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How do we recall specific memories?

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posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:39 PM
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First let me say, I'm a proponent of idealism. So I really don't think materialism can explain things like this. I think theirs a field of mind that's outside of the material body and it interacts with the material body. I actually think the material body is an illusion of mind and information.

This is why when people have Near Death Experiences they see things from outside of themselves. This is because as self consciousness fades, they become more aware.

Take memory recall. How do you recall specific memories? What science will say is, because a certain part of the brain lights up when you recall a memory, then this part of the brain must be responsible for memory recall. This is like saying because a part of my remote lights up when I change the channel, that means my remote must be responsible for changing the channel.

Like now, I'm recalling my first rollercoaster ride, a high school dance and a 2 mile run in the Army.

How does the material brain know which memories I want to recall? Remember, I has to be located in my material brain if you hold a materialist viewpoint. So the material brain has to direct itself to recall memories. How does the material brain know the difference between memories? How does the material brain know the difference between my high school dance and my 2 mile run in the Army?

The Brain is like a computer or TV. It processes information. It has all of these channels or websites but they are meaningless without the human mind.

If you were to do a brain transplant would memories just vanish for the person getting the new brain,

Say you had 2 guys in a Hospice who say they will do a brain swap with each other if there families both receive a million dollars each. You then put them side by side and swap brains. Let's say it works. Will they both have no memory of their loved ones? Will they both have no memories of the life they lead? If materialism is true, they would both have no memory of their loved ones or their lives. This is because it's all located in the material brain that was transplanted. I think they would still have memories of themselves and loved ones because they still have the same FIELD OF MIND.
edit on 17-7-2012 by neoholographic because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


I noticed lately i have been remembering a lot of random dreams, not sure what has been triggering them. I found this study a while back in a peer reviewed journal on random thoughts, and how they have no correlation to what your doing when they pop into your head. It was a pretty interesting read, if i find it i will post a link.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


i think this has to do with your spiritual being... like when you say there is something that is outside of your brain... i believe that is your inner soul spirit.. your actual mind that doesnt technically have anything phsycial to it.
and i think that some how our spirit being inside of our bodies, powers our whole brain and gives us the normal functions that we live with day to day...



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by willrush
reply to post by neoholographic
 


i think this has to do with your spiritual being... like when you say there is something that is outside of your brain... i believe that is your inner soul spirit.. your actual mind that doesnt technically have anything phsycial to it.
and i think that some how our spirit being inside of our bodies, powers our whole brain and gives us the normal functions that we live with day to day...


Not everything is spiritual you know. Usually something you recognize from the past or something you tasted or touched can bring back memories you didn't even know you had. Say you ate a special pie when you were like 5 years old; when you got older (lets say 20) and you didn't have the pie for that long, then when you tasted it again,
it could come back as a memory even from that long amount of time.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:47 PM
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This is something I should know, but have there not been tests confirming that cells unrelated to the brain harbor memory reactions as well?

With the recent discovery of plants having communications skills, it calls into question what it is they are communicating Is it a cellular level communication? Or is it a willful, conscious communication? Ingo Swann had interesting results showing that plants responded to intent and not word/tone. Does this mean they are picking up on a change in electrical field around us or something? Or is is an ability to understand our communication?

There are so many responses that a thing can have that are merely reactions of chemicals, or various wavelengths So deciding if something is sentient or simply just portraying a reaction that is a part of its physical make up can be decidedly hard. But if we can ever discern, knowing that items without brains have consciousness will create quite the conundrum, especially for atheistic type intellects.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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reply to post by Vandettas
 


The senses can recall memories as a reaction. This reaction loops with the field of mind. Say I see a car I used to drive when I lived in Nashville. I then have a memory of driving the car in Nashville. This tells you there has to be a sixth sense or what I call field of mind that allows you to recall specific memories at will and it doesn't take any reaction to a smell or taste.

For instance, I just recalled 3 specific memories. One when I played little league baseball, riding to work on a bus when I worked as a bus boy in high school and playing football on my street when I was younger.

Again, the material brain can't accomplish this. It can't recall specific memories at will and it can't separate playing little league from being a bus boy. This is the materialist conundrum. The material brain has to react to outside stimuli from the 5 senses in order to do anything.

If this is the case, how can the brain recall specific memories at will? What is the outside stimuli that allows you to recall specific memories at will? I say it's the field of mind. Materialism can't accomplish this task.

You can also see this in research in Psi. Check out the video Science and the taboo of Psi.
www.youtube.com...

Here's a good book to check out called Irreducible Mind: Toward a Psychology for the 21st Century
www.amazon.com...



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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How does the brain know whats a real memory and whats not? Im a vivid thinker and i can convince myself somethings real if its not. I dont feel like elaborating more i have things to do. But im curious about that



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
Again, the material brain can't accomplish this. It can't recall specific memories at will and it can't separate playing little league from being a bus boy. This is the materialist conundrum. The material brain has to react to outside stimuli from the 5 senses in order to do anything.

The fact that the stimuli came from outside doesn't mean that's not the brain the one doing the remembering.

Some years ago I used a DOS program called "Total Recall" (like the movie), that explained and had examples of how to train the memory so we could recall things like long lists of unrelated things, in a specific order or not. I don't know if it's true, but the program claimed that it was based on the way the Greek politicians and philosophers memorised their speeches, as they didn't had any good external means of storing that information.

One "game" I like to play everyday (and that helps making our memory more responsive) is to think of a song that I can connect with something they are saying on TV, so if someone is saying "I saw her standing there" I will think of the Beatles song. I don't really know how memory works, but I know that my sister has some memory problems (probably because of several general anaesthetics she had when she was 10 or 11 years old) and since she started playing this "game" she can remember more things, faster.

PS: I think I still have that program, I never delete anything.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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Your memory and your mind are not separate things. Without your memory you have no mind. Without your memory you can not even see or hear things.

When an infant is born, it perceives nothing that makes any sense and can perceive no connections between objects and events in reality. It requires training and exposure to stimulus, then recording of memories between the connections of neurons in the neocortex and hippocampus to start to make sense of the world. When a child learns to walk, it is forming memories about the feedback from its own peripheral nervous system in order to do this.

If you were to do a full swap of your neocortex & hippocampus with another person, you would retain almost all of your memories in the new body. It is established fact that your main mammalian style memories are located in those regions of the brain.

There is no need to propose outside forces. Consciousness is a subfeature of your memory. Your brain does not just process information, it writes it down and stores it in a very specific way that enables you to see connections between events in reality. It allows you to predict future events and make inferences when faced with new events by analogical recall of similar memories. Your brain is auto-associative - recalling memories is how you are able to think!



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Some years ago I used a DOS program called "Total Recall" (like the movie), that explained and had examples of how to train the memory so we could recall things like long lists of unrelated things, in a specific order or not. I don't know if it's true, but the program claimed that it was based on the way the Greek politicians and philosophers memorised their speeches, as they didn't had any good external means of storing that information.


This is a fascinating subject. Previous to the advent of mass publishing, the use of mnemotechnics (The Art of Memory) was a vital part of intellectual discourse. This fact has been almost entirely forgotten by our culture, but it was surely highly important to our social development.

en.wikipedia.org...

There is a beautiful book by Frances Yates called 'The Art of Memory' written in the 60s, this was the first proper modern academic exploration of the subject and is well worth reading:

books.google.co.uk...
www.scribd.com...

I did some practice with this technique using the only decent modern book I could find which dealt with the technical aspects of using the art and was very impressed with the results. The book is called Remembering the Parables: Using the Art of Memory to remember Jesus' parables. I'm not a Christian, but I found this book fascinating anyway. Within only a few hours I was able to remember 30 parables in order, including their context and their exact order in a sequence. I can still recall it over a year later with no practice.

www.amazon.com...

Some other things I tried after using this were remembering how to easily say the alphabet backwards, and to instantly give the number of each letter or sequence of letters, backwards or forwards. I also memorised about 60 words and descriptions from a very technical computer document in a way that I would never have thought possible. I think you have to practice to retain these things properly, but it is surprisingly easy.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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ArMap and yampa,

Your posts have nothing to do with anything that I have said. I never said anything about the brain not being able to do exercises to help better your memory. I never said memory wasn't stored in the brain. There was a recent study that confirmed my point.


The means by which traces of memory are stored, engrams, have only been hypothetical, which means we did not have an idea of the actual, concrete means by which memories are stored in the brain. However, in a new study, MIT researchers used optogenics — a combination of optical and genetic methods to control events in cells of living tissue, essentially the manipulation of cells so they’re sensitive and responsive to light — to show that memories are actually kept inside brain cells.

Susumu Tonegawa, Picower Professor of Biology and Neuroscience at MIT, explains that a memory can be triggered by physical stimulation, and in turn activation, of a specific subpopulation of brain cells.

Co-author of the study, Xu Liu, says the results show that memories really do reside in specific brain cells:

“Our results show that memories really do reside in very specific brain cells, and simply by reactivating these cells by physical means, such as light, an entire memory can be recalled.”


www.geekosystem.com...

Again, memory can recalled based on outside stimuli. For instance, I went to my moms and she was cooking spaghetti and a memory flashed in my mind of when I was little, I went swimming and afterwords I ate a whole pot of spaghetti and got sick and my mom said my eyes were bigger then my stomach.

So memories are stored in the brain and I say they're also contained in what I call the field of mind. This field is physical and it allows humans to recall memory at will. You have many field theories out their like Johnjoe McFadden's CEMI theory of the brain or Rupert Sheldrake and morphic fields. My point is there's a field of mind outside of the body that interacts with the body and it survives death.

How does the brain recall specific memories at will? What physical mechanism allows the brain to recall specific memories at will? How could this even be accomplished by a material brain? How does the brain know the difference between two different memories? What part of the brain says I want to recall the memory from little league? Or I want to recall the memory in the Army?

Again, this test proves my point. There has to be outside stimuli that recalls memories. The five senses respond to this stimuli. There's no outside stimuli that allow humans to recall specific memories at will except a field of mind that interacts with the body.

The brain absorbs information coming from the five senses like a sponge. The five sense can't account for the ability of humans to recall specific memories at will. In order for the brain to do this it has to be activated by outside stimuli.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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If memories are stored in the brain, then they are recalled by the brain? What possible reason do you have for suggesting an outside influence other than the fact you say so? All memories, all sensation, all processing of information - everything you can call thought, recollection of specific memories or not all take place in the brain.

You've posted a link to show that external stimulation of brain cells can cause recall of memories. This is true and has been known for a long time. I think you are aiming for some kind of semantic definition of 'at will' here? You are both saying that memories are stored in the brain and recalled using the brain, that some sort of field theory (whatever that means) takes place in the brain. Then you contradict yourself by saying that this can't have a physical mechanism and must take place outside of the brain.

You have no evidence at all of memories being interfaced outside the brain. The link you posted shows that you can stimulate neurons using external forces, it doesn't say anything about the formation of memories externally.
edit on 18-7-2012 by yampa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by yampa
 


This whole post is a big dodge.

First, if you don't know about field theories of the brain, I suggest you do some research.

Secondly, when you say the brain recalls memories, how does it accomplish this? Which part of the brain allows us to recall specific memories at will? How does it know the difference from memories from the 1st grade or memories from High School?

How is this even possible for the material brain?

The test showed that for the memory to be recalled, it had to be stimulated. What stimulates the brain to allow us to recall specific memories at will?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
Secondly, when you say the brain recalls memories, how does it accomplish this? Which part of the brain allows us to recall specific memories at will? How does it know the difference from memories from the 1st grade or memories from High School?

How does a computer know what areas of the disk to access to get the file you asked for?

References.

You just need something that connects some input from the five senses to the memory stored in the brain, that's why you remembered that scene from your youth, because it had some things that were interpreted as similar to the present day situation you were living.

I don't see the need for anything else besides the brain and the five senses.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by yampa
 


This whole post is a big dodge.

First, if you don't know about field theories of the brain, I suggest you do some research.

Secondly, when you say the brain recalls memories, how does it accomplish this? Which part of the brain allows us to recall specific memories at will? How does it know the difference from memories from the 1st grade or memories from High School?

How is this even possible for the material brain?

The test showed that for the memory to be recalled, it had to be stimulated. What stimulates the brain to allow us to recall specific memories at will?


The test shows that you can stimulate neurons with photons, and that when neurons are stimulated, this is the same as recalling a memory. That is not a new discovery. We have been putting probes into people's brains to stimulate memories and perceptions for more than 50 years. What normally stimulates neurons is other neurons. Thought is the process of activating chains of neurons. The whole neocortex is a massive network of neurons connecting to other neurons, almost all with feedback connections.

I'd say your answers were a dodge, because instead of recognising that all we have is neurons, you've invented something you have no evidence of. As for field theories, I'm really not going to bother studying anything which uses a definition as opaque as 'field' when it's been known for 100 years + that the engine of the nervous system is neurons. I have studied neuroscience for years in an an amateur capacity, including theories of cortical learning, neural correlates of consciousness, developmental neuroscience and cognitive neuroscience. If you want to explain to me why a field theory adds something to this, please go ahead.

The algorithms and canonical learning structures of the human neocortex are not yet known. It is an open theoretical field and an active area of research. None of that research is taking place outside the context of the nervous system, because that type of theory is non-scientific. You are incredulous that the brain has an internal mechanism for recalling previously stored memories, so you have picked something unknowable instead of learning the tangible unknowns.

The fact is that the neocortex does have a mechanism for recalling specific memories, and this mechanism is both automatic and within our conscious control.

There are even more complex questions than the one you have chosen about specific memories, like for instance the 'cocktail party' problem. How is it that humans are able to attend to only one speaker in a room full of dozens of people talking at the same volume? No computer algorithm we have invented can do that? That's an unknown, but that doesn't mean we resort to mysticism and start looking for etheric non-physical solutions, because that makes us bad scientists.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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I'm reading Rupert Sheldrake's wikipedia page and I'm not even going to consider those types of theories as proper engineering solutions to how the nervous system and human mind works. I will bet you those types of theories are never going to answer your questions.



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by yampa
 


Again, a post that says nothing.

First, you don't want to look at field theories of consciouness that have been published in Journals, because of what those in statistics and predictive analysis call confirmation bias. Most people only want to read things that confirm their pre-existing beliefs.

You said:


The algorithms and canonical learning structures of the human neocortex are not yet known. It is an open theoretical field and an active area of research. None of that research is taking place outside the context of the nervous system, because that type of theory is non-scientific. You are incredulous that the brain has an internal mechanism for recalling previously stored memories, so you have picked something unknowable instead of learning the tangible unknowns.

The fact is that the neocortex does have a mechanism for recalling specific memories, and this mechanism is both automatic and within our conscious control.


This is just ridiculous nonsense. It's a way of saying, I have no clue but you can't have a clue unless it conforms to my beliefs.

AgaIn, what is this internal mechanism in the brain that recalls specific memories at will? Where is it located? How does it work? How does this internal mechanism know the difference between a memory from College or a Memory from a vacation?

You went even further. You said this mechanism is in our conscious control. Where is the conscious control center in the brain that allows us to control this other recall mechanism that you speak of that allows us to recall specific memories at will? How do these mechanisms know the difference between various memories? For Instance, I want to recall a memory in the Army, how does the conscious control center in the brain signal this mechanism and then access the specific memory? Give me the step by step process along with the peer reviewed scientific studies behind it.

This is not just speaking about the unknown. This is saying how is any of this possible with the material brain?

How does the brain know I want a memory from the Army? How does it know which specific memory from the Army? How does it recall these memories at will? I just recalled 5 different memories at will. How does the material brain accomplish this without outside input?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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How does looking outside the brain answer any of your questions? What is it you know about outside that neuroscientists do not?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by neoholographic
How does the brain know I want a memory from the Army?

That question made me think of something else: how do you know that you want a memory from the Army? How do you know that you were once in the Army? How do you know what's the Army?



posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by neoholographic
How does the brain know I want a memory from the Army?

That question made me think of something else: how do you know that you want a memory from the Army? How do you know that you were once in the Army? How do you know what's the Army?


Well of course. The answer is outside. That's the theory. Everything we don't know yet is answered by typing the word 'outside'.



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