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Italian court officially recognizes vaccines cause autism.

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posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 11:32 AM
reply to post by FissionSurplus

Fission, another fine post

I agree with everything you said, including sounding like a mouth piece for big pharma. I made a simple spellng mistake in his/her name and I was dismissed as irellevant and my question avoided, a tactic that we all know is used by those who are paid.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 11:56 AM
I'm in the UK, as far as i'm aware our vaccines do not have mecury in them , and have not for many years, in fact a derivitive from egg whites is used in its place.
In 2008 my healthy/social/chatty 18 month boy was given his vaccine, within a month he had stopped talking, stopped eye contact, naturally we were worried and contacted a health proffesional, within 6 months we had a diagnosis of Autism. At nearly 6 years old we still haven't had a word out of him.
I gave my 3rd child his MMR he's normal happy and healthy, i only gave him the shots because i did'nt want to lose another child to anything, and believe that its a combination of factors triggered by the MMR that causes Autism, not the vaccine alone and that the risk was too small to strike twice.

In reply to an earlier poster stating that children are born with Autism, I asked one of the doctors that saw my son what name was given to his condition, this was after seeing an american documentry on an american woman that had 5-6 asd children, all of which had different condition names, he replied that my son had Regressive Autism, due to the fact that it was not present at birth but developed at a latter stage, which i thought was very handy considering the rumpus at the time concerning the MMR and Autism links.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:00 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:09 PM
reply to post by BeReasonable

Just because your children are fine doesn't dispute the claim. I have never seen a platypus but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

It just means your children didn't have a reaction.

I have personally met several people whose children had severe reactions to the MMR. And since doctors won't make a link between the reaction and the vaccine, the severe reactions go un reported.

I have also met vaccine developers, pathologists, who imply that not all of them work.

The chicken pox vaccine is a perfect example of how they release vaccines without knowing their full effects and capabilities, or lack thereof.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:11 PM
reply to post by Flavian

You are comparing apples and oranges, because of the risks of the conditions that require the surgery. If my son has a heart defect that has a 60% chance of being fatal, I will weight THAT with the risk of surgery.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 12:34 PM
reply to post by Flavian

Why call me Flavon? That is clearly not my screen name and is therefore intentionally disrespectful to a fellow member. Can't be bothered if you want to go down that road.

I am truly sorry for not reading your name correctly (I wasn't wearing my glasses). Please accept my sincere apology and do not let that prevent us from having an intelligent discussion on the matter. It certainly wasn't my intention, and I will make sure I am more careful to double-check the spelling of names in the future.

Can't be bothered if you want to go down that road.

As I said, it was not intentional. Do not use this error on my part to excuse yourself from sharing with us your educational background and research that makes you a step above the rest of us in this topic of discussion, thank you.
edit on 17-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:02 PM

This longitudinal, case-control pilot study examined amygdala growth in rhesus macaque infants receiving the complete US childhood vaccine schedule (1994-1999). Longitudinal structural and functional neuroimaging was undertaken to examine central effects of the vaccine regimen on the developing brain. Vaccine-exposed and saline-injected control infants underwent MRI and PET imaging at approximately 4 and 6 months of age, representing two specific timeframes within the vaccination schedule. Volumetric analyses showed that exposed animals did not undergo the maturational changes over time in amygdala volume that was observed in unexposed animals.

Pilot study of pediatric vaccination on brain development

Aluminum is an experimentally demonstrated neurotoxin and the most commonly used vaccine adjuvant. Despite almost 90 years of widespread use of aluminum adjuvants, medical science's understanding about their mechanisms of action is still remarkably poor. There is also a concerning scarcity of data on toxicology and pharmacokinetics of these compounds. In spite of this, the notion that aluminum in vaccines is safe appears to be widely accepted. Experimental research, however, clearly shows that aluminum adjuvants have a potential to induce serious immunological disorders in humans. In particular, aluminum in adjuvant form carries a risk for autoimmunity, long-term brain inflammation and associated neurological complications and may thus have profound and widespread adverse health consequences. In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community. We hope that the present paper will provide a framework for a much needed and long overdue assessment of this highly contentious medical issue.

aluminum adjuvant carries effects

Now, in a new study from the University of Missouri, one researcher has found an explanation for that poor response. In the study, the MU scientist found evidence that the immune systems of newborns might require some time after birth to mature to a point where the benefits of vaccines can be fully realized. Habib Zaghouani, a professor of molecular microbiology and immunology and child health at the MU School of Medicine, recently found that a slowly maturing component of the immune system might explain why newborns contract infections easily. In his work, Zaghouani studied newborn mice and how their immune systems reacted when they were repeatedly exposed to an antigen that simulates a virus.

poor infant immune response to vaccines

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:07 PM
reply to post by thebtheb

It does to me, thanks for the reminder!

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:13 PM
reply to post by Flavian


I keep reading your many posts in this thread making many statements as fact yet, I have not once have I seen you write anything to support your statements or even anything to indicate that you even have any knowledge in the medical field (I also notice "the professional" hunnybunny has disappeared before posting her credentials) or this issue. I have asked you some pretty direct questions, please respond.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:27 PM
reply to post by nixie_nox

In our opinion, the possibility that vaccine benefits may have been overrated and the risk of potential adverse effects underestimated, has not been rigorously evaluated in the medical and scientific community.

Thanks, I would only add that there has been rigorous efforts to prevent any contrary research from being accepted in the medical and scientific community. There certainly will not be any grants awarded for research that doesn't give the results the guarantor desires.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 01:55 PM
I can't be sure that vaccinations are 100% responsible for Autism -- but I have a hard time accepting the blanket statements of people who ridicule "anti vaxers" and call their precautions child abuse.

While SOME vaccines work -- some have not been proven effective, like Flu vaccines.

Anecdotally, my own son seemed set for speaking until he got an MMR shot, and then after that it took him a full year after that to start speaking with effort and we worriedly had his ears checked and did testing. It was like a light switched off in him -- the next day, he wasn't the same kid.

>> I'm glad this study is looking at the influence of the stomach on the brain. Stomach bacteria are responsible for pheromones and a good deal of the neurotransmitters (note that lack of Serotonin goes with sleeplessness and eating disorders - 80% of this neurotransmitter resides in your GI track).

I also think we could DELAY a lot of immunizations for kids as they don't often have a lot of interactions with other kids until around the age of 3. When a kid is taking an immunization -- there are a lot of toxic products in it called "adjutants" and these are used to get an immune response. So the immune system then raises an alarm and starts noticing this foreign Mumps gene -- but what is to say that the immune system didn't also decide that the first time your son ate peas or peanuts, or had a large dose of Dopamine that it didn't start targeting that?

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:02 PM
I mentioned this thread to the Mrs, who came up with a good point.

If your kid gets autism from a mmr, that's it, there's no way back, though the chances are, that measles, mumps or rubella won't do anything long term to them.
She said that it would be like losing your child, cos their personality would be gone, replaced by something else.
A pretty good observation I thought.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:06 PM

Originally posted by mandrake
I find it extremely hard to believe a "doctor" who has his own domain name, especially when googling his name results in various websites calling fraud and quackery. There is an entire section on his website that is dedicated to selling "alternative products" from shower gel to air purifiers. Seriously, is this the kind of person people believe in now.

As for the case in question, there is no way of proving cause and effect from a single case, period.

He has his own domain name because he's very into the Internet. He puts out tons of videos on health for free. He sells products too - so what? Why should I trust any doctor who anyone goes to who overcharges and is involved in the health INDUSTRY, that's right industry, a money making, for profit INDUSTRY.

Back to Dr. Mercola, he is a fully trained physician who practiced for about 5 years in the traditional way, and was fine with it when he started. He soon discovered that he thought a lot of it was pretty crazy and that health had more to it than treating problems with drugs. So now he's dedicated his life to helping people with health creation and disease prevention. He doesn't even say in the article that ALL vaccines are bad. He says that everyone should be aware of all the information and make an informed choice.

The quack sites that list him - really? Those same sites list ANY, and I mean ANY alternative medicine from chiropractic to herbs to vitamins as quackery. is actually written by someone with admitted ties to the FDA. Gotta think a little here.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:12 PM

Originally posted by InfiniteConsciousness
Regarding India and other third world countries that have outbreaks of these diseases...

Look at their living conditions. Much of the country live in squalor, dig through trash dumps for food or other items with feral animals alongside them...

Poverty is the real culprit of disease outbreaks. Poor diets, poor living conditions and poor health...

If India and other 3rd world countries improve their living conditions, my money would be on a serious drop in disease incidents and outbreaks. But, until then, I guess vaccines are their only refuge...

Bill Gates has said some things that really bother me. Particularly about his "reducing the population by 10-15% with vaccines and reproductive health services" commentary. AFAIAC his philanthropy is tainted until he makes it very clear what he means with his comments and what type of evidence he has to back up his claims.

I agree with everything you say, especially in your other post above this one, but the thing about Bill Gates saying he wanted to reduce the world population etc., etc., is something I think that has been taken out of context and misread completely. I think it was a poor choice of words when he included "vaccines" in that sentence. I do not think he meant that vaccines would kill people, so use them. He meant that reducing the world's population is probably a good idea, through better birth control. He may have used the word vaccines because there ARE methods of birth control that require a simple shot every 6 months.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:18 PM

Originally posted by six67seven
I think people must also keep in mind the political spectrum regarding big pharma, the FDA and the gov. There is a constant power struggle among these three that ultimately weakens the science of vaccines. This is because big pharma companies want to be the first company to develop the vaccine. They want the $$$. It's truly amazing the lack of knowledge being put forth as knowledge on both sides of the political spectrum. Politicians are not scientists, not physicians and they will say anything during an election year.

And the drug companies and their CEOs are driven by profits. They would like us all to think they care more about saving children's lives, preventing cancers and other diseases. But this day and age, that is just a by-product. How can we really trust CEOs? Look at all the drugs pushed through over the decades that get recalled. Many pharmaceutical companies get fined all the time for Billions of dollars for fixing research.

Are we really to trust these three entities? Are we really to trust the 'sceince'? It's hard enough to find factual science and know for certain that the research and science you find and read is factual. If these big drug companies fix their finding during the studies they conduct, how can they be fully trusted? They can't. And we already know we can't trust the government, nor politicians. That is the point of all of this.

What I find most amazing is that most of the people who say vaccines are safe are going on studies or more often pronouncements delivered by the FDA, or the drug companies, or the government. That's IT!. ALL the other studies published in medical journals, etc., etc., that don't GET ANY ATTENTION from the media or the FDA, government or pharma companies are just pushed to the side as if they don't exist. It blows my mind.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Flavian

Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
In essence, you're saying that, although your kid and the other kids are vaccinated, they are still in danger if there is one unvaccinated child among them. LOL! This invalidates the whole vaccine theory.

Hi fission.
Their new argument is now "Your unvaccinated child could pass a virus to a vaccinated child who might then take it home and infect a younger child not yet vaccinated"

This argument does not hold water at all.

If you think this doesn't hold water then sorry but you clearly do not understand the process of contagion.

Facepalm of epic proportions.

And you have still answered my query as to the fact that vaccinated people carry the virus they are vaccinated against and SHED it for 72 hours or up to two weeks after the vaccination. So then by your standards, they too should be quarantined from un-vaccinated people. Even if this were done, it could never be done in a way to guarantee that everyone else is safe.

Do you also have guidelines for WHEN everyone should get vaccinated? What if your kid gets vaccinated on October 1st, by my kid's appointment is for October 15th? Will you also sue me because my kid made your kid sick even though I intended to vaccinate my kid but couldn't get an appointment right away?

Holding no water = your arguments.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 03:33 PM

Originally posted by SprocketUK
I mentioned this thread to the Mrs, who came up with a good point.

If your kid gets autism from a mmr, that's it, there's no way back, though the chances are, that measles, mumps or rubella won't do anything long term to them.
She said that it would be like losing your child, cos their personality would be gone, replaced by something else.
A pretty good observation I thought.


I have a cousin that has autism. They said he got it when he got whooping cough, and the cough was so bad he didn't get enough oxygen to the brain. But that doesn't line up. He got the vaccine before hand and I think it was the damn vaccine! But this was decades ago, I was only a child and he was a baby, so I have no idea firsthand, and nobody seems to remember the details. But how many times have you seen whooping cough cause autism?! Especially when on oxygen already.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 04:23 PM
My uncle develops vaccines and studies them. He told us to never pass up a vaccination. Since we're family, he wouldn't knowingly endorse something harmful to us. So the vaccines that are messing with people must be contaminated or made by corrupt people. My uncle wouldn't tell us to get something that would hurt us.

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 04:48 PM

Originally posted by foxi1234
reply to post by TWILITE22

Spot on.....investigate yourself....don't believe what you are told and make your own mind up! I put my opinion on here and am shocked at the attacks by some of the members...

as you say...knowledge is power
the thing is everybody's different and I feel fortunate my kids didn't suffer the side effects of vaccines.I truley believe as a parent you have to decide whats best for you and your family you have to live with the decisions you make.In other word what I'm saying is if you decide not to vaccinate because of something said on the internet and your child gets severly ill or worst who will you blame?

Don't get me wrong I'm not an advocate of vaccines just based on the fact I don't trust what the government says is safe but I do believe everyone should do their own research and base their descision on that.

btw some of my opinions arn't always whats new?

posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 06:35 PM
Firstly, its an italian court. Not exactly known for its excellent decision making skills now is it.

Second of all, Governments cannot win. If the jab was withdrawn on the basis of the current information, and those diseases became prevalent once again, there would be some major kicking off being done by the public.

Thirdly, the jab is a choice. There obviously isn't enough evidence to say that theres a risk of autism (definately just wrote orgasm instead of autism first
), so if people are worried, get the separate jabs, or don't get them. The Government will not pin you and your baby down and forcibly inject it.

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