Zimmerman Accused of Molesting his Cousin.

Originally posted by Sparky63
Well, I guess I am ruled out as a juror now because the well has already been poisoned with the possibility that Zimmerman may have molested a relative. How can I put this accusation out of my mind and find him "not guilty" knowing that he might molest some minor in the future? Or maybe I will just figure that finding him guilty is just Karma biting him in the ass for diddling his cousin. Zimmerman's hopes of getting a fair trial are pretty much gone.
Evidently, this is exactly what some people want.

I once put a shotgun in some guys face as he was crawling into my bedroom window at about 1am. Fortunately he screamed like a girl and ran off into the night when he saw that I was about to blow his brains out. I was about 2 seconds from killing him. I sympathize with Zimmerman. He doesn't have to allow someone to beat him to death just to prove he is not a racist. Everyone talks about what Zimmerman could have done differently. But what about Treyvon? He could have respectfully explained who he was and what he was doing and still be alive today. We all reap what we sow.

edit on 7/17/2012 by Sparky63 because: added comment

I don't see Zimmerman as a racist at all, but still feel that he instigated the situation that resulted in the shooting. I don't think it would have mattered what race Martin was, the result would have been the same in the given circumstance. Zimmerman took the law into his own hands and tried to be "high and mighty" as the neighborhood watch. This resulted in a death.

I go even further and say that the ONLY problem I have with it was the fact that Zimmerman was carrying a gun as opposed to some other, less lethal weapon. A stun gun would have been effective and wouldn't have resulted in death. This is not the "Old West" and while we are free to have guns for protection and hunting and even collecting, that doesn't mean we have to carry them around with us at all times. A different choice would have meant the difference in a murder trial for Zimmerman vs a tresspassing and possible burglary trial (if he had been the one doing the robberies) for Martin. I'd prefer the latter be the one taking place.

I won't even go as far as to say that Zimmerman committed murder, but he did commit manslaughter due to the decisions he made, Martin fighting back and Zimmerman shooting him. Both made bad choices, Martin lost his life because of his. I don't see him as some "innocent kid" but he didn't deserve to die because of it.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


I agree with much of what you say, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility that Zimmerman might be the one dead now if he wasn't carrying a firearm for his own personal protection. Maybe Treyvon wouldn't have been satisfied with beating Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk until he saw blood, maybe he would have done it one to many times with enough force to crack Zimmerman's skull.

That gun could very well have saved Zimmerman's life.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


If Treyvon attacked Zimmerman and was beating Zimmermans head against the sidewalk, he deserved to die. In my opinion.

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

I agree with much of what you say, but we shouldn't ignore the possibility that Zimmerman might be the one dead now if he wasn't carrying a firearm for his own personal protection. Maybe Treyvon wouldn't have been satisfied with beating Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk until he saw blood, maybe he would have done it one to many times with enough force to crack Zimmerman's skull.

That gun could very well have saved Zimmerman's life.

edit on 7/17/2012 by Sparky63 because: spelling

You are right that it may have been the case.

I still think the stun-gun or not following and confronting him to start with would have been the best option. With either of those, there wouldn't have been a death of either of them.

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

If Treyvon attacked Zimmerman and was beating Zimmermans head against the sidewalk, he deserved to die. In my opinion.

IF

Damn, that's a big one.

Our own innocence or guilt isn't determined by the actions of others but by our reaction to them.
Had Zimmerman not followed and confronted Martin, regardless of him being suspicious or not, there would not have been a death. It's Zimmerman's choice to act on behalf of law enforcement even though he wasn't a member of law enforcement that resulted in the death, so he is guilty of manslaughter.

If Martin was breaking into Zimmerman's home and the same scuffle then shooting took place, Zimmerman wouldn't be guilty but it was his decision and actions that led to the shooting, therefore, he is guilty.

It has zero to do with the race of either man. It has zero to do with the guilt or innocence of either man in any other instance. It has to do with this instance and the actions that took place. That is what the court is to look at, and the basis upon which the decision has to be made.

Many of us want to hail him as a hero because he stood up for the neighborhood watch and confronted someone he thought to be suspicious. It's a matter of protecting our homes and what we hold dear. Our emotions point us toward making him a hero instead of an instigator.

Many of us see him as a cold blooded killer because he attacked a teen who we feel was innocent. If he hadn't followed and confronted, there wouldn't have been a scuffle and the shooting wouldn't have happened. Again, our emotions point us in a direction due to Martin's age and our hearts wanting to protect the safety of our children.

The only unbiased way to look at it is to look at the actions and the results and take the reasons and the personas out of it.

1. a suspicious character
2. a call to 911
3. following said character and confronting him against the advice given by 911
4. a fight happening
5. a shooting due to the fight

It should have ended after number 2. It didn't. He instigated the action in number 3 so he is responsible. The reasons and intentions are not what's on trial. The actions are on trial and he is guilty of the actions that resulted in the loss of a life.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

I still think the stun-gun or not following and confronting him to start with would have been the best option. With either of those, there wouldn't have been a death of either of them.

As the police say.

Zimmerman had several opportunities to do everything right.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

I still think the stun-gun or not following and confronting him to start with would have been the best option. With either of those, there wouldn't have been a death of either of them.

As the police say.

Zimmerman had several opportunities to do everything right.

Agreed.

And his intentions may have been honorable at some level, but his actions and decisions made it what it now is

If I noticed some guy following me around I would be upset too and ask the guy why he was following me. If I saw some suspicious looking person walking around my neighborhood I would call the police. I wouldn't grab a gun and try to follow him.

No one knows who began the physical altercation. But in my opinion Trayvon had more of a right to confront the person who was following him. Than Zimmerman had a right to follow and confront someone walking down the street.

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
If I noticed some guy following me around I would be upset too and ask the guy why he was following me. If I saw some suspicious looking person walking around my neighborhood I would call the police. I wouldn't grab a gun and try to follow him.

No one knows who began the physical altercation. But in my opinion Trayvon had more of a right to confront the person who was following him. Than Zimmerman had a right to follow and confront someone walking down the street.

Very good point! I guess if I was in that situation, I'd do the same.

Originally posted by habitforming

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

If Treyvon attacked Zimmerman and was beating Zimmermans head against the sidewalk, he deserved to die. In my opinion.

IF

Damn, that's a big one.

Yes, We can all speculate on the IF's. If your not prepared to use deadly force to protect your own life or the life of others you better not carry a gun. Zimmerman made his decision, I just hope he can get a fair trial.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by PurpleChiten

I still think the stun-gun or not following and confronting him to start with would have been the best option. With either of those, there wouldn't have been a death of either of them.

As the police say.

Zimmerman had several opportunities to do everything right.

Agreed.

And his intentions may have been honorable at some level, but his actions and decisions made it what it now is

Ummm - - well I'd say honorable would have been following Neighborhood Watch Protocol.

Early on I watched a show that interviewed the woman who ran the Neighborhood Watch Training Program.

She said: Zimmerman attended the meeting. He viewed the training film. She spoke with him. (they don't just hand out a pamphlet and say go home and read it).

She said the film stresses STRONGLY - - no personal contact/intervention and no guns. You are Eyes and Informant only.

Over zealous is a weak excuse in this case IMO.

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
But in my opinion Trayvon had more of a right to confront the person who was following him. Than Zimmerman had a right to follow and confront someone walking down the street.

Yes.

I believe the police said Zimmerman had 4 opportunities to identify himself as Neighborhood Watch.

He never did identify himself to Trevor.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
3. following said character and confronting him against the advice given by 911
4. a fight happening
5. a shooting due to the fight

It should have ended after number 2. It didn't. He instigated the action in number 3 so he is responsible. The reasons and intentions are not what's on trial. The actions are on trial and he is guilty of the actions that resulted in the loss of a life.

I have to respectfully disagree. No laws were being broken by following Treyvon or by confronting him. The law was broken when one or the other was attacked. This attack resulted in the loss of life.

Heck we could say that if Zimmerman had just stayed in bed that none of this would have happened.
The attacker, whoever that was is the instigator of the resulting death.

Originally posted by Annee


Ummm - - well I'd say honorable would have been following Neighborhood Watch Protocol.

Early on I watched a show that interviewed the woman who ran the Neighborhood Watch Training Program.

She said: Zimmerman attended the meeting. He viewed the training film. She spoke with him. (they don't just hand out a pamphlet and say go home and read it).

She said the film stresses STRONGLY - - no personal contact/intervention and no guns. You are Eyes and Informant only.

Over zealous is a weak excuse in this case IMO.

That's good information to have. I haven't been following it closely, but that's some majorly pertinent information. That could very well be the deciding factor for the jury. He knew, as part of the neighborhood watch, that he shouldn't be carrying the gun and shouldn't have personal contact/intervention, so he is definitely at fault.

Originally posted by Sparky63

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
3. following said character and confronting him against the advice given by 911
4. a fight happening
5. a shooting due to the fight

It should have ended after number 2. It didn't. He instigated the action in number 3 so he is responsible. The reasons and intentions are not what's on trial. The actions are on trial and he is guilty of the actions that resulted in the loss of a life.

I have to respectfully disagree. No laws were being broken by following Treyvon or by confronting him. The law was broken when one or the other was attacked. This attack resulted in the loss of life.

Heck we could say that if Zimmerman had just stayed in bed that none of this would have happened.
The attacker, whoever that was is the instigator of the resulting death.

The information that Annee just provided shoots that down. Zimmerman claims to have been acting on behalf of the neighborhood watch but didn't follow the guidelines set forth by them, so he was in the wrong.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus
But in my opinion Trayvon had more of a right to confront the person who was following him. Than Zimmerman had a right to follow and confront someone walking down the street.

Yes.

I believe the police said Zimmerman had 4 opportunities to identify himself as Neighborhood Watch.

He never did identify himself to Trevor.

Just wondering, was Zimmerman required by law to identify himself as a neighborhood watch? I am not aware of this requirement. Maybe if they had a polite conversation instead of a fight he would have done so.
Hard to explain that you are a neighborhood watch when your head is getting beat into the sidewalk.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
The information that Annee just provided shoots that down. Zimmerman claims to have been acting on behalf of the neighborhood watch but didn't follow the guidelines set forth by them, so he was in the wrong.

Guidelines are not laws. If Zimmerman wasn't breaking any laws he did not deserve to be attacked.

reply to post by Sparky63


That's not the point.

See, that's the problem with a lot of ATS posters.

The point often FLIES over the heads of some of these posters. You try to explain to them that Zimmerman was wrong to take the law into his own hands and they say, "well, the other guy was bashing his head. he deserved to die". How old are you?

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
He knew, as part of the neighborhood watch, that he shouldn't be carrying the gun and shouldn't have personal contact/intervention, so he is definitely at fault.

Yes - - he knowingly created and escalated an unnecessary situation that resulted in death of an innocent 17 year old boy.

(YES - completely innocent and minding his own business - - - in this case)

Zimmerman was the pursuer and never identified himself and why he was following.