Official: US ship fires on boat off Dubai, 1 dead

Originally posted by murch
reply to post by Doom and Gloom

 

Yes I know the US is not the only one. That's also a bit sad. All the nations that adopted this (including my own) have adopted a policy that means whenever they are travelling in foreign waters they are effectively going to shoot any approaching craft that does not understand the warning message's given.

You apparently do not understand maritime standards. When you pilot a boat or ship on the ocean, there are also rules to follow, maritime law specifically. Also, when you take a boat out into open waters and as captain you are responsible for knowing these rules. Which are international and does not matter what country an individual is from, as the methods are easily understood no matter what language the person may speak. There are other methods of communicating other than voice. There are light signals that mean certain things. There are signals to be sent via flags. If a supposed captain takes a craft out, he is therefore responsible for knowing what these signals are and the proper use of these signals. If not, well.......you must accept the consequences of ignorance.

These same signals and communication are also used to signal other craft in the area of distress. So it does work both ways. Knowing the proper signals could mean the difference between life or death, one way or another.

reply to post by Skewed


And what if the captain of the boat is a high school kid who is out for a enjoyment ride with his friends at the beach where he always goes?

I know this is not what happened but as you can see, anyone can really vessel a boat. How many teens are on the lakes and beaches here in the US driving boats? Many do not know of anything other then how to drive the boat.

reply to post by Lostmymarbles


Then they suffer the consequences.

What happens if a unlicensed teen gets behind the wheel of a car and does not know or understand the rules of the road?

reply to post by murch


Last I checked, the Persian Gulf belonged to the Persians, or Iranians....US should calm it's tits for a bit and mind it's own business.

reply to post by Skewed


The US operates under maritime law in all of it's courts..Didn't you know that?

Further information from rueters:

The fishermen, hospitalised with gunshot wounds after the incident near Dubai's Jebel Ali port, said on Tuesday that they received no warning before the U.S. craft opened fire, and that their craft had attempted to avoid any contact with it. "We had no warning at all from the ship, we were speeding up to try and go around them and then suddenly we got fired at," 28-year-old Muthu Muniraj told Reuters from hospital, his legs punctured by the rounds of the U.S. craft's .50-caliber gun. "We know warning signs and sounds and there were none; it was very sudden. My friend was killed, he's gone. I don't understand what happened."

uk.reuters.com...

As always there are 2 sides to each story. My conclusion is that this was a combination of error and misjudgement. The personnel on board the supply vessels are described as a security team. There are reportedly only 3 members of navy staff.

The fishing boat attempted to speed up to pass boat (not advisable, but they are in their own waters so should be given the benefit of the doubt) the navy boat then issues warnings which would be hard to hear/sea when travelling at speed (remember these guys are fisherman in an extremely busy stretch of water so I believe them when they say they are aware of warning signals).

Warning shots were fired. This is where it falls down for me. I think we are dealing with inexperience at shooting at a moving target. I think the warning shots are what got them unfortunately. Otherwise why would they be here at all. They would all be dead. A targeted volley of .50 cal would annihilate a small vessel.

Underestimating the speed of the vessel as it accelerated into the line of warning fire would account for all sides of this issue.

Regrettable accident.

reply to post by murch

I think the warning shots are what got them unfortunately. Otherwise why would they be here at all. They would all be dead. A targeted volley of .50 cal would annihilate a small vessel.

I was wondering about this myself. A 50 cal fired from a helicopter will often ricochet off the water. Firing from the deck of a boat would make the angle against the water even more shallow, and more likely to ricochet. When Coast Guard fires at a small vessel, they usually aim for the engines or the waterline of the hull. This is the quickest way to shut down the boat and preserve life if possible. I don't know if the Navy uses similar protocol, but assuming they do, it would be easy to see how a ricochet could happen. Firing near the waterline of a fast-moving boat, from the deck of a pitching ship, with an automatic weapon is a very dicey thing.

I'm wondering if the warning shots are what did the damage. If they had intentionally fired upon the occupants of the boat, I highly doubt the boat would have been able to continue back to the dock.

I still don't think the Navy did anything wrong in defending their ship, but I do think there is a good chance that the death and injuries were accidental.

Originally posted by murch
Maybe not an act of direct provocation but still a heinous act. As for all those that are commenting on it may have got too close etc, remember there is no state of war declared so that does not give the US navy carte blanch to shoot people who get close to their boats.

edit on 16-7-2012 by murch because: (no reason given)

How was it a "heinous act"? If you get warned and you ignore the warnings then it's your own damn fault if you get shot up.

Also "no state of war declared"? Remember the USS Cole? Yes? Well there wasn't a state of war declared then either.

reply to post by Gazmeister




Just a simple fishing boat. Oh sure it has a few extra engines in case we find some really fast sea bass or perhaps a wily squid.

24-hour time out no toy's

Originally posted by followtheevidence
According to THIS article, "the boat appeared to be a civilian vessel".

How on EARTH was a civilian vessel "mistaken as a threat"

edit on 16-7-2012 by followtheevidence because: (no reason given)

OH i dont know... perhaps the USS cole being hit by a civilian boat might have had something to do with it. The US navy has fired on multiple nations boats that ignored warning to heave to. As well as other nations have done the same as well. Some civilian vessels hide alot of firepower. Like drug cartel boats at times.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by murch

 

Last I checked, the Persian Gulf belonged to the Persians, or Iranians....US should calm it's tits for a bit and mind it's own business.

Sigh.. The nations around the gulf each own a part of it. The shah of Iran even sold parts of it to other nations as well. SO even if it WAS originally owned by persia its not now according to international teaties and deals.

They warned them several times and professional captains know they are not supposed to approach Naval ships. They view it as a threat to their security.

Actually 4 countries claim water in the gulf. Get a map. And the center strip of it has been international waters for years. Really guys I do believe my country has gone off the deep end but your false propaganda makes you no better.

Yes bullets can ricochet off water, I have actually seen it. Warning shots are placed over a ship not in front for this very reason.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by WorkingClassMan

 

There's no way they were 7km away if they were hit by 50 cal fire. As for the warning lights, and radio, there are no reports of any other vessels in the area that I have seen yet. So who else would they have been talking to? They generally flash the searchlight directly across your vessel when they flash it at you. They do everything possible to make sure that you know they are talking to you, and you are doing something stupid.

But I guess since it's the US Navy involved, then they must be in the wrong huh.

No need for arrogance or ignorance mate!

Would you like to re read my post or posts again or just carry on as you were (No need for arrogance or ignorance mate!).

I'm not familiar with the armament of this type of ship but just to prove a point I could hit you from 40Km away with the right 50cal. I doubt this boat is carrying those guns but I could still take you out at 2km+.

Whats the exclusion zone from a US navy boat again? It's greater than 2km right?

What sort of damage does a volley of shots from a 50 (how many they fire?) do to a 30ft fiberglass boat?
Answer to that should tell you that either this boat was a long way off or the guy doing the shooting needs replacing before a real threat comes their way.
They didn't even neutralise the boat it turned around and went home, and if the US is letting rip with a 50 I would like to hope they were a fair way of shore, so it didn't just go home it went a loooooooooong way home.

Were they required to have their radio on, do they speak English?
Do naval vessels never use light signals to communicate to people on land of other boats that might not be seen with naked eye that's not even looking for them.
If they blind you with a dirty great big search light and deafen you with a PA system yelling stop, then I would consider that a warning (as I previously stated & u ignored)
I highly doubt these guys in their fancy boat had a ship flashing lights at them and letting of 50calibre warning shots & still carried on towards them.

More likely my first theory someone deliberately or not messed up their warning shots or panicked and thought they were under attack when some guys out for fun went to overtake their slow driving miss Daisey arse.
Without all the facts that is the most logical conclusion so far. That US forces acted by the book with due diligence and are providing 100% truth is a lot less of a logical conclusion to draw.


But I guess since it's the US forces involved, then they must be in the right huh. Maybe in your eye I would rather stay neutral and deal in facts not blind devotion.

How about I have a naval vessel which looks like a simple transport ship to any regular person sitting of the Florida keys and when any of your spring break kids try to go round me in dads borrowed boat I take them out from 2km away. Of Course I will broadcast over the radio in Arabic first to let them know they are about to die, not my fault if they don't speak languages not native to them, not my fault I'm thousands of km away from home pissing in someone else's pool.
Not my fault they hadn't entered an exclusion zone yet. Just as long as I view them as a treat.

Why is it Americans always go on the defensive instead of looking at facts and answering questions.

Originally posted by MansPlaceNow
Actually 4 countries claim water in the gulf. Get a map. And the center strip of it has been international waters for years. Really guys I do believe my country has gone off the deep end but your false propaganda makes you no better.

OK. The point i responded to was that Iran had sole ownership of the persian gulf. And of those 4 countries they all ring the persian gulf correct? SO where am I wrong?

Oh and do you watch mythbusters? a high velocity round liek a 50 cal will break up hitting water. a lower speed bullet can richochet though. A 50 cal would have to hit at a different angle than what was coming off that ship to richochet.

reply to post by yuppa


50 cal will ricochet off water. It is common to see when the coast guard fires at drug boats.

Watch this video at about 1:30 to see a significant amount of ricochets. You hear the gun fire, see the splashes of bullets, and then a moment later see the secondary splashes from the ricochets.

Originally posted by WorkingClassMan
Why is it Americans always go on the defensive instead of looking at facts and answering questions.

edit on 17-7-2012 by WorkingClassMan because: (no reason given)

Because at 530am, stuck in a crappy hotel far from home, with a room mate I met a week ago, who left his alarm blaring since 445am, I'm not at my best.

Originally posted by WorkingClassMan


Why is it Americans always go on the defensive instead of looking at facts and answering questions.

I guess, always being blamed for # and not the real puppet masters will do that to you.