Zimmerman Accused of Molesting his Cousin.

reply to post by Annee

Well, I'll be sure to drop a link to such rules, one way or the other for what they actually state, when I get back home from classes today. I'm really curious at this point. It won't shock me.....and still entirely irrelevent, since rules don't over-ride law and law is absolute on this point of firearms and personal carry.....as you know as well as anyone in the nation. Open Carry is something of state pride there, as well it should be. Arizona is among the only states I regularly saw people of all ages, shapes and sizes carrying firearms on the hip in all manner of public places. Arizona and New Mexico.....

God Bless Freedom and the right to self defense.

Thanks for that on the Watch program though...I wasn't sure I wanted to sink the time for the other posts on the thread, but with your input..yeah, it absolutely is worth the time now. I'll be back when I've put my proper time in this afternoon for learning just how the various watch programs around the nation operate and under what sets of rules, if they vary at all.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Annee

 

Well, I'll be sure to drop a link to such rules, one way or the other for what they actually state, when I get back home from classes today.

You do that. In the mean time I'll take Zimmerman's picture and paste it on a poster with the words:

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN

POSTER BOY FOR EXACTLY WHY

NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH HAS SPECIFIC RULES/GUIDELINES

This took a bit of thinking for how to approach on returning. I must say this has been an interesting time exploring the mindset and general approach of the nation's neighborhood watch programs. Educational would be a word for it.

Annee, you were right and I was wrong. On the rules and guidelines. No other way to say it so there it is.

The majority of the mindset, I entirely agree with, by the way. I'm not backtracking anything by saying that I've repeatedly said Zimmerman should probably stand trial for Manslaughter and the point of commitment came about the time he was on the phone with Police and not heading away as he told them in the past tense, what he'd just seen and not what he was watching by following. In fact, that is a point I've made in the last couple days... I lost track in more than one thread on this, if it was this one or another.

Having said that, here is where I agree. Entirely. Any reasonable person should:

The absolute most important thing to remember as part of a neighborhood crime watch is that you are not the police! Community groups are meant to work with the police to make neighborhoods safer; they are not meant to act as police.

Officers have training and experience and they are the only ones who should approach criminals or attempt to intervene in the commission of a crime. As a member of a neighborhood watch program, it should be your goal to help communicate with local law enforcement and let them handle criminal activity.

Self-defense classes and weapons do not substitute for years of training, experience and judgment. Police work is very dangerous and should be left to professionals.

Source

All very good and very valid points. I sure as heck don't trust the people I know to hold judgement over others in snap decisions where the result could be terminal. I sure don't want to see it from the wrong end while someone like those I know had a gun. Again..these are fair points. Every one of them.

I still believe the No-Weapons policy is absolutely, patently and without a doubt insane..almost beyond reason.

The concerns ought to be well addressed in the parts about 'Do Not Approach', 'Do Not Intervene', 'Do Not Contact', 'Do Not Arrest'. If those rules that I have read all over the nation now, doing my proper time in research, aren't sufficient to get the point across...then the guy who doesn't get it is the problem. Boot Dirty Harry from the group because such a guy wouldn't NEED a weapon to cause problems.

Defense...That is the core and the purpose of a CCW training class. I did mine and went quite a bit further with additional courses offered in the area. It's never offense and it's never about drawing a weapon unless using it is the immediate and irreversible intention of using it,.....if that isn't done in defense, then it's damn sure prison. That would be enough to cover the bases too, I would think.

Finally though, with all the above in mind...and all the guidelines that a child could grasp in stereo, to ask people to deliberately and with that specific intention, look for and report criminals while they have no means to defend an ATTACK, not make a citizens arrest or even make verbal contact..but DEFEND, is insane. Maybe it's great in keeping a nice neighborhood nice. It didn't sound like this was a nice neighborhood to that degree when the purpose he formed his group (his group...and it was a group apparently) was a violent home invasion robbery. We've had a few in this city...

I absolutely was wrong about there being wiggle room or flexibility on weapons policy within organized Neighborhood Watch programs though. Agree with it or not, I can't deny now that is the policy and they are absolute in stating it, coast to coast that I saw. There are some differences in life philosophy and mindset which have no bridge or middle ground....this would seem to be one and from both ends.

He was not on "patrol" when this happened. He was on his way to the store. He was within his rights to have his gun, and to use it to defend his life. Legally speaking, that rule is meaningless anyway, and does not trump a person's right to carry a weapon, if they are within the law.

It's sad that organized watch groups are even necessary, everywhere I lived, except crappy white plains, neighbors looked out for each other and their property without needing to organize some stupid group.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Annee, you were right and I was wrong. On the rules and guidelines. No other way to say it so there it is.

I watched an interview with the woman who set up the Neighborhood Watch that Zimmerman initiated.

He was fully informed. He was not ignorant of those rules and guidelines.

Really - - if he was so concerned about his neighborhood - - he should have done what other groups have done. Involve all the neighbors and set up regular patrols.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Annee, you were right and I was wrong. On the rules and guidelines. No other way to say it so there it is.

I watched an interview with the woman who set up the Neighborhood Watch that Zimmerman initiated.

He was fully informed. He was not ignorant of those rules and guidelines.

Really - - if he was so concerned about his neighborhood - - he should have done what other groups have done. Involve all the neighbors and set up regular patrols.

I certainly won't disagree there. It would seem to me that Neighborhood watch ought to be a 2-3 or more people together anyway. Especially with no weapons...numbers would deter a criminal getting proactive about being reported. Alone like he was, would seem to openly invite just what happened....which adds another level of stupid to his actions, doesn't it?

That is interesting about the interview. This story is full of half truths it would seem. It wasn't one but a number of different reports I read through in looking up one thing or another today where he was described as 'self appointed' leader of his neighbor group. It sure didn't sound inclusive in that context but you keep adding interesting details which the media gets wrong. Nothing new there... lol

I'll be looking forward to the trial where all these various people will be under oath and telling one story, one time and in some order for all of us to follow and get some sense of what happened. It's rough trying to get that by how butchered the media has gotten in all directions with information on this.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I'll be looking forward to the trial where all these various people will be under oath and telling one story, one time and in some order for all of us to follow and get some sense of what happened. It's rough trying to get that by how butchered the media has gotten in all directions with information on this.

It should be an interesting trial. I get it! I get "letter of the law" - - and I get the emotions and personal agendas (both sides).

My take basically is: "Know when to shut up" - - - meaning - - get back in your damn car and go home. You reported it - - done!

This was an unfortunate - and unnecessary death. Caused by Ego - stereotyping - previous negative events - etc. This is also an unfortunate destruction of a man - - - that made mistakes - - - meant well - - - but doesn't seem to be fully connected to himself.

Here's one for you: Zimmerman graduated high school in Virginia - - - before moving to Florida. At some point shortly after moving to Florida - - - Zimmerman was attacked by several men and was hospitalized. Try finding any of this on the internet. There is so much crap - - its had to find the "little things".

Anyway - - he was apparently severely beaten - - - and hospitalized with possible brain injury.

Okay I'm sucked back into this thread. I didn't see anyone post this Hannity interview yet...



A chance to hear everything from the horse's mouth. He address (although kind of dodges) the molestation accusations around 27:20.

Some takeaways I got from the interview overall...

-It sounds like he was absolutely terrified of Trayvon that night.

-He says he reached for his cell phone in his pocket and jacket right before Trayvon punched him (could that not be mistaken for a gun?)

-Trayvon apparently shouted something to him while he was in the car. Was Trayvon trying to diffuse the situation right then and there as some Zimmerman disciples insist that he should have done? If he tried establishing contact and received no response, then I don't really blame him for running after that.

-On that note, Zimmerman says that Trayvon actually didn't really "run", but kind of skipped "confidently". I don't know man. Everything Z says about T, including running away just paints him as this hypermasculine aggressive/confrontational guy. How does one confidently skip anyhow?

The interview doesn't prove or disprove anything, but does continue to shed light on what kind of guy this Zimmerman character is. Now, I really wish they could release the phone call between Trayvon and his girlfriend to clear up a lot about HIM, and finally hear the entire tale from an alternative source....

reply to post by solarjetman


Fixed video link

reply to post by solarjetman


I highly recommend anybody with an interest in this case take the time out to listen to the interview in full.

In my opinion Zimmerman makes his point very well, as far as I can tell his statements seem to match the evidence.

I am convinced Trayvon Martin was unquestionably the aggressor, it is not illegal to follow someone who you are suspicious of but it is illegal to assault someone who you believe may be following you.

Charging this man with murder is a farce.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


You do realize he has been coached by his lawyers and the entire interview is most likely scripted?

It common practice for defendants to not even testify at their own trial. It is highly uncommon for a defendant to give a TV interview before the trial has even taken place.

The only reason his lawyers would allow this is if the whole interview has been scripted.

Originally posted by TKDRL
He was not on "patrol" when this happened. He was on his way to the store. He was within his rights to have his gun, and to use it to defend his life. Legally speaking, that rule is meaningless anyway, and does not trump a person's right to carry a weapon, if they are within the law.

It's sad that organized watch groups are even necessary, everywhere I lived, except crappy white plains, neighbors looked out for each other and their property without needing to organize some stupid group.

If you guys ever get your stories straight you might have something here.
So far his defenders say he was sitting in his truck PARKED.
He was justified because he was on "official duty"
Now, he was on his way to the store.
He was not "on duty."
Martin went behind the houses and was standing right next to Zimmerman's truck all at the same time. This is fascinating.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
How many even bothered here to see these were both Children playing children's games at 6 and 8 years old when the accusations claim anything began?

This type of dishonesty is exactly why I do not believe you are genuine but are stubborn. I have played this exact hand about 15 times now. It is getting old.
18 and 16 are not only not kids, they are just the right ages to put his ass in jail at the time.

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

You do realize he has been coached by his lawyers and the entire interview is most likely scripted?

It common practice for defendants to not even testify at their own trial. It is highly uncommon for a defendant to give a TV interview before the trial has even taken place.

The only reason his lawyers would allow this is if the whole interview has been scripted.

edit on 7/19/2012 by IpsissimusMagus because: (no reason given)

The whole thing is a mess.

Anything that comes out of Trayvon Martin's parents camp is scripted to have the maximum impact on the media as well. Why in the world do Trayvon Martin's parents have a legal team retained at this stage?

reply to post by Sparky63


Well then these are completely conflicting with earlier reports. I think there is some confusion and we are still waiting for all the facts to surface and a jury to decide what we are guessing.
Can living witness's be coerced or even threatened (keeping in mind stand your ground law has a big lobby behind it and the NRA has unlimited money to spend) to agree with a defendant, especially when the only one there who might dispute their version is dead? Like any conspiracy we should look with skepticism and test the theory of the truth, if it is possible a man or worse a child was murdered. Perhaps Zimmerman acted in self defense. I don't know but I think we need to know as best we can determine. That is civility in a society and keeps us from being and living as thoughtless barbarians. It is not a (temporary) threat of violence or fear but (a constant) respect for human life that should give us our civility and decency. Mutually assured respect might work as well as mutually assured destruction. For some people, it is repellant to even try peace. Now why might that be?

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Sparky63

 

Well then these are completely conflicting with earlier reports. I think there is some confusion and we are still waiting for all the facts to surface and a jury to decide what we are guessing.
Can living witness's be coerced or even threatened (keeping in mind stand your ground law has a big lobby behind it and the NRA has unlimited money to spend) to agree with a defendant, especially when the only one there who might dispute their version is dead? Like any conspiracy we should look with skepticism and test the theory of the truth, if it is possible a man or worse a child was murdered. Perhaps Zimmerman acted in self defense. I don't know but I think we need to know as best we can determine. That is civility in a society and keeps us from being and living as thoughtless barbarians. It is not a (temporary) threat of violence or fear but (a constant) respect for human life that should give us our civility and decency. Mutually assured respect might work as well as mutually assured destruction. For some people, it is repellant to even try peace. Now why might that be?

edit on 20-7-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

I think those people react this way out of fear. They personally identify with either Trayvon or Zimmerman and see the other guy as representative of something or group that they fear in their own lives (this goes for BOTH sides). In their minds, an unfavorable outcome of this case would imply that the group they fear continues to gain power in this society, and dammit that needs to stop at once.

But I dunno.. for me personally, I was semi-active in the last thread before it got shut down, and after it did guess what.. the sun still rose the next morning, life went on.. and more importantly I started reviewing more of the other news items going on, many of which had far more severe issues at stake. As much of an ass or hero Zimmerman might be, food prices are going up, drones are going to start patrolling the US, Chevron will start drilling in Iraq next year, and scientists just made GM sheep that are 15% human. That's just barely scratching the surface. As long as no new amazing evidence is pouring out in this case, we need to keep our eye on the ball and stop fearing this mythical bogeyman that the Zimmerman or Trayvon character may represent, and instead channel our frustrations towards the guys who are PAYING the media to keep spewing out crap to keep us angry at each other. There's a lot of weirdness in the air and TPTB have to to love something that distracts us this much...