Theory: Autism, simply a fault of perception and priority

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posted on Jul, 18 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

If the mirroring neurons fire when one self and others move imply that the brain classifies it as important and fires on that conclusion? In which case would make the movement of others unimportant as it does not fire in the autism context?
edit on 18-7-2012 by ShadowBase because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by R6A6W6
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


If you truly want to understand autism, ask someone who has some form of the disorder, as they will know more than anyone else.


I have family with autism, so I guess you just reaffirmed that I understand it. I didn't google autism and find some link, I googled mirror neurons specifically because I have actually researched autism. Instead of being a douche you could respond to what is wrong with the research I posted. You're welcome.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowBase
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

If the mirroring neurons fire when one self and others move imply that the brain classifies it as important and fires on that conclusion? In which case would make the movement of others unimportant as it does not fire in the autism context?
edit on 18-7-2012 by ShadowBase because: (no reason given)


We learn every day by watching others, especially in the social context. We learn how to behave by watching how those around us behave. Imagine if you took away the ability of a person to learn by watching others. Functional mirror neurons (named so because it allows us to "mirror" what we see), are crucial to this.

Those with autism do not have functional mirror neurons. I can watch you give a rose to a lady and see her smile light up her face and realize that I can make a girl smile by giving her a rose. Someone with autism sees this and can not make the connection. I can watch you jump rope and learn how to jump rope myself. Without mirror neurons this would not be possible. Those with autism struggle to learn by watching others and have to rely on their own actions.

Your hypothesis is not the cause of autism, it's the result of autism.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by ShadowBase
 


I think there's a stroke of genius in this OP. it could the vary nature of our world today - extreme competition, lack of compassion - that could be the underlying natural "cause and effect" that is causing ASD.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


There wasn't anything wrong with the article you posted. But as I said how do you know that only that article is right and all the other studies on autism are wrong. Besides that the op summed up everything with one theory.
Which I think is even more correct.

You say that people learn every day, the same is true for those with autism except that what they learn when put into practice will never come naturally. It will always seem like the autistic person is just trying to act normally. I do it myself all the time, I can act normal but its not natural and not necessarily what I want to do either. So in other words I can make my mirroring neurons fire but it is very hard and tiring work to do so all the time because I have to think very hard about it consciously.

With the flowers trick you talked about, if you show an autistic person often enough that giving flowers to someone makes them smile, the autistic person will realise that too, but it just wont end up being an unconscious realisation. It will only get recognition after a lot of hard work and thinking through logically.
edit on 20-7-2012 by R6A6W6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by R6A6W6
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


There wasn't anything wrong with the article you posted. But as I said how do you know that only that article is right and all the other studies on autism are wrong. Besides that the op summed up everything with one theory.
Which I think is even more correct.

What studies contradict the study I linked? The OP theory is reversed. What he sees is not what causes autism, but is a result of being autistic. His theory is a mind experiment, is contradicted by what we know of autism, and does not explain anything. It's a symptom, not the disease.


You say that people learn every day, the same is true for those with autism except that what they learn when put into practice will never come naturally. It will always seem like the autistic person is just trying to act normally. I do it myself all the time, I can act normal but its not natural and not necessarily what I want to do either. So in other words I can make my mirroring neurons fire but it is very hard and tiring work to do so all the time because I have to think very hard about it consciously.

If you have autism then you know people are not either autistic or not autistic, there are varying degrees. What you just said proved my article correct. Your mirror neurons are more functional than perhaps someone with more severe autism. Therefore you are able to learn from watching others to some degree, but it does NOT come naturally to you and requires a lot of focus and energy. Exactly what you would expect based on the research I linked.


With the flowers trick you talked about, if you show an autistic person often enough that giving flowers to someone makes them smile, the autistic person will realise that too, but it just wont end up being an unconscious realisation. It will only get recognition after a lot of hard work and thinking through logically.
edit on 20-7-2012 by R6A6W6 because: (no reason given)


Again you prove my article correct. Much like autism is not an on/off thing, mirror neuros are not on/off either. There are varying degrees of autism and so people with minor autism may have much more functional mirror cells. Someone who is a math genius may get a problem watching me do it once on the board. Someone else may not, but after enough times that aha moment will finally come. Same here. Everything you have posted is what you would expect if mirror neurons are part of Autism. By the way, I never stated, nor do I believe the link stated, mirror neurons are the ONLY cause and FULLY explain autism. It is definitely part of it though.



posted on Jul, 20 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


I did read the article you posted by the way and I agree with it to some extent. I just don't think its the one and only true cause, otherwise scientists would be hard at work on a cure for making mirror neurons fire properly.

Your evidence + the op's are almost the same in any case, except you think that mirror neurons are the cause and the op thinks that unconscious prioritising of issues are what cause the mirror neurons to appear to miss fire.

Also brain scans of people with autism would all show the same errors, which they don't seem to do. What they do seem to show is that it is a whole brain problem and not just one particular area of the brain. I have been researching autism since 2003 - 2004 when my son was diagnosed with the disorder. My diagnosis came a bit later after I had read all about the signs and symptoms.

Once again I'm not dismissing your article as proof. It has some good info in it but its just one view of the whole picture of autism.

Link to article on brain scans



Instead of being a douche


There is no need for name calling either? I didn't call you any names.
edit on 20-7-2012 by R6A6W6 because: (no reason given)


P.s I am just trying to follow the op, and talk on that topic and not trying to prove my own theory instead.
edit on 20-7-2012 by R6A6W6 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

The only thing that's known is that the neurons do not fire. So within this context, would it not be plausible that the question at this point would be; Is this caused by faulty mirror neurons or are they simply not being utilized?

My problem with most theories on autism is that they only explain certain parts of it. Autism is a complex concept and may very well be containing multiple parts known to science. Every cause is just another effect. If non-firing mirror neurons makes it hard to watch and learn one can't simply jump to a conclusion and blame faulty neurons. We will never get to the bottom if we pre-conclude every step on the way and wait 5 years before someone dares to challenge it. Scientists are to focused on having their theory being the ultimate explanation.
First it's faulty person, though, head, a specific cortex, signal, mirror neurons and then what? Problem is that they are probably all right but to no help for anybody.

That's why I chose to take a more practical approach and create a theory more focused on what's really happening in it's simplest form and at the end hopefully have a theory that actually can be utilized for more than a technical reference for medical technicians. Some of us actually have to live with it everyday from this point forward even while they continue research. Even those who wants to be cured needs situational overview.



posted on Jul, 21 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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Autism, it seems, is a catch-all, a scapegoat for many people and doctors. You get diagnosed with it, because you prioritize differently, learn differently, and act differently.
I've been called autistic many times, and at times I feel as if I am. Everyday, actually. I've never had the urge to go to a doctor to be "tested", simply because I do not care. Knowing if I am won't change anything in my life.

I still learn daily, due to my being a "lone-wolf". I read quite a bit, currently "Beyond Reason" - A.K. Dewdney.

I believe that autistic people have a brain "problem" that simply does not function as a normal persons. Perhaps they use more or less of their brain to process information that is needed for everyday use. Maybe they learn early on that personal communication with others is not necessarily needed to survive, (Which it's not). Communication to me, is used for spreading information and gathering information. And that's what I use it as. What I don't use it for, is for self-gratification. I don't need people to tell me what's wrong and what's right in my life. While useful, I for the most part already know most things they will tell me. I think about those things a lot, which gets me in "trouble" with my friends. At big outings, such as a bar, I just feel out of place. And I'll be with a group and they'll switch the conversation to what they think my flaws are, and I just leave.

Rambling now, but my point is that autistic people seem to have different lives because it's not the normal. It's not the gov't defined "normal". It's not the normal that you see when you interact with "normal" people. They seem to care about expanding their own life and knowledge, rather than experiencing certain things. But I, I like to experience things. Even with others, though I don't feel the need to actively talk about the experience.
It seems like the brain makes connections based on ones self, in regard to other people. They/we seem to focus more on the science and math side of life rather than going out and "making something of yourself".

Which is more vital? The guy who uses his life to study science, physics, math and logic and comes to a conclusion and makes new physics laws or creates new inventions that really advance the race, or the guy who everyone knows and likes and can throw good parties?

It's more like we are worried about the future of all as opposed to worrying about the now with a few people.





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