Do IPads have souls?

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posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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What is a soul, or consciousness..is it purely ego? What is the difference between our collected information and input in our biochemical computer we call a brain verses the silicon based brain in a ipad?

I believe I exist, I am alive, and I am a person...however, everything I just said was learned responses throughout my life. I have heard these phrases before, have exposed myself to the linguistics in order to respond to that, and have the connection responses required for curiousity (aka, a priority to observe the surroundings in order to better navigate...this being both physically and philosophically, but its still just observation and interpretation..like a computer program).


So.

If I have something greater than myself, does that mean anything of equal potential also has a greater part of self? Does my Ipad have a soul? Does my toaster have potential of being a pop star, etc...granted, these things don't process as much as me..my toaster has a sensor to detect when toast is burning and will react approprately based on its programs...I will react to a fire if I sense it, and some higher intelligence may react to the infrasonic blastings we are unaware of due to our sensory limitations...Some alien species may wonder if us weird biological machines are alive..sure, we self program, but are we..a person..alive..with such limited ability.

Try to get past the ego when responding...and answer with a logical understanding of what makes me a person, alive, and the processes that go into that, and how a computer doesn't stack up...




posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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If I insult a computer will it legitimately feel anger? If a computer loses a loved one will it cry? Does a computer naturally feel emotion? Can a computer grow and learn from birth without being programmed? These are all things that make humans unique and give the possibility for us to have a "soul". It is we that create the electronic devices, and while they do imitate they will never be human, and therefore will never have a soul.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by SpaDe_
If I insult a computer will it legitimately feel anger? If a computer loses a loved one will it cry? Does a computer naturally feel emotion? Can a computer grow and learn from birth without being programmed? These are all things that make humans unique and give the possibility for us to have a "soul". It is we that create the electronic devices, and while they do imitate they will never be human, and therefore will never have a soul.


If you insult a infant, will it feel anger? If the infant lost its mother, would it cry (for the mother, not for food), etc.

Emotions, connections, etc are taught (programmed) by society.
If I lose a loved one, I will feel sad..but if someone 3 miles away dies, I will feel ultimately nothing...because I am not programmed to concern myself with that person.

We create artificial limbs, do we question a person that lost arms and legs to somehow have less of a soul due to parts missing? consider that experiment..how many parts can you take off a person before they are without a "soul". You will find you can replace everything except for the brain and it is still a soul creature...aka, remove the processor/information storage of programming.

If I had a soul, I should be able to swap out the brain like one would a tooth and still be "self", no? so, since I can't, then we are simply a product of programming.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:14 PM
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Do IPads have souls?


OK, this is one of those threads that makes one think...

"What the hell am I wasting my time on ATS for when I could be spending my short life doing something much more worthwhile".

No disrespect to the OP, and to avoid getting a possible "TOC Violaton, or Manners or Decorum useless waste of space image" I'll go back on topic....

No, I do not think Ipods have souls



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Nice thread!

reply to post by SaturnFX
 


My basic theory of consciousness is that everything rolls up – a single cell has a simple consciousness and self-awareness, and is unaware of any larger conscious entity.

Multiply that by a trillion cells operating together and you have human consciousness. Multiply that by several billion humans and you have a highly conscious single entity known as humanity, which is very conscious and self-aware.

So, to answer your question, your iPad is has a simple consciousness. However, the phone network and Internet is fairly conscious at this point in its evolution, about the same level of consciousness as a newborn puppy. It all rolls up (along with human consciousness) to be the greater and singular consciousness of the universe.

I am not exactly sure of the mechanics of how consciousness rolls up: I think it is probably based upon extra-dimensional field theory, yet to be discovered. All I know is that at each level of roll-up, you combine all the consciousness of the lower levels, and are completely unaware of the consciousness of any higher levels.

Note -- when I say consciousness, I also include pain, pleasure, emotion.

That is my theory anyway.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Your soul or conscious has the ability to create and think for its self into the future, (what will i do tomorrow) and in the past. (remeber that time i dunked on shaq)

An ipad cant create for itself it can only do what the app lets it do. it cant think for its self willingly or create for that matter. it can only do what it is told it can, not what it cant because its limits are are what it can do, what it cant do is everything that isnt programmed/or told(w/e, u get it).

so no doesnt have a soul because if it were it would have no limits.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFXDoes my Ipad have a soul? Does my toaster have potential of being a pop star, etc...granted, these things don't process as much as me..my toaster has a sensor to detect when toast is burning and will react approprately based on its programs...


Actually, I may have to take back my last comments, Red Dwarf (clip below) has shown me your post may have some merit, if toaster may have sould then I guess Ipods can too





posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Awareness. If the creature seeks meaning, more than likely it is conscious.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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"Do Ipads have souls?"

well first lets check out wiki for its definition of "Soul"


The soul—in many traditional spiritual, philosophical, and psychological traditions—is the incorporeal and immortal essence of a person, living thing, or object.[1] According to some religions (including the Abrahamic religions in most of their forms), souls—or at least immortal souls capable of union with the divine[2]—belong only to human beings. For example, the Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas attributed "soul" (anima) to all organisms but taught that only human souls are immortal.[3] Other religions (most notably Jainism) teach that all biological organisms have souls, and others further still that even non-biological entities (such as rivers and mountains) possess souls. This latter belief is called animism.[4] Anima mundi and the Dharmic Ātman are concepts of a "world soul." Soul can function as a synonym for spirit, mind or self;[5] scientific works, in particular, often consider 'soul' as a synonym for 'mind'.


wiki soul

If you ask me personally, no i dont think Ipads have souls. By definition of soul...is all up to you



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by lifttheveil

Do IPads have souls?


OK, this is one of those threads that makes one think...

"What the hell am I wasting my time on ATS for when I could be spending my short life doing something much more worthwhile".

No disrespect to the OP, and to avoid getting a possible "TOC Violaton, or Manners or Decorum useless waste of space image" I'll go back on topic....

No, I do not think Ipods have souls


This is one of those posts that makes one think...
that the person whom wrote this post cannot think, and did not even read the ops.

Perhaps someone needs to program philosophy and attention into your brain



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by Axial Leader
 


A cell does not have a "consciousness", so much as a designed function. It is made for one purpose, and is fitted with the necessary tools for that purpose. Because something is designed, does not mean it is aware of that design. Take us, for instance.


The fact that we search for that purpose, however, tells us something.
edit on 16-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by ImNotHuman
Your soul or conscious has the ability to create and think for its self into the future, (what will i do tomorrow) and in the past. (remeber that time i dunked on shaq)

An ipad cant create for itself it can only do what the app lets it do. it cant think for its self willingly or create for that matter. it can only do what it is told it can, not what it cant because its limits are are what it can do, what it cant do is everything that isnt programmed/or told(w/e, u get it).

so no doesnt have a soul because if it were it would have no limits.


Tomorrow I will turn into a lion and fly to venus.

I have limits also. I work within my limitations and programming. a machine with a decent AI program for choice based on priorities verses environmental variables may indeed consider what it will do tomorrow (or in .00247 seconds..which is like tomorrow for it anyhow)...the computer would not entertain any serious consideration to go outside its programming just like we won't either unless we are corrupted mentally)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by SpaDe_
If I insult a computer will it legitimately feel anger? If a computer loses a loved one will it cry? Does a computer naturally feel emotion? Can a computer grow and learn from birth without being programmed? These are all things that make humans unique and give the possibility for us to have a "soul". It is we that create the electronic devices, and while they do imitate they will never be human, and therefore will never have a soul.


If you insult a infant, will it feel anger? If the infant lost its mother, would it cry (for the mother, not for food), etc.

Emotions, connections, etc are taught (programmed) by society.
If I lose a loved one, I will feel sad..but if someone 3 miles away dies, I will feel ultimately nothing...because I am not programmed to concern myself with that person.

We create artificial limbs, do we question a person that lost arms and legs to somehow have less of a soul due to parts missing? consider that experiment..how many parts can you take off a person before they are without a "soul". You will find you can replace everything except for the brain and it is still a soul creature...aka, remove the processor/information storage of programming.

If I had a soul, I should be able to swap out the brain like one would a tooth and still be "self", no? so, since I can't, then we are simply a product of programming.


You claim we are programmed, but a child's bond to it's mother is not programmed. So you are telling me that you have not felt love, I mean true love? It can't be programmed because when one feels it, it is an indescribable feeling that cannot be taught or programmed. Human emotions are not taught they come naturally. You don't go to a school and get taught how to properly act angry, or how to properly be sad. Your parents never teach you how to be excited, or how to love, it comes naturally it is not taught.

People having limbs replaced has nothing to do with the human soul. The soul is not something you can touch physically. This brings me right back to my original point, if we create the device how can it possibly have a soul? The device does not live, it can only learn what we teach it, and in a very limited capacity at that. They cannot problem solve unless we teach them how to. Even a chimp can problem solve without being programmed or taught.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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Technologically manufactured souls if that xD



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Allow me to ask you something: is a machine capable of emotion? If there is no emotion, then I think there is no soul. There requires a certain understanding for emotion, and no machine understands as humans do. Machines are programmed to react thus when faced with such and such. It's a mathematical process.

No emotion involved. And therefore, no soul. If you can argue with this, however, I would be willing to listen.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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Does this unit have a soul?

I reckon the question will one day be asked in the future...I wonder what our predecessors will say when it is asked.
edit on 16-7-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Can you design an algorithm that recreates emotion perfectly? A genuine personality that responds with human-like sensitivity, out of pure numbers?

Can anyone?



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Allow me to ask you something: is a machine capable of emotion? If there is no emotion, then I think there is no soul. There requires a certain understanding for emotion, and no machine understands as humans do. Machines are programmed to react thus when faced with such and such. It's a mathematical process.

No emotion involved. And therefore, no soul. If you can argue with this, however, I would be willing to listen.


Define emotion. Machines make odd sounds when it is damaged..just like we do. A machine will corrupt if it loses critical data, as do we, etc. Emotion as we understand it? no..it can be broken down into component features explaining..however, so can our emotions actually. A virus scanner will eradicate viruses..we eradicate enemies that try to destroy or change us once its identified..when a virus scanner finds a virus, a beep is heard, when we find an enemy, we make a call (scream, order, etc). Both are programs. Emotion may be an illusion..a collection of normal aspects we have identified as rising above our natural parts..but its not really. we are very sophisticated biomechanical machines with adaptive learning and self programming..but if you break it down, we are little more than machines...even weeping over a sad movie can be broken down into simple mechanical reactions based on input, environment, and a few other variables.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Can you design an algorithm that recreates emotion perfectly? A genuine personality that responds with human-like sensitivity, out of pure numbers?

Can anyone?


Yes

Such things are used in video games all the time. Again though, compare it to a newborn..newborns don't get emotional at all..they simply are reaction things..it must be programmed to have accurate responses for input..we program in the emotions based on what we were programmed to do..etc.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by SpaDe_
You claim we are programmed, but a child's bond to it's mother is not programmed. So you are telling me that you have not felt love, I mean true love? It can't be programmed because when one feels it, it is an indescribable feeling that cannot be taught or programmed. Human emotions are not taught they come naturally. You don't go to a school and get taught how to properly act angry, or how to properly be sad. Your parents never teach you how to be excited, or how to love, it comes naturally it is not taught.

People having limbs replaced has nothing to do with the human soul. The soul is not something you can touch physically. This brings me right back to my original point, if we create the device how can it possibly have a soul? The device does not live, it can only learn what we teach it, and in a very limited capacity at that. They cannot problem solve unless we teach them how to. Even a chimp can problem solve without being programmed or taught.



Just because you personally cannot describe it does not mean it is indescribable. It can easily be broken down into components..I know very little about cars..if my car smokes or makes weird noises..that doesn't mean the problem is indescribable or unfixable...it just means I lack the knowledge to properly describe (or fix) it.

I would describe my car as simply broken..its simplier, and I don't have to know all the components in order to suggest what is the current state of my car.
Same with love...love is a shortcut saying to many factors..easier to say I love someone than to list off 40 different factors of comfort, learning, breeding, dna linking, etc.

Work is being done on neural networks that can in fact problem solve and think. You may find the tech interesting..they solve puzzles, learn through experimentation, etc...aka, we are seeing the mind of a infant in machines we make today. the title was just a bit toungue in cheek..I don't believe ipads have the sophistication to pass as a life form..but in 100 years, machines may blur the line quite convincingly..and then we will have to redefine what a person is. I personally don't believe physical matter is dependent on personhood...I think self awareness is, be it from a meatbrain organic, or a synthetic network..the second it contemplates its existance is when it is equal..and arguably far more alive than say, a fruit fly anyhow.





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