Consciousness Doesn't Exist.

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posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 07:23 PM
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This thread is quickly making me lose consciousness...

... but the OP is correct: consciousness is a state, an abstract noun.

So when Deepak Chopra talks of a "higher consciousness" he's making no sense.

How can someone be in a higher STATE of consciousness?!

One is either conscious or not. Period.




posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 


The individual ego-self might not "exist", but the Higher Self certainly does.

“Out of my experience, such as it is (and it is limited enough) one fixed conclusion dogmatically emerges, and that is this, that we with our lives are like islands in the sea, or like trees in the forest. The maple and the pine may whisper to each other with their leaves. . . .But the trees also commingle their roots in the darkness underground, and the islands also hang together through the ocean’s bottom. Just so there is a continuum of cosmic consciousness, against which our individuality builds but accidental fences, and into which our several minds plunge as into a mother-sea or reservoir.”

-William James, 1909



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
This thread is quickly making me lose consciousness...

... but the OP is correct: consciousness is a state, an abstract noun.

So when Deepak Chopra talks of a "higher consciousness" he's making no sense.

How can someone be in a higher STATE of consciousness?!

One is either conscious or not. Period.


Finally some common sense.

I realize the topic is boring, but I thank you for your input.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 09:27 PM
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Sorry, but this topic is full of major fail...


Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Yes. I am conscious. I exist, conscious is a word to describe my state of being. Words are marks on paper. Consciousness is an abstract word.


You just contradicted your entire topic on your third post.


If conscious is a word to describe your "state of being", then what is the name for your "state of being"?

Consciousness is the name of your state of being.

So, if you are in a "conscious state" like you claim, then consciousness DOES exist.

The End.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by FOXMULDER147
How can someone be in a higher STATE of consciousness?!

One is either conscious or not. Period.


There are multiple states of consciousness, just like there are multiples states of awareness. You can be unaware, half aware, fully aware, and several states in between those.

A "higher state of consciousness" is an idiom often describing an above normal level of awareness.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by senselessness
Sorry, but this topic is full of major fail...


Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Yes. I am conscious. I exist, conscious is a word to describe my state of being. Words are marks on paper. Consciousness is an abstract word.


You just debunked your entire topic on your third post.


If conscious is a word to describe your "state of being", then what is the name for your "state of being"?

Consciousness is the name of your state of being.

So, if you are in a conscious state like you claim, then consciousness DOES exist.

The End.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)


Very good. Stars for you. But I believe there's no contradiction in what I said. There is no such thing as consciousness. There are only real things in states of being conscious, no consciousness itself. There's no noun, only abstract nouns with little meaning, because there's nothing there for the words to symbolize or represent.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:14 PM
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I dreamt i was a sollipsist. I want to wake up now



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Very good. Stars for you. But I believe there's no contradiction in what I said. There is no such thing as consciousness. There are only real things in states of being conscious, no consciousness itself. There's no noun, only abstract nouns with little meaning, because there's nothing there for the words to symbolize or represent.


If you are in a conscious state, the name for that is "consciousness". So consciousness does exist.

Your only argument is that the word "consciousness" is claimed to be an abstract noun opposed to a concrete noun. Not even that is a solid fact....

grammar.yourdictionary.com...



You experience what concrete nouns name through your five senses: sight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch. If you cannot see, hear, taste, touch, or smell something, it is not a concrete noun.

...

Abstract nouns are like the opposite of concrete nouns. These are nouns that name things you cannot see, smell, taste, hear, or touch. They refer to emotions, ideas, concepts, tenets, beliefs, or your state of being.


Although consciousness is a name for a "state of being", and is often considered an "abstract" name/noun, consciousness can be experienced with the five senses by the conscious being itself.

The fact that you can see, hear, touch, smell, taste, and be aware of those five senses, and your self, means you are seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting your "consciousness".

So I can argue that consciousness is both an abstract AND concrete noun. The mere act of you seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, and being aware proves consciousness is a real thing.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Words are just squiggly lines as physical things. It is the conscious mind that appllies meaning to the squigly lines. These words mean nothing unless there is consciousness to decode the symbolic meaning.

"Blue" could mean whatever we want if there was a conscious decision and agreement to apply a different meaning.

Consciousness is non material.

Information is non material.

You cannot physically point to symbolic information unless it's is encoded in matter and understood by a conscious mind otherwise it is meaningless. Example - this entire thread and all of language itself.

You cannot physically point to consciousness unless it is embedded in a biological entity. Even then you cannot put a finger on where it physically exists because there is no physicality.

Consciousness relates directly to information. Consciousness is the experience of information. If you are literate and can determine meaning from the squigly lines that are written words then you are conscious therefore consciousness exists.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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Just try to maintain the thought and intention of pure love...it sounds fluffy and all but, it really can be that simple.

Of course, this is just my opinion.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by senselessness

Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Very good. Stars for you. But I believe there's no contradiction in what I said. There is no such thing as consciousness. There are only real things in states of being conscious, no consciousness itself. There's no noun, only abstract nouns with little meaning, because there's nothing there for the words to symbolize or represent.


If you are in a conscious state, the name for that is "consciousness". So consciousness does exist.

Your only argument is that the word "consciousness" is claimed to be an abstract noun opposed to a concrete noun. Not even that is a solid fact....

grammar.yourdictionary.com...



You experience what concrete nouns name through your five senses: sight, smell, hearing, taste, and touch. If you cannot see, hear, taste, touch, or smell something, it is not a concrete noun.

...

Abstract nouns are like the opposite of concrete nouns. These are nouns that name things you cannot see, smell, taste, hear, or touch. They refer to emotions, ideas, concepts, tenets, beliefs, or your state of being.


Although consciousness is a name for a "state of being", and is often considered an "abstract" name/noun, consciousness can be experienced with the five senses by the conscious being itself.

The fact that you can see, hear, touch, smell, taste, and be aware of those five senses, and your self, means you are seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting your "consciousness".

So I can argue that consciousness is both an abstract AND concrete noun. The mere act of you seeing, hearing, touching, smelling, tasting, and being aware proves consciousness is a real thing.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)


Very good line of thinking. Except the state of being is not what exists, only the being itself exists. Just because something is awake and aware of their surroundings, or conscious, doesn't mean consciousness itself is at play here. Being awake isn't a thing or an object. Just because something is blue, doesn't mean it exudes an actual thing called "blueness."



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Except the state of being is not what exists, only the being itself exists.


Incorrect. The state of being does exist within the being, and the being experiences it. If it didn't exist, then the being wouldn't be awake, aware, and experience the five senses, and be conscious.


Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Just because something is awake and aware of their surroundings, or conscious, doesn't mean consciousness itself is at play here.


I'm sorry but that is sort of a ridiculous thing to say...

"Consciousness" and being "conscious" are the same thing. They are just two different words designed to be used in different structures of sentences. One is an adjective used to help describe a type of conscious, and the other is a noun used to refer to a type of conscious.

"The man regained a conscious state."
"The man regained consciousness."

Both the above sentences have the same exact meaning, and are the same thing.


Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Being awake isn't a thing or an object.


Yes it is, it is life itself. It technically is ALL things and objects that you will ever experience when you are awake.


Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Just because something is blue, doesn't mean it exudes an actual thing called "blueness."


Bluness and blue are the same thing.... When you ask someone to point to "blueness" they point to things that are blue because they are the same thing. Blueness is a range of blue. A range of different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by senselessness

Incorrect. The state of being does exist within the being, and the being experiences it. If it didn't exist, then the being wouldn't be awake, aware, and experience the five senses, and be conscious.



Incorrect. If the being didn't exist, there would be nothing to be conscious. If the body didn't exist, the being wouldn't be awake, aware, and experience the five senses and be conscious. Consciousness—something you are arguing is a tangible and measurable thing or object—is not a real factor in something being awake or conscious, because it is a non-entity. The only real factor is the body being awake and conscious. The body itself is real, while there is no measurable, definable and observable thing called consciousness at play. I ask that you show me consciousness, you can only show me things that are conscious, not bodies full of something called consciousness. I ask you to show me forgetfulness, you can only show me things that are forgetful, not bodies full of something called forgetfulness.




I'm sorry but that is sort of a ridiculous thing to say...

"Consciousness" and being "conscious" are the same thing. They are just two different words designed to be used in different structures of sentences. One is an adjective used to help describe a type of conscious, and the other is a noun used to refer to a type of conscious.

"The man regained a conscious state."
"The man regained consciousness."

Both the above sentences have the same exact meaning, and are the same thing.

This is good logic, and these are the holes in this idea I'm looking for. Despite your condescending attitude, your insights are useful.

Nonetheless you cannot show me something called consciousness as if it existed, you can only show me things that are conscious or things that are awake. In your example, you assert the man regained consciousness, and that consciousness is a thing. The man appears conscious, so he must have some consciousness. But during this struggle to become awake, did he really gather something called consciousness? Or did he gather the necessary attributes to be classified as conscious?

I'm not sure how anyone can logically imagine a thing called consciousness, when there is nothing there, or nothing exuded or gathered or stored that would constitute a real tangible thing. Consciousness is an idea, a classification, a refinement of language which serves to speed up conveyance and understanding of a state of appearance. Not something that actually exists in the universe.




Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Being awake isn't a thing or an object.


Yes it is, it is life itself. It technically is ALL things and objects that you will ever experience when you are awake.


Then call it life, and not consciousness. Why call it something it isn't? Simple as that. Thats what I'm getting at. The word consciousness only further serves to mystify that which is self-evident.




Bluness and blue are the same thing.... When you ask someone to point to "blueness" they point to things that are blue because they are the same thing. Blueness is a range of blue. A range of different wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation.
edit on 15-7-2012 by senselessness because: (no reason given)


Blue is an adjective, a descriptive word used to modify an actual thing, a noun. Blueness is an abstract noun. Not the same thing. In fact, not a thing at all. Blueness is an abstract noun, insinuating something exists that is called blueness, when the only thing that exists are the things that appear blue, not blueness itself.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by TechUnique
Meh. Slightly pseudo in my opinion. Or shall we say speculative for want of a better word. I think this message is quite a bold generalization about something none of us know too much about.


But we do know a lot about consciousness. Why is it so hard for so many to grasp? Consciousness is not a thing that can function on its own. It's like saying that a thought has the ability to think - which, of course, makes no sense at all. A brain is a machine that can produce consciousness, but consciousness is not a machine that can produce consciousness. It's just nonsense.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 02:57 AM
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consciousness is easier to say than "a linear sense of self and surroundings within the constructs of this universe and how a seperation in the unification exists within ourselves and others"...however, we could make up a new word..I vote something with a P or a H if that is the choice.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 


These are the limits of your mind Champ, your talking semantics. What you may have a problem with is the way the English language defines a thing that is both intangible, but obviously there or we wouldn't be debating it.
None of us can prove it exists, we cant measure it, we cant see it. We cant pick it up and throw it. But something exists that helps us develop rational thoughts and ideas. Something is operating our brains at a higher level than a mechanical level. And they named it consciousness. So what?



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 04:04 AM
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Simply........

Consciousness is a state of self and awareness of existence thus exists while the self and awareness exist. When the self, awareness and life expires so does the consciousness that once was!!!



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 06:16 AM
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When you drive your car, you can control the car. You can turn corners , speed up, slow down. It also requires fuel and it requires an intelligence behind the wheel.
When you get out of the car, the intelligence has left the car. It doesn't move and yet it still has its fuel.
An important factor had left the car, you could say its consciousness, its operator.
When we die, our consciousness leaves our vehicle and goes on to do something else.
Pretty simple. That's my belief . We drive these vehicles until its time to replace them.
Meanwhile we learn lessons and get the opportunity to atone for past mistakes, we are all reincarnating and we all have our own purposes here.
We are our consciousness, the intelligence that drives the vehicle. Otherwise what is the purpose of life if not to learn and experience life in all its good and bad, up's and down's.
Common English cannot describe the essence of the soul in a mere word.
Peace



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 06:18 AM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 


I like this. Thanks for pointing out the fact that the English language doesn't serve our efforts to discern what is true versus what is irresponsible semantics very well. I can think of plenty other examples of faux-nouns with the same level of cultural impact.

The problem is that even dictionary.com... calls it a noun. Still, I get your point. It's not a being with self awareness.


con·scious·ness[kon-shuhs-nis]

noun

1. the state of being conscious; awareness of one's own existence, sensations, thoughts, surroundings, etc.
2. the thoughts and feelings, collectively, of an individual or of an aggregate of people: the moral consciousness of a nation.
3. full activity of the mind and senses, as in waking life: to regain consciousness after fainting.
4. awareness of something for what it is; internal knowledge: consciousness of wrongdoing.
5. concern, interest, or acute awareness: class consciousness.



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by TheSubversiveOne
 





Consciousness Doesn't Exist.




“I believe that ‘consciousness,’ when once it has evaporated to this estate of pure diaphaneity, is on the point of disappearing altogether. It is the name of a nonentity, and has no right to a place among first principles. Those who still cling to it are clinging to a mere echo, the faint rumor left behind by the disappearing ‘soul’ upon the air of philosophy.”


Who said conscious is conscious , it can be ignored , and in that time , you don't know if it is alive or dead or conscious.

+ the title of this thread is just a trick to get us into it. It is not related to how the OP started.

The OP is discussing details or name of conscious while it is believed that it exists.




‘Consciousness’ exists as an abstract noun—an idea or concept that doesn’t represent anything perceived, anything real, anything concrete or tangible, but merely something imagined.


seems much like the idea that "I should see god or he doesn't exist.

Abstracts come from what we perceive , whether seen or unseen . If that is mirrored from truth it exists and if it is mirrored from falsehood , it doesn't exist.

Conscious is something inside which knows facts and can not be played.

It just can be ignored.

Conscious is something void for unbelievers and it is everything they have for believers.

It is the face that can look at the creator.





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