Atheist terrorists are as bad as any other religious extremist

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by Milkflavour

 

Yes you may have covered this already, but I'm not sure I agree. Perhaps it can be argued both ways.

I agree with Milkflavour.

For example, being a christian doesn't automatically make a person an anti-semite. They may not share their beliefs but it doesn't mean that have anything against them.

Now you can have a christian that feels Jews need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Is it accurate to say that it is because he is a christian? I think not and that, in my opinion, is where the OP's logic fails.

ETA: Even if that person uses Christianity to validate his antisemitism, it isn't the root cause and it sure doesn't give others the right to claim all other christians are antisemitic.

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by trysts

 

I agree with most of your post but you can murder in the name of Atheism. For example if as an atheist I believe that anyone with dogmatic religious belief need to be killed off and I start killing them I am in effect killing in the name of atheism, or because of my atheism.

I think most of these types of killing should be attributed to extremism. While there are less extremist atheists (if any all), it is extremists nonetheless.

Hi, acuna. In reply, you may have missed one of my comments earlier in the the thread:

"I think you're missing the simplicity of "atheism". It's not a belief. The person who does not believe in gods doesn't have to believe in anything else to be called an atheist. If I don't believe in an omniscient aardvark, it gives you no further information than that."

To elaborate a little, I would say atheism has no object which it is defending or promoting. Atheism is merely a negation. If someone wishes to expound upon why they are an atheist, or rather, does not believe in gods, then that is the place where one, believing in gods, may argue with, in my opinion. The reasons for being an atheist are many, and diverse. But "atheism" itself is empty of a reason. It is just a "no" to the object declared to exist.

reply to post by daskakik

For example, being a christian doesn't automatically make a person an anti-semite. They may not share their beliefs but it doesn't mean that have anything against them.

I agree. For example Hitler didn't try to exterminate the Jews because of his religious belief. He wanted to do that because he hated Jews and he used his belief in god to legitimize his hatred.

Now you can have a christian that feels Jews need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Is it accurate to say that it is because he is a christian? I think not and that, in my opinion, is where the OP's logic fails. ETA: Even if that person uses Christianity to validate his antisemitism, it isn't the root cause and it sure doesn't give others the right to claim all other christians are antisemitic.

It's not that he is a Christian.. it's because of the extreme leanings of his belief. Perhaps that he needed to avenge the death of Christ that was perpetrated by the Jews. That could be argued as killing in the name of Christianity, or killing for Christianity. He would not have wanted to kill Jews had he not held extreme Christian beliefs.

Guess I'm still a little gray on this subject. Thanks for your input!

reply to post by trysts


First let me say that I am an atheist and I completely agree with you. Atheism is simply a lack of belief any gods. However as an atheist I can imagine someone thinking that because of their atheism they were intellectually superior and that in order to eliminate primitive religions, religious thought and help progress our species that they had to kill anyone that held any type of religious belief. They would be doing this because they were anti theist, but it could also be said that they would be doing it as a result of the extremity of their atheism. But really purely because they were crazy and it probably wouldn't matter what their world view was. If they were a christian they would want to kill all non Christians, or if Muslim they would want to kill all non Muslims etc..

I can definitely see your point but I guess I'm having a hard time objectively distancing myself from my point...kind of a gray area for me. Thanks for your thoughts. This is incredibly fascinating.

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by trysts

 

First let me say that I am an atheist

Why?

Why are you atheist?

reply to post by Annee


Hi Annee, thanks for asking. I am an atheist because I haven't seen any evidence for any gods. I think that if there is a "god" type of being, it exists on a level so far out of our understanding that it cannot exist to us. Also the probability that there actually is a being in the way that we have been taught by any of the worlds religions is incredible low and makes very little sense to me.

Where do sit in the belief/non-belief spectrum?

reply to post by acuna

So you do not believe that some form of intelligence designed the world we live in, correct?

Originally posted by Annee
Why?

Why are you atheist?

I am atheist for the same reason most people don't believe in Santa Klaus, Easter Bunny, Zeus, Thor, Poseidon, etc Not enough evidence of such being exits.

Originally posted by Annee
Why are you atheist?

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I'd like to reply if I may.

Personally, I prefer to live life without caring for any of my fellow human beings. I also enjoy torturing small furry animals, and get an especially big kick out of hurting children. I always act without any regard for my actions, and I prefer to pray to Darwin.

At the weekend, I like to rape and murder.

Isn't that why we all choose to remain atheist?

lol

Originally posted by acuna
It's not that he is a Christian.. it's because of the extreme leanings of his belief.

What beliefs? That Christ died for his sins? I don't think the supremacy of the Aryan race and that it should rule the world is part of christianity.

Perhaps that he needed to avenge the death of Christ that was perpetrated by the Jews. That could be argued as killing in the name of Christianity, or killing for Christianity. He would not have wanted to kill Jews had he not held extreme Christian beliefs.

But what about Christians that have something against a group of people that didn't call for Christ's death? Is a Klan member's hatred of blacks a result of his religion?

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by trysts

 

I agree with most of your post but you can murder in the name of Atheism. For example if as an atheist I believe that anyone with dogmatic religious belief need to be killed off and I start killing them I am in effect killing in the name of atheism, or because of my atheism.

I think most of these types of killing should be attributed to extremism. While there are less extremist atheists (if any all), it is extremists nonetheless.

How can some people "get it" so quickly and easily and others not at all. Well said acuna
Its not difficult.

As for my position of atheism as a religion, let me explain it again
There is no evidence that God exists (Some but obviously questionable)
There is no evidence God doesnt exist
The default position should then be agnostic. Atheists choose atheism. Atheists by faith choose not to believe, outside of the logical position of "I dont know".
The new atheist movement has become a religion. They congregate and proselytise and push their agendas, even political.
Enjoy

reply to post by aaaiii


At this point in time no as I haven't seen any evidence of that but I don't think anyone can completely discount the idea. From what we know it makes sense that every living on the earth evolved from a comment ancestor. We have experiments that show that basic organic elements were present in a primordial earth and that those elements could have produced essential amino acids that we think may have been the beginning of it all. But we can only theorize about how life started. Could those first seeds of life been engineered and planted here long ago? Perhaps. I don't think anyone can say for sure, and that's ok.

reply to post by daskakik

What beliefs? That Christ died for his sins? I don't think the supremacy of the Aryan race and that it should rule the world is part of christianity.

The Aryan race ruling the world definitely is not part of Christianity but Hitler believed he was doing God's work. He obviously had a skewed view of Christianity. So skewed and extreme that he believed his race was the "chosen" race by God and that it was his mission to rid the world of the Jews because they were inferior. It wouldn't have mattered if he was Christian, Muslim or whatever else. He was crazy and extreme in his belief, that's why he did what he did.

But what about Christians that have something against a group of people that didn't call for Christ's death? Is a Klan member's hatred of blacks a result of his religion?

I'm not singling out Christianity, I was only using that as an example. This is more about extremism, not about any one specific ideology.

reply to post by acuna

How do you account for the complexity of everything that surrounds us ~ the human body, plant life, geologic processes?

reply to post by aaaiii


It's obviously the work of dragons.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by trysts

 

I agree with most of your post but you can murder in the name of Atheism. For example if as an atheist I believe that anyone with dogmatic religious belief need to be killed off and I start killing them I am in effect killing in the name of atheism, or because of my atheism.

I think most of these types of killing should be attributed to extremism. While there are less extremist atheists (if any all), it is extremists nonetheless.

How can some people "get it" so quickly and easily and others not at all. Well said acuna
Its not difficult.

As for my position of atheism as a religion, let me explain it again
There is no evidence that God exists (Some but obviously questionable)
There is no evidence God doesnt exist
The default position should then be agnostic. Atheists choose atheism. Atheists by faith choose not to believe, outside of the logical position of "I dont know".
The new atheist movement has become a religion. They congregate and proselytise and push their agendas, even political.
Enjoy

Thanks for the support. I'm not sure that I agree that atheism is a religion. You can't say that a lack of a belief is a belief. I think modern atheists get together are because they/we are finally feel that we're not alone and are tired of religion running rampant and as a minority want to be heard.

Can we really say that there is no evidence that any god doesn't exist? We can't say that there isn't any evidence that unicorns don't exist. Seems like kind of a conundrum.

I think god is a creation of man to explain the natural world. The more we learn about how the natural world works the less we need to believe the traditional view of god.

Originally posted by aaaiii
reply to post by acuna

 

How do you account for the complexity of everything that surrounds us ~ the human body, plant life, geologic processes?

As far as the diversity and the complexity of biological life , evolution and natural selection explain that quite nicely. Geologic processes can be explained through physics

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by daskakik

 

It wouldn't have mattered if he was Christian, Muslim or whatever else. He was crazy and extreme in his belief, that's why he did what he did.

Correct, so why point out a psychopaths religion when it is not the root cause of his actions?

I'm not singling out Christianity, I was only using that as an example. This is more about extremism, not about any one specific ideology.

I'm just using it as an example as well. I understand that extremism is not dependent on the persons religious beliefs. This is reflected in the OP's title but the position that someone acting against theists makes atheism a religion is wrong.

Giving three examples of psychopaths who would and did use whatever they could to gain and maintain power, even if it wasn't what they truly believed makes for a weak argument. I think that any one of them would have used religion if it would have been advantageous to their quest for power.

Isn't that why we all choose to remain atheist?

lol

Funny.

My search for God came up empty. Facts and Myth - - - was too much for me.

reply to post by Annee


I don't remember this, but my mother recounts a story from when I was around five years old. At school we sung children hymns like most do. We'd done some nativity thing at christmas and apparanetly I said to her "but he's not real though, is he?". Yet at the time I believed in santa!

Religion has never sat comfortably with me, especially as I got older and had to endure a religious nutter for a headmaster - whose young son had tragically died in a rubgy game. The headmaster needed some form of comfort, which is fine in itself, but was hell bent on converting everyone else. That was it for me.