The true story behind the bible

reply to post by ScatterBrain


What you're not understanding is that there is no invisible god that watches over us. The real 'god' cares not what happens to us or what we do, it does not have a plan for anyone. If anything 'god' is indifferent. Man creates his own destiny by the actions that he takes, some choose to be good people, others choose to be bad because they want more money and in order to get that money they will do anything, including starting wars based on complete lies.

People who are influenced by other men are unknowingly influenced, meaning they believe what they are doing is their own choice when really they were influenced to make that choice.

reply to post by ScatterBrain


Don't take this as me trying to influence you into believing a certain way, believe what you want, it is your choice what you believe. You are asking questions and I am just giving you my honest opinion.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Well it seems a bit pointless that he sent his only begotten son to Earth to spread his message only for him to suppress his message by intentionally having man edit out his gospels.

Well, if that is what He actually did I would agree with you. What if....God was so much smarter than we could even imagine, that He created a book that only could be understood by those who in their heart chosen to serve Him? Is it so hard to believe a God who is capable of creating such a perfect universe that He is capable to create a message that only those with a heart that chooses to serve Him could understand? Man cannot stop God from anything... neither can Lucifer.
Maybe it will be easier if I explained what I understand from the bible in this respect, and see if it makes sense to you ok.
Proverbs 16:4
The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
Proverbs 16:3-5 (in Context)
(I understand that God uses the wicked to do His will... example: God uses the wicked to perform his vengeance, as the righteous know God reserves the task of vengeance to Himself and it is not right to take it upon ourselves to seek vengeance, we trust God and obey that he has the issue under His control).

Proverbs 17:23 A wicked man taketh a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.
(The Holy Spirit within us is a gift, we know what we ought not do. The wicked perverts Truth... example: We know it is wrong to lie, but some people claim that it is ok to lie if is for a good reason. This is pride... for someone to think it is ok to lie when God put in us that it is not ok, it is like saying they think they are smarter than God....the act of telling a lie is opposed to the truth....no matter how one tries to justify it, it is a deception and wrong).

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
(I understand this verse as saying, show you want God's approval, there is no shame in knowing the truth)
Acts 17:11 11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so
(I understand this verse to say it is easier to understand when you are sincerely (from your heart) desire understanding, many don't like what they read and quit before ever really learning....example may be sports; you try a sport and because it is hard and you are not good at it, you quit before giving it a chance to make you good at it).

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(I understand this verse confirms that All scripture is given by the divine guidance of God, and with the right heart you will see the value it has in it in regards to life and more).

We are to do what we are charged to do, nothing more, nothing less:
Numbers 22:18
And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.

The word of the Lord is like food... we only are given what we able able to digest, and as we are converted by this food, we are given more.... We really are what we eat

To Digest is To convert (food) into simpler chemical compounds that can be absorbed and assimilated by the body, as by chemical and muscular action in the alimentary canal. 2. To think over so as to understand; absorb or assimilate.

I do not expect anyone to understand the bible when they have other, stronger desires that they hold as more important. Just think how many people never picked up a bible just because it's not cool... or don't want to read something that will damage a convenient opinion they have of themselves?

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

I understand we all have a choice whom to serve, the option is available to all.

There is a purpose for reading the bible: Proverbs 1
1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
4 To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.

reply to post by ScatterBrain

What if....God was so much smarter than we could even imagine, that He created a book that only could be understood by those who in their heart chosen to serve Him?

If he is so much smarter, then how the HELL do you know ANYTHING about him??

You are arrogant to the point of talking about things you have no clue about. And one day, you're going to die, and realize "Holy crud, he was right." And you'll be happier for it, because the truth is an amazing thing that you never thought of before because you didn't have the KNOWLEDGE.

Make sense? No? I'm not surprised. You guys always did have a hard time thinking.

Man cannot stop God from anything... neither can Lucifer.

Lucifer has nothing to do with this. There is no such thing as the devil. It's amazing how we're past the age of superstition and myth, yet you swallow it like wine. Your religion is useless, dead in the water. It has no practicality. And honestly, I think that's why you like it. All the benefits, none of the work.

Lazy Homo Sapiens. Work for your salvation. Save the world, and study some science along the way. You can't find the answers without science. And I very dearly hope you're interested in finding answers...otherwise, you've already lost.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Hi AfterInfinity,

If he is so much smarter, then how the HELL do you know ANYTHING about him??

I had and hold a strong desire to know Him and because of this desire, I put knowledge of Him and learning His ways above all else.

You are arrogant to the point of talking about things you have no clue about. And one day, you're going to die, and realize "Holy crud, he was right." And you'll be happier for it, because the truth is an amazing thing that you never thought of before because you didn't have the KNOWLEDGE.

I have been doing two things here, trying to clarify what the OP understands so I understand clearly what he is saying and sharing with the OP just a little of the understanding I personally get from the bible. I am not sure how it comes off as arrogant. I am a bit surprised that you are able to be so bold to conclude that I have no clue about the things I speak of. Are you accusing me of being ignorant ? Please have the decency to include a quote in context that I have made that has given you the authority to call me clueless and arrogant. Thank you.

Make sense? No? I'm not surprised. You guys always did have a hard time thinking.

Actually sweetheart, If you would have included a copy of the text that support your conclusions, it would be easier to understand. This is what grown up people do in college...they include evidence to support claims they make.

Lucifer has nothing to do with this. There is no such thing as the devil. It's amazing how we're past the age of superstition and myth, yet you swallow it like wine. Your religion is useless, dead in the water. It has no practicality. And honestly, I think that's why you like it. All the benefits, none of the work.

Ah, now I understand, you reject God. Ok, now you make more sense. The definition of religion is a set of beliefs...I wonder though, how is it that people like you can reject every person that is tagged as religious and then complain about the condition of the world? My religion sir, is my own... it is a set of beliefs that I have concluded to be true until I learn otherwise. You seem to claim some kind of superiority over me, so share with me why you claim this position of superiority... what makes you more knowledgeable than me?

Lazy Homo Sapiens. Work for your salvation. Save the world, and study some science along the way. You can't find the answers without science. And I very dearly hope you're interested in finding answers...otherwise, you've already lost. edit on 21-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Hmmm.. I don't work for salvation, that's not possible...How do you come to the conclusion I am lazy? Tell me does stuff just come out of your mouth randomly or do you think first? If you have indeed thought first, why don't you include that in your comment so you don't give the impression that you just babble without any coherent thought. Oh and darling, the bible supports all the technology of today and is even ahead of Man's advancements in the area, and I find no contradictions between Science and the bible. I do however see that some people do not understand the concept of a Scientific theory and misrepresent it as law out of carelessness.... and shoot off from the mouth things in which they don't understand. Oh, about saving the world... that's funny, the world doesn't need saving, people do and by their own free will too.
I look forward to your next rude reply, perhaps you can hop off your own high horse and answer the questions I posed to you in this post.

reply to post by ScatterBrain

I had and hold a strong desire to know Him and because of this desire, I put knowledge of Him and learning His ways above all else.

Is he infinite?

I have been doing two things here, trying to clarify what the OP understands so I understand clearly what he is saying and sharing with the OP just a little of the understanding I personally get from the bible. I am not sure how it comes off as arrogant.

Answer the above question and I'll tell you.

Actually sweetheart, If you would have included a copy of the text that support your conclusions, it would be easier to understand. This is what grown up people do in college...they include evidence to support claims they make.

Don't belittle me. I don't claim to understand Source, at least not to the degree that I make promises of salvation to anyone I talk to about Source.

Ah, now I understand, you reject God. Ok, now you make more sense. The definition of religion is a set of beliefs...I wonder though, how is it that people like you can reject every person that is tagged as religious and then complain about the condition of the world?

That's easy. Christians think they don't have to do anything to save the world. They're wrong.

My religion sir, is my own... it is a set of beliefs that I have concluded to be true until I learn otherwise.

"Concluded" is a highly suspect word. It suggests you've compiled evidence to support your beliefs. What evidence have you found?

You seem to claim some kind of superiority over me, so share with me why you claim this position of superiority... what makes you more knowledgeable than me?

Science. Recent science, corroborated by ancient texts. Texts that are a lot more logical than a God who judges by moral standard - which, by the way, we invented. We humans invented morals, and we humans are the first ones to come up with gods.

Hmmm.. I don't work for salvation, that's not possible...

How is it not possible? I'm trying to understand, and help you to understand.

Oh and darling, the bible supports all the technology of today and is even ahead of Man's advancements in the area, and I find no contradictions between Science and the bible.

From where I'm sitting, I see the Bible (as preached about today) as talking about a man who's been dead for centuries floating out of the sky and making everything okay in less than 24 hours, before casting half the world into hell and glorifying the other half for doing nothing but debasing themselves and not aiming for the stars.

Because yes, space travel is a sin according to the Bible. Along with a plethora of other things. It was recently refreshed in my memory as pair of zealots held a sign up at a fair listing the people going to hell. It was quite infuriating.

I look forward to your response.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

There can be nothing 'super'natural within this natural universe.

Supernatural means some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature. Are we sure that man indeed understands everything yet? Even science admits they do not have all the answers to their questions, at least not yet. If you recall in some history lessons, we had segments of population believing some things we laugh at today but they believed those things only because they did not have the information yet to prove different. I personally think science has enhanced my understanding of the bible because where it would speak of a certain operation that must come to pass, I didn't understand how it was possible. Now, I can read those operations and understand clearly how it is possible. Science actually gives more credibility to the bible. So now that verse that I could not understand for decades was given meaning and value the moment our technology caught up with it. Pretty cool isn't it?

reply to post by ScatterBrain

Supernatural means some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature. Are we sure that man indeed understands everything yet?

Then why do you follow something that presumes to understand "God"? If we don't know everything about the universe, then we know next to nothing about "God".

This is what I'm trying to say to you.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

What you're not understanding is that there is no invisible god that watches over us. The real 'god' cares not what happens to us or what we do, it does not have a plan for anyone. If anything 'god' is indifferent. Man creates his own destiny by the actions that he takes, some choose to be good people, others choose to be bad because they want more money and in order to get that money they will do anything, including starting wars based on complete lies. People who are influenced by other men are unknowingly influenced, meaning they believe what they are doing is their own choice when really they were influenced to make that choice.

Well I agree with you that there is no Guy in the sky watching over us I disagree that God is indifferent, I would say his opposition is indifferent or might I be so bold as to say a friction? I know people think God is indifferent because a child is murdered and stuff like that. I don't understand that to be the truth. I agree man makes most of his own decisions... I was confused because in another post you said some are influenced to be greedy but was through no fault of their own. Aren't decisions like that a choice (to be greedy)?

I also understand this last part you wrote...it's like people will get untruthful information and based on that information do something that hurts themselves or others.


Do you agree that there are good influences and bad influences. If so, do you believe that it there is anything other than man who is capable of influencing people? Like make everyone in a town turn absolutely bonkers for a day....(mass hysteria).

reply to post by ScatterBrain


Why do you believe in Satan?

And what do you think God is?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Don't take this as me trying to influence you into believing a certain way, believe what you want, it is your choice what you believe. You are asking questions and I am just giving you my honest opinion.

Hi no, I think we are having a good discussion because we are not trying to influence each other with manipulation but are just explaining what (and hopefully how we came to our conclusions) we understand. I agree that we were intended to have free will so we can grow and learn at our own pace..so we can reject or accept whatever precepts we choose......so we can make mistakes and God is so perfect that each lesson is designed specifically for the individuals own heart (which man cannot know what is in another's heart). Does that make sense to you?

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Is he infinite?

To my understanding, it is a umbrella term used to cover all of God's superlative attributes.

Don't belittle me. I don't claim to understand Source, at least not to the degree that I make promises of salvation to anyone I talk to about Source.

Does it bother you when someone belittles you? I figured you wouldn't see anything wrong with it since you made it a point to do it to me. *shrugs

I promised to save someone? I am known not to make promises to anyone because I never know if I am able to keep them for sure.... are you sure your responding to the right person...please quote evidence to prove your accusation so you don't come off as a liar.

That's easy. Christians think they don't have to do anything to save the world. They're wrong.

I would ask you to enlighten me as to what is expected of me but, that is not your place now is it?

"Concluded" is a highly suspect word. It suggests you've compiled evidence to support your beliefs. What evidence have you found?

Remember, you asked me, don't even cry and say I am forcing my belief down your throat k. That isn't even possible ya know

Go back to my post on page 10 (near the bottom of the page)... there I explain my reasoning for picking up the bible and why it has never steered me wrong. When I say "until I learn otherwise" does not mean that anything will change my mind about God...just means that my understanding will be increased or understanding may be clearer upon learning new information... and still as I said.... I get the corrections at the right time from in the bible ...or even sometimes in a dream. (before you go off all donkey about dreams, make sure your have knowledge of how the brain functions and is influenced/manipulated.. because I am aware of this too).

Science. Recent science, corroborated by ancient texts. Texts that are a lot more logical than a God who judges by moral standard - which, by the way, we invented. We humans invented morals, and we humans are the first ones to come up with gods.

No duh ..... please post where I said that.... standards is defined as norms, something considered by an authority or by general consent as a basis of comparison; an approved model. Are you telling me there are no absolutes in this world? I love science, I come from a family of biologists (Mother's side). I have done some study in some areas of science in college...I and aware of the latest claims and some of the experiments in progress... but, I'm not in the field, are you? I am no expert on the bible, I just stayed at a holiday inn express..... sorry couldn't resist I have studied my bible in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew... as well as a few other religions, the origins of religion and some history of world leaders and events. I am sort of hooked on reading, been doing it like a job for most of my life...but it don't feel like a job at all, it's an adventure

From where I'm sitting, I see the Bible (as preached about today) as talking about a man who's been dead for centuries floating out of the sky and making everything okay in less than 24 hours, before casting half the world into hell and glorifying the other half for doing nothing but debasing themselves and not aiming for the stars.

Yeah well... I don't know what to say to you, except it's your own fault for listening to a preacher instead of getting off your soapbox and reading the bible yourself. God makes sure everyone has the opportunity to find truth...he warns about putting your trust in some shmo. Bibles are all over the place, put down the remote control and read a book...really man... how hypocritical can one be to call others lazy when you are too lazy to read what the bible says itself rather than trusting some guy wearing make-up and crying for donations on TV?
Poem for you :
Read a book,
Read a book,
Read a muthr ***** Book
R-E-A-D O-K
Not the sports page,
Not a magazine,
Read a book muthr****
(by,Darel Hancock)
Sorry, I had a moment of silliness, I must be getting bored.

Because yes, space travel is a sin according to the Bible. Along with a plethora of other things. It was recently refreshed in my memory as pair of zealots held a sign up at a fair listing the people going to hell. It was quite infuriating.

I said on page 10 post that I didn't understand everything I read in the bible but I never heard of that sin before...and I have heard a lot of ways to sin from others playing god.... I generally don't concern myself with that kind of fear... According to my understanding, I should not fear evil... so I do my best not too. It might be a good idea to include your proof (at least list the location in the bible) so I can see that your claim is actually in there.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Then why do you follow something that presumes to understand "God"? If we don't know everything about the universe, then we know next to nothing about "God". This is what I'm trying to say to you.

I was drawn to this thread, I got this impression that a really awesome person wrote it, so the person interested me because of his well thought out conclusion. He had to have put some serious effort to write such a thought provoking piece. I desired to have conversation with the person in reference to his ideas and conclusions.

I hear what you are saying to me, and thank you for your opinion but, you did not draw me to this thread...sorry if I don't find your comments as interesting or thought provoking. Why don't you go and start your own thread, and bash everyone who believes differently than you over there instead of here. Thank you

reply to post by ScatterBrain



So basically you agree with my theory all the way except the part about there being no judgmental/self-aware/sentient god with intent? I don't use judgemental in a negative way, your god does judge so I'm just stating the obvious.

No, science hasen't proven everything yet, but it's not slowing down any time soon either. We are discovering something new about the universe everyday, so who is to say that sometime in the future we won't know everything?

There is no evidence scientifically available that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that 'god' is a judgmental, self-aware, sentient being with intent.

If some time in the future that type of a god is somehow proved to exist, then I would be the first to admit it, trust me, but until that point I will only go off of what I see, and that is that there is no evidence to prove your god exists.

Originally posted by ScatterBrain
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

What you're not understanding is that there is no invisible god that watches over us. The real 'god' cares not what happens to us or what we do, it does not have a plan for anyone. If anything 'god' is indifferent. Man creates his own destiny by the actions that he takes, some choose to be good people, othewrs choose to be bad because they want more money and in order to get that money they will do anything, including starting wars based on complete lies. People who are influenced by other men are unknowingly influenced, meaning they believe what they are doing is their own choice when really they were influenced to make that choice.

Well I agree with you that there is no Guy in the sky watching over us

I disagree that God is indifferent, I would say his opposition is indifferent or might I be so bold as to say a friction? I know people think God is indifferent because a child is murdered and stuff like that. I don't understand that to be the truth. I agree man makes most of his own decisions... I was confused because in another post you said some are influenced to be greedy but was through no fault of their own. Aren't decisions like that a choice (to be greedy)?

I also understand this last part you wrote...it's like people will get untruthful information and based on that information do something that hurts themselves or others.


Do you agree that there are good influences and bad influences. If so, do you believe that it there is anything other than man who is capable of influencing people? Like make everyone in a town turn absolutely bonkers for a day....(mass hysteria).

Your reference to friction is a perfect example of how the universe (or god) works on duality. Everything has an opposite e.g. light/dark, man/woman, good/evil, etc., etc., etc. ....... The good and the evil both come from (to quote AfterInfinity) the 'source' that makes up the universe, and the fact that both good and evil come from this 'source' means that said source is indifferent and non-judgmental without intent.

The universe has no beginning nor end, just as your god has no beginning nor end, my universe and your god are the same thing except for the reasons I stated in my previous post.

The thing about mass hysteria is possible, but it can be explained by something the moon or sun does. Mass hysteria can be compared to massive droughts or the tides, except hysteria is of the mind and the tides and droughts are of the physical world.

The moon and sun mess with our minds just like the new Iphone does for some. It's the same concept.

ETA: I take back the part about the universe not being self-aware, if we are the universe experiencing itself then that means the universe is self-aware because we are.

reply to post by ScatterBrain


I think what he said about space travel being a sin is a reference to the Tower of Babel. God destroyed the tower because man 'in their arrogance' tried to reach reach heaven. We have a space program today and hundreds of people have been into space, has god suddenly changed his mind about reaching heaven?

That is only one man made contradiction among many in the bible. Back then they had never been into space and as far as they knew, we would never reach space. With time, we have proved that wrong, and with time my theory has come along because we today can have almost any piece of information we could imagine in half a second by just googling it. This access to information is what, in my opinion, is waking up so many people to the lies that are within religion and politics and anything else.

reply to post by ScatterBrain


Or maybe the Tower of Babel represents what is happening today?

The ones who have control over the world now are becoming more and more 'arrogant' in their climb to the top of this metaphorical 'tower' of control and power. They are becoming so arrogant to the point of what they are doing is blatantly obvious.

Maybe 'god' becoming angry is a metaphor for the people rising up against this corruption and the people metaphorically tearing their tower down. Empires have risen and fallen throughout history, including pre-history and even pr-pre-history.

It's a theory that I will devote more time to in the future for sure.


ETA: I did a little research on the tower of babel and have come to the conclusion that it is a metaphor fir the rise and fall of Babylon. Babel/Babylon They sound similar so I believe this is most likely the case.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So basically you agree with my theory all the way except the part about there being no judgmental/self-aware/sentient god with intent? I don't use judgemental in a negative way, your god does judge so I'm just stating the obvious. No, science hasen't proven everything yet, but it's not slowing down any time soon either. We are discovering something new about the universe everyday, so who is to say that sometime in the future we won't know everything? There is no evidence scientifically available that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that 'god' is a judgmental, self-aware, sentient being with intent.

Hi 3NL1GHT3N3D1,

No. I do not agree with much that you are saying. I do see some important aspects in what you wrote that do coincide with some things going on within our planet/universe, but not for the reasons you have concluded.

That's why I thought it would be interesting if we both use the same dictionary (sort of speak) so we can reason together on the issue rather than just trying to prove someone is right or someone is wrong so that we may search for answers together and see where we end up in the end.

I figured we could both compare how we come to our conclusions and by cross checking information with other credible sources and see what stands after. See, no one has been able to convince me their is no God (God=superior entity)...Science doesn't refute it.

I also disagree that God has no intent. I understand there is a very intentional purpose for the way the world is set up. I could discuss this intention and purpose but, this is your thread and well...you don't believe that there is one, so this could be another area we can discuss if you like, ya know look at the pros and cons as to what would seem most logical.
As far as science, it does not refute the existence of God. As far as judgement, I see God as judgement in Himself, He created everything. Isn't it logical to assume he put some thought into it and decided the order of things? After all we do have an order to things.

As far as using judgement in a negative way, I know humans to do that, and that is how it is interpreted. When God hates I see that as is opposed/opposite/friction/like against the nature of purpose, not in the way that people hate. But, we would disagree there too because you seem to think there is no intent for our existence. When we create something it is normally for some purpose yes? Why would we think our existence was created without a purpose?

I have been enjoying our conversations and look forward to continuing it. I will be in and out but, as I get time I will try to catch up with your posts. Hope your day rocks!!

reply to post by ScatterBrain


I think the main point where we differ is that the universe was 'created', I do not believe the universe was created, I just think it has always been. The fact that math is consisted of an infinite amount of numbers goes to show that there is room for infinite time.

The universe isn't infinitely big (though it may as well be with how huge it is) but it is infinitely old, meaning there is no room for 'creation' because creation implies a beginning which an infinitely old universe does not have. Does that make sense?

You may say that the big bang or something similar was the beginning but I would have to disagree with that as well because everything works in cycles and I do not believe that our big bang was the first, only one such big bang in an infinitely long line of big bangs that has been cycling back and forth forever, with no beginning nor end.

For whatever reason, you believe that the universe has some kind of plan for us, why do you believe that? Honest question.