Atheist terrorists are as bad as any other religious extremist

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by borntowatch

Yeah whatever

Is this some kind of stand up routine cos its very funny.

I like your complete lack of references, magic dust?

edit on 18-7-2012 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)

"Complete lack of sources, huh?" What about the entire paragraph quoted and credited verbatim of Mao's "Little Red Book?" That seems like a source, to me.

Here are some others:

1. Stalin's Strong Orthodox Beliefs: www.georgefox.edu... (Brown University Professor correctly recounts how Joseph Stalin forced over three thousand churches to convert to his preferred Orthodoxy in 1944.

2. This book is a good account of Pol Pot's religious education, background, and desire to unite southeast asia.
Link: books.google.com...

You referenced mao and it was irrelevant in context, pointless.

Stalin was an atheist darwinianist Dawkins states in The God Delusion that "What matters is not whether Hitler and Stalin were atheists... (p. 309). So evidently even Dawkins admits Stalin was an atheist, you on the other hand dont? Chortle chortle

Pol Pot www.youtube.com...
The video has references and statements that describe PP as a atheist, cant be denied.

Originally posted by aaaiii
I don't see atheists blowing things up and shooting doctors.

Bashing atheists is pointless. They are atheists for a reason. Some have been traumatized by organized religion. Just one example.

Pot ~ kettle ~ you know the drill.

Oh so let me enlighten you on atheist terrorists like Pol Pot Mao and Stalin and their respective atheist regimes, they blew things up and shot people, doctors included.

That was easy.

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by aaaiii
I don't see atheists blowing things up and shooting doctors.

Bashing atheists is pointless. They are atheists for a reason. Some have been traumatized by organized religion. Just one example.

Pot ~ kettle ~ you know the drill.

Oh so let me enlighten you on atheist terrorists like Pol Pot Mao and Stalin and their respective atheist regimes, they blew things up and shot people, doctors included.

That was easy.

Then this should be easier still:
Ready?
Did Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin have any other ideology other than basic atheism?
Is it possible that their social-political ideology played a greater role in their killings than their supposed atheism?
Was the basis of their despotic rule inherently just atheism, or another ideal?
If you answered "No," "No," and "Atheism" you haven't researched anything.

If you haven't researched anything, then the Kenyan Muslim in the White House is coming after your guns and your God, so you'd better brick yourself up in a cave with rations, ammunition, and all of Glen Beck's books.
You obviously have shown no interest in actually reading the Bible, so there's no point taking that one.
Make sure you tune in to Fox News ("Where America gets its views") for updates on the atheist scourge that is breaking the very foundation of the planet. /sarcasm

Originally posted by SpookyVince
reply to post by borntowatch

 

You're mixing it.

Religious terrorism is killing for religious reasons.

The Khmer, Mao or Stalin have not killed because of atheism.

Their reasons were other.

The first time ever I have seen the very first comment on ATS actually slash the thread. This thread should have been over after the, literal, second post.

im pretty sure that Stalin or maybe its better to say the USSR was against organized religion not religion in general e.e

Originally posted by Badgered1

Originally posted by borntowatch

Originally posted by aaaiii
I don't see atheists blowing things up and shooting doctors.

Bashing atheists is pointless. They are atheists for a reason. Some have been traumatized by organized religion. Just one example.

Pot ~ kettle ~ you know the drill.

Oh so let me enlighten you on atheist terrorists like Pol Pot Mao and Stalin and their respective atheist regimes, they blew things up and shot people, doctors included.

That was easy.

Then this should be easier still:
Ready?
Did Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin have any other ideology other than basic atheism?
Is it possible that their social-political ideology played a greater role in their killings than their supposed atheism?
Was the basis of their despotic rule inherently just atheism, or another ideal?
If you answered "No," "No," and "Atheism" you haven't researched anything.

If you haven't researched anything, then the Kenyan Muslim in the White House is coming after your guns and your God, so you'd better brick yourself up in a cave with rations, ammunition, and all of Glen Beck's books.
You obviously have shown no interest in actually reading the Bible, so there's no point taking that one.
Make sure you tune in to Fox News ("Where America gets its views") for updates on the atheist scourge that is breaking the very foundation of the planet. /sarcasm

Atheism played a major part.
The same arguments you use against me I can use against the atheist "religion kills people" argument spouted by atheists all the time.
Its banal at best
Atheist terrorists are as bad as any other religious extremist

As for Obama and the decline of YOUR country, its not mine. I am waiting with baited breath, it will signal the return of Jesus and the redemption of His followers from this earth (and I am sick of this earth). Its the fulfilment of my faith. I wait with anticipation and longing. I dont own a gun.

Go to Cambodia and see what was done in the name of communism, communism is political atheism.

Originally posted by borntowatch

As for Obama and the decline of YOUR country, its not mine. I am waiting with baited breath, it will signal the return of Jesus and the redemption of His followers from this earth (and I am sick of this earth). Its the fulfilment of my faith. I wait with anticipation and longing. I dont own a gun.

Go to Cambodia and see what was done in the name of communism, communism is political atheism.

"....done in the name of communism...."
Hmmm...
So because communists (they were Maoists, but that bit of information slipped by you during your exhaustive research field trip) have no need for a deity, they do everything they do because they are atheists? Communism (Maoism, perhaps?) is all about the atheism? Nothing about classless society, control of the means of production by the proletariat? Just atheism?
History. We hide that information in books. We've cleverly hidden all the knowledge of the world in special buildings called libraries.

I have a better idea for you. Rather than waiting with baited breath, why not hold your breath.
He might come sooner....
Might not, though.
Good luck to you on your redemption. I mean that. It'll be a great day. The very first time in history a deity has given solid proof of existence. Can't wait.

Why are you sick of the earth? HE created it, and everything that happens is all part of the big plan, right?
Are you not doubting your deity by questioning his actions? Mysterious ways, and all that. If you're questioning the plan, you may not truly be one of His followers. How embarrassing would that be? You left behind when all your friends have gone.

Communists do everything they do because they are atheists, and Jesus is coming. Duly noted.
That learned me!

If you say the word "gullible" really slowly, it sounds just like you're saying "Jesus."

Originally posted by borntowatch
As for the death tolls from religions, prove it, or cant you. Stalin is believed to have killed up to 100 million,
www.telegraph.co.uk...
or maybe more like 20 million. Go find figures for death tolls by religion to counter that number.
Then we will go on to Mao.
both atheists

So, most if not all serial killers are straight (i.e. not homosexual), hence homosexual people are incapable to kill. That's exactly the kind of shortcuts that you use.

The choice to not believe in a god or gods is an active decision, its a faith choice, its a religion in my opinion..

Please re-read my post describing the different positions that people can take towards religion.

There is never, ever, ever, anyone, nowhere in the univers, no one, who will be any close to convince me that I am religious by being atheist. And I think I speak in the name of all atheists.

You are just so wrong.

By keeping your way and your unrealistic thoughts, you're just digging around you and deepening your own hole.

Who will, at long last, fill it?

I think the OP is trying to point out that even those lacking religious beliefs are also capable of mass killings and genocide.
Just because it wasn't done in the name of atheism doesn't change that fact.

Originally posted by SpookyVince

Originally posted by borntowatch
As for the death tolls from religions, prove it, or cant you. Stalin is believed to have killed up to 100 million,
www.telegraph.co.uk...
or maybe more like 20 million. Go find figures for death tolls by religion to counter that number.
Then we will go on to Mao.
both atheists

So, most if not all serial killers are straight (i.e. not homosexual), hence homosexual people are incapable to kill. That's exactly the kind of shortcuts that you use.

The choice to not believe in a god or gods is an active decision, its a faith choice, its a religion in my opinion..

Please re-read my post describing the different positions that people can take towards religion.

There is never, ever, ever, anyone, nowhere in the univers, no one, who will be any close to convince me that I am religious by being atheist. And I think I speak in the name of all atheists.

You are just so wrong.

By keeping your way and your unrealistic thoughts, you're just digging around you and deepening your own hole.

Who will, at long last, fill it?

Dont let my humble opinion dictate your convictions. I could possibly be wrong. (Not likely (lets be hounest) in reality)
Though even Skorpion, a fella I have had reason to argue with in the past understands my point. Thanks Skorp.
But it was done under atheism.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Atheist terrorists are as bad as any other religious extremist

Apples are as bad as any other oranges.

Nonsensical? I think so. If the OP had stated that atheists are equally capable of atrocities as their religious counterparts, we'd all agree. But by assuming atheism is a religion he (?) started the entire argument on a bad footing.

The problem with the OP is the failure to actually understand the subject on which he speaks, as highlighted by the following post:

The absence of belief in God is a decision made...

When in fact, the absence of a belief in god is the default position. One per cent 'choose' faith, the other 99% are indocrinated.

I sincerely hope you're not from the UK... over here religion is basically a quaint thing practiced by a very small minority. Perhaps that's where the bitterness stems from?

reply to post by CoolerAbdullah786

Clearly their lack of belief in absolute morality and the belief that upon death there is nothing else has completely destroyed their compassion.

If you're referring to the people he was speaking of, then I'm OK with this. But if you're referring to the atheists in general, that is a very stupid thing to say that we don't have a morality or lack compassion totally...

To them when you die nothing else happens

Not true. I can't see why an atheist could not believe in spirits, souls or even reincarnation. That does not in any way involves a god of any sort, and it is perfectly compatible with atheism.

so they don't care about the sanctity of life nor believe that it exists.

What "it"? Life? Yes we do believe that life exists... And why wouldn't we care about life? Are all atheists mass murderers?

Atheists also have no absolute purpose for living.

How much wronger can one be? You have immense prejudices, and they happen to be very false.

They have a very pessimistic view of life in general.

Absolutely not. Far less than all religious biggots who spend their lives in fear of the sanction of god, that god who, I thought, was on the contrary all love and goodness. Why fear it then?

That's an excellent display of your unfounded and uneducated guesses or beliefs about something that you have no idea of.

It's ignorance like this that should be fought. It's not even a different opinion about something, it's just plain ignorance of facts, I'm sorry.

As far as people like Stalin, that they killed and tortured is an issue regarding their personalities. Atheism was incidental.

You'll find, throughout history, that the religious have murdered more people in the name of God than the non-religious have for all other reasons.

The Muslims are our current example. Their extremism is probably a more striking example than the Catholic Church, but only because it is contemporary. People have forgotten over time how horrific were the rack and the piles of wood on which martyrs were born.

Atheist are human beings who can be awful people also and ruthless dictators.
Atheist act as if no belief in God viods them of beliefs.Almost laughable

While I'm not exactly an atheist, more of an agnostic, I'm not religious either. Religion polarizes, period. Once you attribute yourself to a certain belief set, you immediately polarize yourself to the anti argument and suddenly, they must be enemies. Spirituality should be a very personal thing, not thrown in someone else's face just because your convictions are so strong.

reply to post by borntowatch


I was raised a Christian, up until about junior high. That's when I started to question things that I saw being done, or had been done by Christians in the name of the Church. When I couldn't get any straight answers, I looked elsewhere. Since that time I have come to the conclusion, (after much deliberation and self reasoning), that each religion has their own ways. That they try and force their beliefs on you and when you start to question, you get reprimanded for it.
I have since taken up a belief that yes there is a higher power, but without proof, I will base the fact that all religions start on the basis, or grounds, of loving others no matter the race, creed or color of skin. Including animals. Eventually though, along the way, they get misinterpreted and twisted by individuals with power within the religion, and eventually a new "updated" version comes out.

I came across something a while ago and it has some merit. If this is true, then Christians and their "God" have killed more people because they don't believe in the same thing, than any other war or religion in the world.


www.debunkingskeptics.com...

Now this is not to say I am against Christians, nor do I wish to provoke an argument. But if someone can explain why their "God" would do things like this, even more so to the fact that their "God" is supposed to be based on love, compassion and understanding, I would be willing to listen to their points. If they have merit and basis to them.

I would like to add, that this does not include the Christian Crusades, nor the other wars that were fought under the name of "God". Those wars, I don't think need to be pointed out how many were slaughtered because they did not believe in "God"

reply to post by trysts


I agree with most of your post but you can murder in the name of Atheism. For example if as an atheist I believe that anyone with dogmatic religious belief need to be killed off and I start killing them I am in effect killing in the name of atheism, or because of my atheism.

I think most of these types of killing should be attributed to extremism. While there are less extremist atheists (if any all), it is extremists nonetheless.

Originally posted by acuna
reply to post by trysts

 

I agree with most of your post but you can murder in the name of Atheism. For example if as an atheist I believe that anyone with dogmatic religious belief need to be killed off and I start killing them I am in effect killing in the name of atheism, or because of my atheism.

I think most of these types of killing should be attributed to extremism. While there are less extremist atheists (if any all), it is extremists nonetheless.

No, you'd be killing because of ANTI-theism (as in against religion) not atheism, there is an important distinction.... You cannot kill for an absence of belief, only a belief in something... I've covered this several times in this thread already....

Well i just wanted to give my opinion, as ive been lurking in this thread a few times already.

First in replying the OP. I think humans are capable of doing horrible things like murder anyway, regardless of their religion (if any) or other beliefs. So yea atheists can murder as well as religious people can.

Ive seen that people give as example the 'atheist' stalin. This guy was highly paranoid, and besides that while he didnt had a religion, there was a 'belief' in play in this one, communism.

Im a atheist myself, and i cant say its that much of a choise. In my eyes i just cant find any proof at all that a god excists. Books like the 'bible' were written by humans. Instances like the church were founded and are ruled by humans.

Atheist all share the fact that we dont belief in religions, however how we vieuw the rest can be completely different. I see the value in life and i have a goal for living.

I just want to state that some vieuws of atheist are completely wrong in this thread. That i personally think that there are more people killed in name of religions. But that further all humans are capable of doing such things.

reply to post by Milkflavour


Yes you may have covered this already, but I'm not sure I agree. Perhaps it can be argued both ways.