It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The true story behind the bible

page: 18
21
<< 15  16  17    19  20  21 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:39 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


I agree with that assessment, but I also believe that greed and pride feed off of each other. The more greed you have the more pride that comes with it and vice versa.

You can have pride without greed though. When you have pride without greed that is what I like to call enlightenment. You take pride in yourself and others yet do not belittle and manipulate others in order to benefit off of it.




posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:16 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



Yes, I agree with the definitions you provided.


Ok, so we agree Lucifer is a anti-Christ. Which represents everything in opposition to Christ.

If we took a piece of paper and drew a line down the middle...we would put "Lucifer the Anti-Christ" on one side and "Christ" on the other. Under the side of Lucifer we would write: greedy, and under the side of Christ we would write: generous. For now we are able to begin to see that we are speaking of two distinct differences between Lucifer the anti-Christ and Christ. We will put that paper aside and add information to each side of the paper where it belongs as we continue our discussion of Lucifer.



I believe most humans on Earth are greedy in some way because we all desire more money, bigger paychecks, we are all focused on our financial situation e.g. house payments, car payments, cell phone payments, etc.

I agree that it would appear that some humans have some of the same traits as Lucifer. I would also say that some humans have the traits of Christ too.


It is no fault of our own though because that is the way the world is set up, and the way TV and movies portray beauty and money only adds to this desire for money because we think 'Man, wouldn't it be nice to look like him/her and have all the stuff he/she has?'

Are you saying that Lucifer is greedy and it is not his fault? Or are you saying that humans are influenced by Lucifer so they have desires that they cannot resist being greedy? Please briefly explain Lucifer's role and man's role, Thank you.


Don't get me wrong, not everyone is like this, I myself am part of this minority because I see past the illusion and desire money nor fame. Jesus was part of this group as wellbecause he gave to the needy and the poor and taught not to desire material things but to respect one another and do good for one another.

Yes, I understand you are telling me not everyone is greedy. So if I understand you correctly, some people are greedy like Lucifer and some people are generous Like Christ Jesus...is that correct?

If you agree, Please add the Name "Jesus" next to the name Christ on the piece of paper. So now our piece of paper has "Lucifer the Anti-Christ" on one side and "Christ Jesus" on the other.... sound right?



The antichrist could be one of many things, including the so called Lucifer, but my money is on organized religion, which can also be considered Lucifer because organized religion is the most greedy institution on Earth, in my opinion.

I agree, I understand that there are many anti-Christs. So far though we have agreed that Lucifer is a anti-Christ. I also recall you saying that Lucifer is the ruler of darkness correct?

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

So It would be ok to say we agree that Lucifer is a spirit?

If we have been agreeing so far.. we have a piece of paper with both Lucifer on one side and Jesus on the other. One being Anti-Christ and the other Christ. Two who oppose each other....correct? Under Lucifer we have greedy and ruler and under Jesus we have generous and ruler, sound right so far?

Before we move to other areas of discussion, can we discuss what traits besides greed Lucifer has, or do you believe only greed is Lucifer's issue? Thank you.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:30 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


I believe that the ones in power, or the 'Lucifers' influence us and manipulate us in order to keep us dependent on money and material things so that they can keep the illusion going.

Other traits I would apply to him are corrupt, self-indulgent, and manipulative but I think I've already implied those earlier in the thread.

I didn't say he was the ruler of 'darkness' per se but yes, in a sense he is.

Also, are you building up to a refutation or are you genuinely intrigued and just trying to build on my theory?
edit on 20-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:31 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



You can have pride without greed though. When you have pride without greed that is what I like to call enlightenment. You take pride in yourself and others yet do not belittle and manipulate others in order to benefit off of it.

I agree pride and greed are usually intertwined. I am sorry I do not understand the rest of this statement. Maybe we have a different understanding of the definition of enlightenment? I understand enlightenment as meaning the attainment of spiritual knowledge or insight. What do you understand the definition for enlightenment means? I would like to finish our discussion about Lucifer before going on to discuss if indeed there is healthy pride and what that might be if that is cool with you. Thanks



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:38 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


I'm saying that pride does not always lead to greed, but most of the time it does.

I shouldn't have used the word 'enlightenment' in that context. I apologize for the confusion, I think the word I was looking for was selflessness.

In order to have pride in ones self and not become greedy in the process, you must first reach enlightenment. With enlightenment comes selflessness.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 08:59 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



I believe that the ones in power, or the 'Lucifers' influence us and manipulate us in order to keep us dependent on money and material things so that they can keep the illusion going. Other traits I would apply to him are corrupt, self-indulgent, and manipulative but I think I've already implied those earlier in the thread. I didn't say he was the ruler of 'darkness' per se but yes, in a sense he is.


Ok, I think I understand you...and I agree about those other traits about Lucifer. Let me see if I can explain it in my own way and tell me if we agree ok.

We have God who Created the Heavens and the Earth, He is the creator of all living things, including Lucifer a great but fallen angel with traits that oppose Christ so we tag him a anti-Christ. Christ Jesus so far we have only acknowledged that he has the opposite traits as Lucifer so far. Which is cool because we have been sticking to the topic of Lucifer first. Lucifer was tossed out of heaven because let's just say...his poor behavior and attitude...is that fair? He is here on earth in spirit form influencing people. Now, even though we haven't spoken much about Jesus, we both agree that there are also some people who are influenced by the traits people understood Jesus has. If this we can agree on.......

Then we have two influences, both of which oppose each other and seek humans to follow them?

How does this sound so far? Like two kingdoms parallel of each other?

edit on 20-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 09:16 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




I'm saying that pride does not always lead to greed, but most of the time it does. I shouldn't have used the word 'enlightenment' in that context. I apologize for the confusion, I think the word I was looking for was selflessness. In order to have pride in ones self and not become greedy in the process, you must first reach enlightenment. With enlightenment comes selflessness.


No worries, I appreciate you taking the time we need to understand each other properly, Thank you for your patience. Maybe we can come back and discuss pride after we conclude our Lucifer discussion, cool?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 09:17 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


The thing I do not agree with is that some unknown forces are intentionally pushing and pulling us.

I believe the Christ and Lucifer metaphors are of natural human traits, some become obsessed with material things while others ar obsessed with spiritual fulfillment and knowledge. No invisible spirits whatsoever, unless you mean human emotions and souls.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:13 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



Also, are you building up to a refutation or are you genuinely intrigued and just trying to build on my theory?

Actually, I think we have already established that we disagree about the authenticity of the bible. I believe in the bible and everything in it, even though I admit, I do not understand everything that is written in it. I am pretty sure that on one of your posts you said.. ah here I found it:


But the bible was edited and put together in order to form the religion of christianity. Some books were even edited out completely in order to make the bible what it is now.

Yeah, I understand the bible is what God intended it to be, and works the way it is supposed to work. If man tried to muck it up, they were unknowingly doing what God intended


I think your original post was interesting and I could see how you made some of the connections, that's why I wanted to discuss it, I didn't think much further than that.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:25 PM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



The thing I do not agree with is that some unknown forces are intentionally pushing and pulling us. I believe the Christ and Lucifer metaphors are of natural human traits, some become obsessed with material things while others ar obsessed with spiritual fulfillment and knowledge. No invisible spirits whatsoever, unless you mean human emotions and souls.

Well now I don't understand.....weren't you saying that people are influenced by TV and movies, etc... influencing people what they should want? and that it was not their fault?....here I understood that was what you were saying:



I believe most humans on Earth are greedy in some way because we all desire more money, bigger paychecks, we are all focused on our financial situation e.g. house payments, car payments, cell phone payments, etc. It is no fault of our own though because that is the way the world is set up, and the way TV and movies portray beauty and money only adds to this desire for money because we think 'Man, wouldn't it be nice to look like him/her and have all the stuff he/she has?'

Did I misunderstand? I mean are you saying that people are born to be greedy or they are born to be generous and their in no influences unseen that would change these inborn traits?


I believe the Christ and Lucifer metaphors are of natural human traits

I am trying to understand, so you are saying that Christ Jesus and Lucifer are nothing more than character traits and because people are choosing to be more like Lucifer, they are making the earth like hell? I understand you believe religion is evil and if we get rid of religion people will not have these character traits of Jesus and Lucifer anymore?
edit on 20-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:48 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


So why would god intentionally want the gospels of Jesus removed from the bible? Don't you think if god truly did send Jesus to save our souls that he would want Jesus' gospel in his book?



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 11:00 PM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Yes, people are influenced by movies and TV but movies and TV are productions of man.

Noone is born greedy or generous, it is the environment and influences like TV, movies, and money (all man made) that influences them to be greedy. Some choose (me included) to see past this charade.

If the bible never existed we would still have these completely natural traits. I'm only applying these completely natural human tendencies to the supernatural stories of the bible. There can be nothing 'super'natural within this natural universe.

What I'm saying is that there is absolutely nothing supernatural influencing anything, it is what man has done that has turned Earth into hell, nothing more or less. The bible is based off of these completely natural things only with a supernatural twist to them in order to keep its followers ignorant to the truth, and that truth is that there is no heaven separate from our universe that you can only go to if you believe in a man that lived 2,0000 years ago, we are already in heaven now and the universe is this 'god' that the bible speaks of.

The ten commandments that Moses supposedly brought down from Mt. Sinai? Never happened. That story is a metaphor for natural moral standards that are naturally ingrained into our psyche. Nothing supernatural at all.

I apologize if I confused you and am now somehow disappointing you.
edit on 20-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 07:30 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Healing the sick: Time is the measurement of the suns path across the sky. With time, the sick will heal themselves naturally, either with natural herbs or by their bodies fighting the sickness off, either way it takes time to heal. Nothing supernatural there either.


So, now you're going to tell us that the "Sun" is capable of healing the blind and making the lame to walk?

Sorry, natural herbs don't cure people from being crippled or totally blind.
edit on 21-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 07:37 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




We are all the angels within gods kingdom, in fact as far as we know we are gods greatest creation because we are the only ones that we know of as of right now that can comprehend how stuff works and the only ones that ponders its owner existence. We also have the greatest ability to do good in this world.


No, if you actually read the Bible, humans and angels were made separate.

Angels have more ability than humans and are are sent to earth as messengers and helpmates to help you to comprehend "how stuff works".

Have you ever heard people talk about the knowledge and great works accomplished in ancient times as if there might have been some grand ancient technology that we weren't aware of? Yeah, same thing. It was all done with the assistance of the higher ups.

So, no, it's not all about modern technology having created all great things and this is why.
edit on 21-7-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:02 AM
link   
reply to post by Deetermined
 


Like I said earlier, the bible has been rewritten and re-edited so many times that their is no way of knowing what in it is the original story and what is made up.

If you choose to take the bible at face value, that is your choice but that doesn't make it true.

I see how the world works today and I have never seen anyone walk on water or heal the sick with the wave of a hand. It's not practical or possible by todays standards.

Take your blinders off and look at reality. There are no such things as talking snakes or bushes and there never have been. Words in a book prove NOTHING.

Like I stated in the OP, religion aims to make us feel separate from god. Who are the ones that put the bible in the state that it is in now? Those that ran religion at the time. If the bible stated we are these angels, that would give away the truth, and they couldn't have that.
edit on 21-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:05 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

Good Morning 3NL1GHT3N3D1



So why would god intentionally want the gospels of Jesus removed from the bible? Don't you think if god truly did send Jesus to save our souls that he would want Jesus' gospel in his book?

I don't. I understand Jesus to be the key that unlocks the Bible. I was confused by things you are saying. I am sincerely trying to understand how you came to your conclusions without upsetting you. You said:


We are all the angels within gods kingdom, in fact as far as we know we are gods greatest creation because we are the only ones that we know of as of right now that can comprehend how stuff works and the only ones that ponders its owner existence. We also have the greatest ability to do good in this world.

and also said:


The only thing that desires to be worshiped is man because he wants you to feel inferior so that he may feel superior.

and:


Lucifer = those angels who become greedy and desire too much (humans in general)



It is no fault of our own though because that is the way the world is set up



Noone is born greedy or generous, it is the environment and influences like TV, movies, and money (all man made) that influences them to be greedy. Some choose (me included) to see past this charade.

So based on the things you are saying, I understand that you believe that humans are influenced by other humans and it is not their fault ? But then you also said this:


we know we are gods greatest creation because we are the only ones that we know of as of right now that can comprehend how stuff works and the only ones that ponders its owner existence.

I guess this is where you confuse me so far.... It sounds like you are saying that humans are not responsible (at fault) for their behavior because they have been influenced by other humans. But, you also say that humans have the ability to ponder (think) for themselves, and have the ability to do good. Might you take a moment to clear up anything that I may have misunderstood on this issue of responsibility and influence? Thank you
edit on 21-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: spelling



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:12 AM
link   
reply to post by Deetermined
 


So you've never heard of temporary blindness or fleeting blindness? There are people that go completely blind for a short time and then there vision is completely restored. Jesus isn't here, so how could this be possible? Because it is natural. But I guess you will choose to ignore that fact and keep with your fairy tale.

So a person with a broken leg will never be able to walk again? I'm glad my mom didn't get that memo because it only took a few short months for her leg to completely heal and now her leg is stronger than ever.

Funny how that works isn't it?



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:21 AM
link   
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 



Like I said earlier, the bible has been rewritten and re-edited so many times that their is no way of knowing what in it is the original story and what is made up. If you choose to take the bible at face value, that is your choice but that doesn't make it true.


Hi 3NL1GHT3N3D1,
Will take a minute and remind me how you believe the Bible originated? I am getting this impression that you are saying the Universe is God but God has no intentions or influence, like he is perfect and so he doesn't ponder anything (think) but, we as humans ponder things (think)? So, God made men who does greater things than God? Man made the bible and so everything in the bible is nothing more than things man pondered (thinks)? I guess I am asking you, if you believe the bible has anything in there inspired by God? You cannot say yes, if you are also saying humans are only influenced by other humans.
Please clarify this for me, Thank you.



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:23 AM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Well it seems a bit pointless that he sent his only begotten son to Earth to spread his message only for him to suppress his message by intentionally having man edit out his gospels.

Humans are influenced by other humans, that is not their fault. I said they have the 'ability' to think for themselves, which leaves room for error. Some are pushed and pushed and pushed to believe a certain thing from birth and them being pushed so much and the consequence of hell being presented to them scares them into actually believing what they have been taught.

This is called indoctrination, and all religions practice it, most followers do it unknowingly because that was the way they were raised and they know no better. Indoctrination is of no fault to the child because he/she never got the chance to think for themselves.

I was 'indoctrinated' from birth, but luckily after 22 years, I took advantage of this 'ability' to think for myself, and me thinking for myself released me from the spell I was under.



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 09:32 AM
link   
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Yes, the universe and everything in it is god. God is everything, all the forces of nature, every tree and every leaf, every emotion we have, all the planets and stars, etc.

The origination of the bible is the truth, but like I said earlier, man has twisted that truth by inserting metaphors in order to hide the truth. It is inspired by 'god' because it is based on the natural universe, which is god.

The universe is perfect, it does not think and has no intent other than what its inhabitants can think and intend.

ETA: The bible is based on the truth, except it is spoken in metaphor to hide the truth. Man influencing man has no bearing on how the universe works. If Earth didn't exist the universe wouldn't bat an eye because we are nothing compared to the universe as a whole.
edit on 21-7-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
21
<< 15  16  17    19  20  21 >>

log in

join