you have to be wrong.

I am frankly sick to the teeth of misinformed people from all over the world, especially Australia since I can hear it all the time, talking rubbish and lies about America when they don't know any better. But one of the reasons they don't know any better is because they can read and hear people like you spouting off misinformed half formed ideas and down right lies when you should definitely know better.

So get down off your high horse and start thinking for your self.

Don't you just love it when both sides of discussion tells the other to 'start thinking for yourself'? Doesn't it make you wonder which side is really stuck in 'sheeple' mode? Perhaps there is a clue in the arguments themselves.

Suppose one side says 'what about X?' and the other side says 'X was discussed long ago and here is the answer'.

Which side has more study and thinking to do? The questioning side or the answering side? And when the answer is shown, and the questioner goes back to the source of the question, finds that the source is ignoring the answer and looks no further, who is 'thinking for themselves'.
When one side

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by badgerpit

 

There are a lot of ways to kill this conversation, such as the presentation of the microfilm of the original birth certificate,

What makes you think there is any such thing as a microfilm record?

A year ago your statement would have read: "There are a lot of ways to kill this conversation, such as the presentation of the original long form birth certificate,"

That hasn't killed the one way conversation, because it isn't in the interests of the Obama haters to end the conversation no matter what evidence is supplied. If microfilm exists and is released, it will show exactly the same information as both birth certificates have already shown, and the Obama Haters will continue to shout forgery. They will probably demand DNA tests involving exhuming the bodies of his mother and father. NOTHING will kill the Obama Hater's Hate.

Make no mistake, it is the information on the birth certificate that is important and it is the information on the birth certificate that the Obama Haters are trying to distract you from, for the sole purpose of keeping the Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt bubbling away. It suits their purpose for ego stroking, attention whoring, pay-pal button pushing, and self-loathing.

About the microfilm; this was an example of a show stopper, I did not say that it existed only that proof of this variety brings the wagon to a halt.

You keep suggesting, over and over to people, that Obama's long form birth certificate is proof that he is a U.S. citizen but seem to be missing that there are some problems with this form. For those paying attention it seems that this form is only bringing up more questions than they are answering. I get it that you seem incredibly loyal to Mr. Obama for some reason but an objective view of this situation would call for more questioning, not less. You also continue to assume that anybody pursuing the validity of Mr. Obama citizen status is motivated by hate, and I want to suggest to you that this just isn't true. Very little emotion is required to see to it that whomever plays a game, plays by the rules. Why is it hard to agree to a process to verify if Mr. Obama is playing by the rules?

I am not very clear on your message from your last paragraph. It sounds angry at someone but I am not sure towards who. Actually, most of your posts are filled with high emotion and negativity. Is this case a personal one to you? I only want the facts of the matter and righted wrongs in the case of criminal action against the president and all his accomplices or full truth on the table, in favor of Mr. Obama, to put the case to bed. Both are possible.

reply to post by badgerpit

TAbout the microfilm; this was an example of a show stopper, I did not say that it existed only that proof of this variety brings the wagon to a halt.

You said it the controversy could be ended by presenting the microfilm. How could it be presented if it doesn't exist? How then could that end the controversy.

You keep suggesting, over and over to people, that Obama's long form birth certificate is proof that he is a U.S. citizen but seem to be missing that there are some problems with this form.

That is because there are no problems with the form. You (and by 'you' I mean you and the folks you are listening too because they are supporting your preconceived desire to find Obama somehow ineligible) are the one that keeps insisting that there is something wrong when there is zero reason to doubt it in anyway.

For those paying attention it seems that this form is only bringing up more questions than they are answering.

For those paying attention it seems obvious that every question that has been asked about the document has been answered and asked again and answered and asked again and answered and asked again and answered and asked again...

There is nothing there.

I get it that you seem incredibly loyal to Mr. Obama for some reason but an objective view of this situation would call for more questioning, not less.

You don't get anything at all. I am not loyal to President Obama in the way you are implying. He doesn't need that kind of 'help' from me.

If anything, I am protective of the Hawai'ian State officials which you are slandering and the everyday process of organizing out lives in the US. Someone else has said I can't be sure Obama was born in Hawai'i because I wasn't there, which is quite true. And that is exactly why we have Vital Records offices in each state to maintain that kind of evidence. If you call Hawai'i a liar, you are calling every state in the union a liar. If that is the case, why aren't you investigating Mitt Romney's birth certificate? Rick Santorum? Ron Paul? You weren't there at their births either, how do you know they aren't frauds?

You also continue to assume that anybody pursuing the validity of Mr. Obama citizen status is motivated by hate, and I want to suggest to you that this just isn't true. Very little emotion is required to see to it that whomever plays a game, plays by the rules. Why is it hard to agree to a process to verify if Mr. Obama is playing by the rules?

Because the process has been agreed to long ago, and President Obama has indeed played by all the rules. I repeat, if you are just innocently trying to ensure everybody is playing by the rules why aren't you investigating Mr. Romney's birth certificate? His certificate declares that it is void and has not been verified 10 times by the Michigan State government. Seems to me there are a lot of questions raised by his so-called birth certificate. Especially since he claims to have been born a short bridge trip from Canada to a Mexican born father.

I am not very clear on your message from your last paragraph. It sounds angry at someone but I am not sure towards who. Actually, most of your posts are filled with high emotion and negativity. Is this case a personal one to you? I only want the facts of the matter and righted wrongs in the case of criminal action against the president and all his accomplices or full truth on the table, in favor of Mr. Obama, to put the case to bed. Both are possible.

My message from the last paragraph entailed people telling me to think for myself after I asked them to think for themselves. I have looked at both sides of the argument, I have seen the questions and sought the answers. When I have found the answers I have ceased needing to ask the same questions over and over.

You are insisting that there are no answers 'yet'. But they are all there and have been for years. That you have not found them indicates that you are stuck looking in the same places. Places that have no interest in giving you the answers, only in keeping you ill-informed and vulnerable to their next brain wave.

Either that or you have no interest in the answers, just keeping the questions alive in the mind of other ill-informed folk in order to forward what ever agenda you have in mind.

And yes I have nothing but scorn for those people who purposely set out to lie and keep people uninformed about the true state of the world. They are frauds and cowards who cannot win with ideas and therefore try to win lies.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Could you cite exactly HOW he is using tax payer money for this?

Arpaio did end up using tax payer money for his investigation:

At first, Arpaio claimed no taxpayer money was going to be used in investigating the often-debunked Tea Party-inspired conspiracy theory.
But that quickly changed when the sheriff sent MCSO Deputy Brian Mackiewcz to Hawaii on the taxpayer's dime, accompanying "cold-case posse" volunteer and lead birther investigator Mike Zullo.

Saturday afternoon Channel 12's Brahm Resnik reported that for the deputy's 9-night stay at Honolulu's Ala Moana Hotel, the bill came to $1,323.

blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...

Now many would argue that the tax payer money used will be paid back by the Posse through their birther fund. However it still does not change the fact that they used tax payer money through the form of a tax payer funded Sheriff who accompanied them to Hawaii.

Originally posted by badgerpit
For those paying attention it seems that this form is only bringing up more questions than they are answering.

Only among people not qualified to verify the authenticity of the document.
Yep, often people that know jack # about a topic will have questions about that topic when it comes up.
Cue the birthers.

Which birther here is a qualified document expert again?
Not looking for someone who wrote a few chapters in a book about Adobe.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by badgerpit
For those paying attention it seems that this form is only bringing up more questions than they are answering.

Only among people not qualified to verify the authenticity of the document.
Yep, often people that know jack # about a topic will have questions about that topic when it comes up.
Cue the birthers.

Which birther here is a qualified document expert again?
Not looking for someone who wrote a few chapters in a book about Adobe.

Knock it off with the 'birther' crap. People place labels on other people to group them up and discard of them. We are not different, we are the same. If you have a problem with any of the words I used then argue based on that. You play into a divisive, never-ending battle with your own people with labels.

If you believe that Mr. Obama is an honest man who is American and has nothing but good intentions for his fellow Americans then you take bigger steps than me. I don't do the republican or democrat thing that most people do for some reason, so instead I try and take people at face value. Right now its not conclusive about his origins, no matter how emphatically you claim it is. I don't say he is foreign or he is American... I say its not understood fully and a deeper investigation is warranted... the resistance to this idea is baffling.

reply to post by badgerpit


My cat is a cat.
I am a female.
I am a driver.
I am a daughter.
I am a non-birther.
What is your problem, exactly?

reply to post by rnaa


What's it to you if there is energy spent researching this subject? If you are content with the lullabies you are told then please go back to sleep. You have opinions (not facts) on the subject, fine, so does everyone else. We are entitled to them. The difference with our approach is that I have no personal agenda here other than seeking more information, and your mind seems made up regardless of whats going on around you.

This reminds me of how I felt about George W. Bush. Ol' Bush thought the same thing Wednesday that he did on Monday, no matter WHAT happened on Tuesday. I would suggest being more flexible with your thoughts. I am not saying you are wrong, but neither am I.

reply to post by badgerpit

What's it to you if there is energy spent researching this subject?

Nothing to me at all. Go right ahead spending energy on it.

Just don't spend my taxpayer dollars on it. And don't call people liars and frauds when it is you and the people you are parroting that are the liars and frauds. And don't pretend to be saving the Constitution while tearing it to pieces.

And when you ask a question, listen to the answer. And when the same question is asked 1000 times and answered 1000 times, don't claim you won and it can't be answered when you ask it the 1001 times and nobody bothers to answer you again.

And if you spend energy discussing it on an uncensored public forum this, don't expect a closed echo chamber that amplifies your delusions for you.

Originally posted by habitforming
reply to post by badgerpit

 

My cat is a cat.
I am a female.
I am a driver.
I am a daughter.
I am a non-birther.
What is your problem, exactly?

I suspect you know exactly what I mean but if there is a need for me to elaborate, I don't mind.

Yes your cat is a cat, yes you are a female, yes right now you are a driver, and yes you are a daughter. None of these are labels that you put on people, however. Your cat is born a cat, you were born a female, a driver is an occupation not a label, and you were born a daughter to someone.

Republican, democrat, liberal, left-wing, right-wing, protestant, catholic, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, terrorist, radical, the lower class, the upper class, the working class, the middle class, the upper middle class, conspiracy theorists, bums, hobos, hippies, yuppies, the social elite, blah blah blah and don't forget the birthers.

Lots and lots of divisive groups to be a part of, yes? how many of these kinds of groups are compatible? Don't you find it interesting that there are all these groups to be a part of that wants absolutely nothing to do with the other groups? I don't buy into this garbage for humanity. You would love to slap the word 'birther' on me because at that exact moment this is done you don't have to spend one more second thinking about what someone like me would have to say. You might respond, you might go tit for tat on 'facts' or opinions about this topic but there could never be any real revelations or true learning because I am one of 'them' (apparently).

I don't have a problem if that's your question to me. I am flexible to your prejudices. Don't take that personal, but if you believe in a special group of people called the 'birthers' then I imagine you also believe in all the other ways to divide a society.

Originally posted by badgerpit

I suspect you know exactly what I mean but if there is a need for me to elaborate, I don't mind.

No, I do not. You ascribe something negative where I do not. Not all labels are derogatory and if you take offense at that particular label then it makes me suspect the conviction of your belief.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

Wait till the Anti-Birther brigade gets a hold of this one...

Whhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
labels whaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Yup, I am an anti-birther.
How come I am not getting all upset about my label? I am actually proud of it.

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by badgerpit

 

What's it to you if there is energy spent researching this subject?

Nothing to me at all. Go right ahead spending energy on it.

Just don't spend my taxpayer dollars on it. And don't call people liars and frauds when it is you and the people you are parroting that are the liars and frauds. And don't pretend to be saving the Constitution while tearing it to pieces.

And when you ask a question, listen to the answer. And when the same question is asked 1000 times and answered 1000 times, don't claim you won and it can't be answered when you ask it the 1001 times and nobody bothers to answer you again.

And if you spend energy discussing it on an uncensored public forum this, don't expect a closed echo chamber that amplifies your delusions for you.

It is clear that we walk different paths. Regarding tax payer money; there are plenty of worse projects that 'your' taxpayer money is spent on then establishing the credentials of our leaders. You really think these guys walk a straight line? I am sure that a bunch of power hungry billionaires that believe themselves to be above the law would never do anything unscrupulous to hold that power. Never.

When I ask a question I do not just blindly accept any answer that comes my way. This is what sheep do. If I listen to an answer from a question that I ask and it does not line up logically with my other thoughts, then yes I will ask again. If the answer does not line up again, I can pretty much guarantee that whoever is giving me the answers is either hiding something or lying. You don't find this to be true?

Regarding your suggestions of me being delusional; if you read your comments you will see that you are not really engaged in conversation. You are on a bull horn. You have zero intent to learn anything (at least from me) and there are things to learn if you had an openness to it. You go ahead and place me in that 'crazy box', because I am sure that is the safe thing for your brain to do. I think our conversation is ended on this.

Joe - Part 2 - debunked claim by claim:

www.thefogbow.com...

as is par for the course, Joe is full of it, and a lot of his claims have been around and debunked for ages...

watch king birther lie through his teeth:

israelinsider.net...

Sheriff Arpaio is a true hero, and I have serious doubts about Obama's qualifications to be president. However as far as proof of birth certificate, if a false certificate was offered, there's nothing that says a real one still exists. The certificate offered was a pretty lame and unprofessional fake, most people on ATS could have done a much better job.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by badgerpit

I suspect you know exactly what I mean but if there is a need for me to elaborate, I don't mind.

No, I do not. You ascribe something negative where I do not. Not all labels are derogatory and if you take offense at that particular label then it makes me suspect the conviction of your belief.

I did not say labels were derogatory, I said they were divisive, which they are. I also do not take offense to your labeling because I do not recognize them, I most definitely am not what you assume I am. Religious folk are professional when it comes to 'conviction of belief', I do not possess the ego to assume I know the answers to everything so you are wrong in your assumption that I operate on a belief system. I maintain that I do not know the answers concerning this case, and the only way to know is to investigate and ask questions. You, however, were told to not ask anymore questions and appear quite content with this. You are a good citizen

The information as to knowing where to look and what to look for is there. There is credible evidence something illegal has occured and should be officaly investigated to either confirm or to disprove criminal charges.

The Office of the President has requirements under the Constitution in order for a person to hold that office.

Any credible report of illegal actions should be investigated....

The Republic comes first..

reply to post by Xcathdra


There's no credible evidence at all.

Show us what you think is credible and I'll show you where it's already been, probably for months, debunked.

Lot's of people keep claiming there's evidence, but none of them can point to any that hasn't been debunked.

reply to post by Dbriefed


It wasn't fake.