Democrats threaten to go over ‘fiscal cliff’ if GOP fails to raise taxes

The biggest economic boon the US had was under the Clinton Adminstration when corporate taxes were the highest.

Originally posted by seaside sky
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

Really.

Well, if you and I ever got a chance, we could probably knock the federal bureaucracy down to the size of a mall kiosk, and there'd be improvement all around.

Doubt they'd let us, though, so all we can do is watch in horror and disgust.

Please show me any nation on earth with a small government.

In turn, I will show you a disastrous 3rd world nation where your finger is at.

Go on...
Somolia? They have almost no functioning government at all..a dream for conservatives, right?
Come on now...start naming places that are fantastic bastions of conservative principles with prosperity...

I will be waiting over there...growing old..while you ignore the challenge due to reality clashing with your chances of making a valid point.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Decentralized government-- it's what the Constitution is all about. Local accountability for matters of local concern. It works pretty well when it's allowed to.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
The biggest economic boon the US had was under the Clinton Adminstration when corporate taxes were the highest.

One reason was because in order for the rich to avoid big taxes, they reinvested profits..which meant expansion, more jobs, etc.

The second you give the incentive for the rich to cash out..they will...and when they cash out (by lowering their taxes), the economy will suffer.
This is some very simple principles that conservatives don't understand..removing money from the economy and putting it into offshore acccounts and banks makes the economy hurt..

It simply is too complex for them to understand it. When rich people have to pay more taxes, they hold their money up in the economy verses under their mattress..its a win/win.

They want to be known as the job creators..fine..then lets see when they create jobs...right..through expansion and investment...so lets give the job creators the best environment demonstrated to create jobs...raise their taxes by double what the ending of the tax stimulus will do naturally

Originally posted by seaside sky
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Decentralized government-- it's what the Constitution is all about. Local accountability for matters of local concern. It works pretty well when it's allowed to.

Abraham Lincoln disagrees.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
The biggest economic boon the US had was under the Clinton Adminstration when corporate taxes were the highest.

And it seems the recent/current worst economic "boondoggle" was under the same corporate tax rates !!

What you need to look at is the "allowed" tax deductions and see if a pattern exists.


year / rate / bracket
1993 / 35% / 18,333,333
ditto all the way through
2010 / 35% / 18,333,333

source

reply to post by SaturnFX


And you and I are not so far apart on what we want, you know, we just have different views on how to achieve it.

I am NO FRIEND to huge destructive corporate predators. This is one of the reasons the federal agencies work as badly as they do and why they should be abolished. The federal agencies have permanent relationships with these corporations and so tend to protect them more than they should, to the detriment of the people, the environment, etc.

Decentralized authorities are harder for the major corporations to control. The more local the authority, the more responsive it is likely to be, and more accountable to the people. The big federal alphabet soup agencies are simply monuments to how much people pretend to care about something without caring enough to take any responsibility.

I get it. The Democrats are bad and the Republicans are good.

I will spare the others lots of mud slinging and just say that saying your side is the best because of one incident and disregarding all the negatives associated with your party is insane.

I have had it with useless blather about partisan politics. My side is better than your side. What BS.

I only know of a couple people I would want to stay in politics at the Federal level. That is not all Republicans and no Democrats, but all of both except for a couple individuals.

How can a sane person make a sane argument for keeping the status quo? By disregarding all the negatives from their own party and accentuating all the negatives from the other one.

Originally posted by seaside sky
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

And you and I are not so far apart on what we want, you know, we just have different views on how to achieve it.

I am NO FRIEND to huge destructive corporate predators. This is one of the reasons the federal agencies work as badly as they do and why they should be abolished. The federal agencies have permanent relationships with these corporations and so tend to protect them more than they should, to the detriment of the people, the environment, etc.

Corporations are passionless machines that has a focus simply to make as much money as possible for their investors. removing rules that allow them to maximize profit while minimizing risk is their priority. destruction of environmental restraints, no tariffs, removing jobs locally to hire slaves in china for manufacturing, etc etc etc..whereas a company is a heart of american industry, a corporation is a heart attack and is behind the most ruthless and horrific parts of our political system

30 lobbiest per congressmen...

What I see is that the right wing has been far, far more compromised by the corporate agenda than the left wing. Hense why I am on the left...I see them almost completely bought off by the worst of society and their ideas from the 19th century will only convert this nation deeper into a industrious 3rd world nation all for the bending of the knee at the megacorps.

Both sides are compromised mind you, but when the left is seen as compromised, it becomes scandal..it becomes a huge mess..when the right is seen as compromised...they are given extra privilege..its expected from the right..and that is the biggest insult you could give a career politician.


One thing to consider though
Rmoney's campaign is propped up by a select few millionaires and billionaires...the Obama campaign has those also, but far, far less, and instead bank with a ton of individual small donations...who is more compromised to cater to a specific few?

reply to post by SaturnFX


Excuse me-- are you confusing me with a right-wing Romney supporter? I don't play the red blue game, sorry.

Originally posted by onecraftydude
I have had it with useless blather about partisan politics. My side is better than your side. What BS.

I only know of a couple people I would want to stay in politics at the Federal level. That is not all Republicans and no Democrats, but all of both except for a couple individuals.

You know how I found out I was a liberal? quite amusing really.
I used to not even know what one stood for or the other..but I was familiar with issues.
Environment, economic principles (where did my job go?!), technological innovation, and a few others that directly effected my life and well being.
I made my understandings not on any politicians words, but on the actual sciences behind each field respectively. I never had to have a politician explain to me the environmental sciences..I listened to environmental scientists..same with technological innovation, etc.

When I came up with my conclusions, I found out (was told) I am a liberal...then was accused of being swayed by various politicians I never even heard of. lol.

I have tried to get the counterpoint to my understandings based on the actual sound hard facts, and all I ever got was..idealism...lies..distortions.
There is still part of me that thinks all you have to do is educate the social conservatives and they will realize they simply were echoing non-scientific things...that they didn't see the extensive studies or the historical precidence, the real world examples, etc..

But as I get older, I realize they aren't looking for truth, they are looking for a team to cheer on. I honestly don't understand many of them, and the thing is, they don't really understand themselves either I think.

Originally posted by seaside sky
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Excuse me-- are you confusing me with a right-wing Romney supporter? I don't play the red blue game, sorry.

Game or not, there is a choice coming up and a significant difference in stances (regardless of what some say, there is a big difference).

I used to not play the red/blue game either (I am pro-guns, therefore I actually thought I was a conservative if anything). But then I realized...I am, because I have an opinion..an opinion based in facts, but a opinion nonetheless.

reply to post by grey580


Nice work there Grey580! It is a good feeling to know that at least some of you understand
the numbers and what the trends of the last decade have done to the fiscal health of The United
States of America. There is a book called "Endgame" by John Mauldin and Jonathan Tepper.
Copyright 2011, published by John Wiley & Sons. I am certain you will find it clear and imformative.
Maybe you have read it already? Either way, all the charts and data are there for all of ATS to ponder.
Solutions are plotted as well. Star to your reply to this thread.

reply to post by SaturnFX


We do agree on a few things- I also support gun rights and I also base my opinions on facts. I have many views- some could be considered "liberal" and others "conservative" depending on whose throwing the terms around.

Where we differ is that I do not believe the two parties are significantly different in any ways beyond a good cop-bad cop puppet show. It detracts from the core subjects of debate. That's why I took some issue with you when you tried to score a win by lumping me into a cariacuture label. That's what keeps us all divided and fighting amongst ourselves. When we can put those labels aside and talk about the real issues and our values, we find we have a lot in common.

I'm not easy to categorize- and it seems you aren't either. We are not cartoons or animated planks in a political platform.

So let's be human.

reply to post by MrXYZ

If by "getting along just fine" you mean everyone just dumped their toxic waste into rivers...yup

What...it's not like we had rivers starting on fire or anything in the 1960s.

Oh wait...yeah we did... en.wikipedia.org...


But they are probably right...things were just "fine".

How come you never hear:

"We're going over a fiscal cliff if we don't stop spending."

Never anything about cutting back spending, just about give us more money! More money!!

Originally posted by mwood
How come you never hear:

"We're going over a fiscal cliff if we don't stop spending."

Never anything about cutting back spending, just about give us more money! More money!!

They haven't said it but Paul Krugman has.

A trip down the old Paul Krugman Turnpike runs right into Death Panels and

the nationwide Value Added Tax.

-----------
Cut spending???.................dream on!

Spend baby spend !!!

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Stop with the fear. ( Nancy Pelosis favorite tool)

We have the technology to dispose of our toxic waste in a safe way. Stop jumping

to the worst case scenario.

You suggest Nancy Pelosi uses fear? Well, see, this is called using facts...if Nancy is using facts, then I would say she is correct..and if a biproduct is fear of what simpy is, then thats what it is.

Your such a drone...so, with the fact that lowering EPA power = toxic mess..should we what...be happy? think its a fantastic idea? The facts are in stone...they are are what they are...its gravity..dropping a ball will make it fall to the earth..saying gravity exists is not using fear, its using facts

The technology is expensive..much cheaper to simply dump into low environmental protection areas, as demonstrated with reality.

Listen to yourself..just literally read what your writing.
Your saying ignore evidence (massive mountains of evidence), and instead destroy the protection we have and just...trust...corporate interests to..not make a buck but instead be responsible and caring verses do what they have done over and over everywhere they can.

I am thinking you can't even believe what your saying...its like some colbert parody your doing to show how just stupidly simpleminded the right is being here...I take that back..simple minded people have more sense than this..

Gov. Sarah Palin says Nancy Pelosi is a dingbat.

Everyone agrees with her.

If you were smart, you would replace Pelosi with Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
The biggest economic boon the US had was under the Clinton Adminstration when corporate taxes were the highest.

FALLACY! You fail to see cause and effect. Under Clinton you had an ARTIFICIAL housing boom which later busted. Under Clinton you had the repeal of Glass-Stegall which saw UNPRECEDENTED investment into the private sector by banks - which has led to one economic catastrophe after another and we're nowhere near the end yet! Wait until derivatives start to collapse... all $90 trillion of them!

If you are advocating for fake economic booms hidden behind central banking manipulation, economic bubbles and illegal investments, then you can count me out!

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

If by "getting along just fine" you mean everyone just dumped their toxic waste into rivers...yup

What...it's not like we had rivers starting on fire or anything in the 1960s.

Oh wait...yeah we did... en.wikipedia.org...


But they are probably right...things were just "fine".

Well, things were fine..just choose not to be poor or middle class! Shesh..doesn't everyone own an island?