Survey: How Many Have Switched from Extraterrestrial Hypothesis to Interdimensional?

Originally posted by votan
Should we not first prove that other intelligent life exists before we begin to guess where they are are from??

Why do we want to speculate where they are from without even knowing if they truly exist??

Why make assumptions about an assumption?? Your gut feeling or your belief does not count as proof for ET life or interdimensional life.

this is just silly

That's the nature of reality. A person who truly believes is the one who learns through personal experience. If you are looking for tangible proof, seek the experience.

Originally posted by Erno86

Originally posted by g2v12
reply to post by The GUT

 

The disposition of the extraterrestrial question from the physical, nuts and bolts conception to one of mere ethereal dimensions, represents a common human thought filtering process that goes back to ancient religion and superstitions.

Amazingly, two physicists, Dr Allen J. Hynek and Jacques Fabrice Vallée were the progenitors of this modern form seemingly conceived of human religious doctrine, through which evidence has been laundered and adulterated.

The two actually worked together, even during Hyneks' tenure as head of Project Blue Book.

I honestly suspect their motives in producing such a fallacious connection with ambiguous human thought paradigms such as religion, mysticism and folklore.

But if its purpose was to misinform the general public, it certainly has done so, obviously at the behest of a government that holds certain hard evidence of extraterrestrial presence.

edit on 15-7-2012 by g2v12 because: grammer

g2v12 --- Some very good viewpoints, I can't agree with you more. You have brought some fresh air to ATS.

Gut --- Hynek has been a debunker from the start. He ruined his credibility on the subject of UFO's so much that everything he and Jacque Vallee said, will have to be taken with a grain of salt. As you probably know... I'm a nuts and bolts flying saucer believer from way back. A plasma shielded starship should be enough evidence that they do exist in our dimension, according to my own plasma shielded starship sighting --- and other's as well; including your own.

The feasability of interstellar travel in other dimensions is beyond my current comprehension at this moment. I have to believe in the quatum mechanics process of an interstellar starship, that should achieve super-luminal speeds in a photon powered saucer, that should make the human race strive for that design --- so we can reach the stars as well; besides our other-worldly friends.

Thanks for your confidence. I would agree with you in principle and in a literal sense.

In our galaxy there are planets lying in positions that make them older or younger than ours. If any of the older planets have intelligent life similar to ours, they could be millions of years ahead in terms of science and know how.

I believe in a cosmic correlation theory (CCT); that what happens on our planet is an example of what happens on other planets and the galaxy.

I think that one good example of this idea would be related to the rise of alpha species. On Earth we have Homo sapien as the dominating species. In CCT this would also occur on other planets. Civilizations from these planetary alpha societies would then venture into space, derive industries and begin to colonize. In doing so, they would inevitably find less developed planets and in some cases provide knowledge and material support. Civilizations which have the ability to do such things would become the alpha species of a galaxy.

I believe this is what we are dealing with on one level.

On another level, there may be other intelligences more difficult to define from the human, three dimensional perception.

Looking at the evidence from a two point perspective makes the process a bit more palatable.

Nevertheless, it wouldn't be prudent to allow such a rift to distract us from the critical nature of examining a universe with which we are more acquainted.

Originally posted by TheStev
I'm not sure why it's an 'either/or' choice for you. I understand that you don't preclude the existence of extraterrestrial intelligence, which suggests that you don't believe ETs are visiting Earth, and that what we are interpreting as ETs are actually IDs (I understand 'interdimensional' is a limited term with connotations but it will do for now).

Why is it not possible we are visited by both?

Of course it's possible or none of the above may apply. I guess the "secrecy" and lack of physical evidence is another aspect that makes me wary of the notion that we are being visited by corporeal beings from other planetary systems.

I'm just happy to see that so many folk are incorporating the IDH into their considerations. It's those that conceive both ETH and IDH that have made me think the most in this thread.

You make some great points, Stev, and another good read. Thanks for contributing.

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by The GUT

 

I have switched to the interdimensional hypothesis after doing a lot of research on the subject. The most convincing piece of evidence I found has to do with '___' and the pineal gland - Dr. Strassman, who did studies in the 1990's that involved injecting '___' into people's veins, discovered that they saw beings. I think '___' helps to see beyond our physical universe.

Hiya, darkbake, I enjoy your input around the boards. Glad to see you here. Yeah, I tend to believe that whatever the "veil" is that separates the hypothetical "dimension" between us and "them" probably has been faciltated in the way you mention. Meaning that more than hallucination sometimes occur in such experiences.

Although, some form of "hallucination" so to speak wouldn't necessarily mean that a real interaction between separate intelligences occurred.

In his book The Trickster and the Paranormal by George P. Hansen he draws some excellent parallels between the real and unreal and how liminality blurs the line between both. Very highly recommended read, btw.

In addition, I would like to add that if there are inter-dimensional beings, it is highly probable that they have something to do with religion.

At the very least, it would suggest that what has been interpreted as spiritual beings and experiences throughout recorded history begs a second look at our conception of spirituality. Peace, Bro!

More about George P. Hansen & The Trickster

When people refer to the “interdimensional hypothesis, do they mean:

1) Physical entity that visits from another spacial dimension or another “parallel universe”?
2) Non-physical entity (demons, angels, jinn, fairies, etc.) that resides in a spiritual non-physical “dimension” but interacts with experiencer through their mind?
3) Jungian “archtetype” which is basically a mental manifestation
4) Physical being “time travelling” from the future (our descendants)
5) Something else entirely?

I recognize that we aren't “all knowing” about the laws of the universe, but in my mind, many of the above hypothesis are very much pure speculation, given:

1) We don't know if other spacial dimensions exist or if they can independently sustain life
2) We don't know is other universes exist and if they do, how any physical entity could physically manifest here from there
3) We don't have any scientific confirmation that suggests the existence of non-physical “spiritual” entities
4) Time travel is probably impossible – if not, it creates many paradoxes

As much as there are some major impediments to inter-stellar travel, there is nothing to suggest it is physically impossible (discounting fanciful and speculative ideas like “warp drive” or “creating spacial wormholes”).

It is quite possible to travel between the stars although perhaps this would only be done by AI – due to time and energy constraints.

I do concede one possible “interdimensional” theory that is based on ETH. The idea that an advanced civilization may have developed a technology to communicate directly with our consciousness over space and time. Of course, no way of knowing if this is possible or violates laws of physics – but the same can be stated for all the interdimensional theories.

I should emphasize that although we do not have direct physical proof of “non-physical entities”, I do think it is wrong to rule out the possibililty that such entities might exists. I think science tends to shy away from any research into anomalies that are difficult to predict (UFOs fit into that scope).

So people do report all types of experiences that defy rational scientific explanation. I think that a lot of experiences which people relate to “UFOs” or “aliens” may represent a very wide spectrum of phenomena. Although I have my own personal reasons to believe the ETH explains some UFOs and “alien encounters”, I think that ETH probably only explains a tiny fraction of the UFO and “alien encounters” which people report.

We know that many UFO sightings are simple misinterpretations of common phenomena. And quite a large number of “alien encounters” are probably sleep paralysis or “vivid dreams”. But it could well be shown that there are other anomalies that represent unknown phenomena not studied by science.

I remember rehearsing one day up at our facility on the edge of the city set in the green fields of rural Warwickshire. The Bass Player's dog was doing his usual rounds of the grounds cocking his leg and making sure everyone was reminded about just who owned the property. See the hound has no concept, in his world, of money, title deeds, freehold leases, it's simple, he peed on it so ipso facto he owns. it.

As far as he was concerned the biped he "owns" has several friends who, for some unfathomable reason decided , on a regular basis, to stuff him into this moving box and the next thing he knew, he is let out to patrol his "land".

At the same time the local cat would trot round the same property and spray various parts of it to let everyone know that actually, they "owned" it and if that damned scruffy hound wants to argue about it then so be it, bring it on Fido. The cat would then retire to the substantial home it owned and allowed several strange smelling bipeds to share with it.

The Fox that had its' own trail across the same land really didn't give a fig about the cat or the dog so long as they realised that track was personal to them.

The Badgers with the set at the rear of the barn didn't really give two hoots over the ownership of their patch during the day time, but hey buster, when the sun sets, this place is ours you dig?

The Robin who owned the very same tract of land didn't really give a monkey's about the other flying mammals that inhabited their patch, but anything flying with a red breast was going find a whole can of whoop ass opened should they try to hang about.

The Kestrel that owned the same land didn't really take any notice of any of the other creatures but did find it fascinating that those weird dark straight lines with strange moving boxes on them did seem to supply a fine larder of its' prey.

Each of the "owners" could go months without even seeing a sign of each other, given their lifestyles were often based on a wholly different clock. In effect, they all share a single "universe" but wholly different "dimensions" of that "universe", each with a completely different view on what the reality of that same dimension actually constitutes. The dog with his acute sense of smell cannot fathom how the biped can miss all those tell tale signs that he actually owns it. The Kestrel has no understanding how their victims can;t see them coming given their eyesight is so keen.

Even the bipeds, who drive the strange metal cans around are mostly, completely unaware of the other challenges to their ownership believing, totally erroneously as it happens, that because they are who they are they must take precedence. You see , sadly, for all their learning and all their "intelligence and ability to solve complex problems both mentally and mechanically,. the huge majority of bipeds only actually see what they wish to see as their ego dictates that they are "always top of the food chain and in charge", no matter how much the evidence, to any impartial onlooker, says otherwise.

I always remind my students of this when we have a field trip to Sol 3.

Originally posted by wildtimes
The more that scientists and theorists find out about nano particles and subatomic workings...and the further into space, and even time manipulation we as a species are getting, it seems highly likely that we are just now finding out how we fit into the picture, and still have only a very rudimentary grip on the vastness of reality beyond our awareness.

I have had a few paranormal experiences. Enough to have convinced me that there is something beyond our "regular" perception. Fascinating.

I enjoyed your very literate post, wildtimes, muy gracias.

In reference your quote above, I do think it highlights the notion that "interdimensionality" transcends either science or philosophy alone.

I think both, hand in hand, have a much better chance than going it on their own.

reply to post by FireMoon

Yours has to be the Best answer yet, and I concur.

Sheesh the last 3 posts contributed by FireMoon, schuyler, and bluestreak53 should be required reading by anyone even considering discussing the topic.

If you missed them, go back! Word.


GUT salutes you!!

Part Two

I think many of this intuitively feel there is something “dimensional” about the issue. It’s just that we can neither articulate exactly what it is nor provide any sort of anchoring in a scientific context. So by refusing to dismiss science as we know it, thus negating the ET Theory, we have no way back into a scientifically valid theory. Our faith in science locks us out of science. As I said in the beginning, this puts us between a rock and a hard place. It’s an untenable position.

I’d like to address one issue that still keeps coming up, and that is the “They are more advanced then us” theory. This is essentially the “Warp Drive Theory.” It’s attractive, and as I said in my earlier post, allows us to fulfill our fantasies, but it is untenable. Einstein’s theory says it cannot be done, by anyone anywhere. It’s the law! It doesn’t matter how fancy your technology is if the structure of the Universe is such that FTL travel is impossible. Claiming that “they’re more advanced” is a plot device, not a scientific theory. No Scientific Rationalist would ever admit that the Laws of Physics can be broken. Once again, using this as an explanation is not an explanation at all. It puts us into the realm of speculation.

Now that we have no tenable theories at all to explain what we have observed in the way of UFO sightings I’m going to suggest a direction for a theory that cannot be proved. Some of you “really smart” people will do the usual face palm stunt because this theory runs counter to your worldview of how reality must be structured. To a Scientific Rationalist, the following simply cannot be. I understand the point of view. The Scientific Rationalist in me is what prevents me from accepting the ET Theory. Mathematically, you can’t get from “A” to “C” without going through “B.” FTL travel is not possible, therefore the ET Theory fails.

NOTICE: The material below is currently completely improvable in any rational sense of the term, at least today.

I’m calling this the Daemonic Hypothesis. Pay attention to the spelling. I don’t mean “demons.” I don’t mean “Jesus Saves.” I don’t mean ANY established religion, especially not Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. In fact, just to make things clear, I hereby declare myself an atheist in terms of the traditional concepts of deities. There is plenty of metaphor in traditional religion, but, no, it is not literally true—at least most of it.

A “daemon” in computer programming is a background process that “handles” a task without operator intervention. In classical mythology a daemon is a (usually) friendly sprite, not at all evil and even helpful at times. The point is that religions DO have a handle on the issue, but their interpretation of reality is completely bogus. Here they have been given a gift of knowledge that there IS something beyond the earthly realm and they have completely screwed it up with dogma that has completely distorted the issue.

In other words, we have seen the inter-dimensions we are seeking. We’ve been there. But our organized religions, though they’ve seen the shadows on the wall of Plato’s cave, have been “digging in the wrong place.” (Indiana Jones, “Raiders of the Lost Ark”) Remember “Flatland," the story of a three dimensional object passing through a two dimensional world? en.wikipedia.org... That’s the nature of our problem.

Draw a horizontal line. That is our world in three-dimensions. It includes Newtonian Mechanics, and it includes the Higgs Boson. We are, scientifically speaking, nailing that part down. That’s what the Standard Model of Particle Physics is all about—everything except gravity. Now draw a vertical line above the horizontal line. That’s where our “Inter-dimensions” are. As someone recently said, “If you want to know where the next world is (meaning the afterlife), it’s as close as your TV set.”

Now, what’s this all about? Well, it’s about reincarnation, souls, and an entirely different take on what life is all about. It affirms the paranormal, Near Death Experiences, and, in some sense, explains the yearning of humanity to turn to various religions that, in context, explain a lot. Whitley Strieber wrote “Majestic,” a very scary book, on this, but to him, ET is a bit evil.

The point is that this is the way around. This is the wormhole. Once you get there, the physics is different. ET has figured this out. This is the “Warp Drive moment.” And it’s not “religious.” It’s scientific. The two must merge for us to advance. There’s nothing “woo-woo” about this. It’s just as real as a hydrogen atom or a charmed quark.

Until we figure this out, we’re not going to advance.

We’ve been digging in the wrong place.

Originally posted by votan

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
The Universe is an extremely massive place, with many many possibilities, the question shouldn't be who has switched from Extraterrestrial to Interdimensional, the question should be what are the limits, if any, of a conscience being of any level in this Universe? Look at the whole picture and not parts of the picture. Chances are they both exist with others we haven't even dreamed to hypothesize yet.

With all those infinite possiblilities in this massive universe, we have not had one ET or Interdimensional being make itself known to us! Nor have we detect any of the unlimited lifeforms that could exist in this universe.

And for the sake of conversation lets say there are lifefroms and you cannot perceive them with your senses how do you even know they exist?? Is it based on faith alone or the assumption that because the universise is huge and probability says so there must be other intelligent life.

At the end of the day no matter how much you hypothesize it is not reality.

This doesn't mean that other intelligent life in Universe doesn't exist. In fact the odds for other intelligent life would be more common than NOT! My point was that life is far more complex then the Extraterristrial/ Interdimensional conversation.

Originally posted by The GUT
reply to post by g2v12

 

Science, these days, always forgets--to it's egg on the face chagrin--that it has a "Daddy." Philosophy that is, It's the Father of Science.

When one separates those two it really accounts to nothing more than throwing in the towel and admitting you--and perceiving that others--can never form any kind of personal conclusion beyond what little that science perceives itself to know. Ever-changing-it's-mind science that is. IMO, you don't become an adult until you are able to take the risk and finally form some personal conclusions.

What Science has virtually no answer for: Paradox, Infinity, and Consciousness. I think those are not only big issues, they are big clues to the nature of reality.

Science is, I admit, meagerly adept at some technological issues. But those generally turn into monetary profit, get co-opted by the gubmints, and are followed by death and destruction. Big deal and ho-hum.

So, maybe you shouldn't be so proud of your ignorance and wait for science to tell you what the truth is. You'll be waiting a long time. An Infinity's worth.

You are obviously hyper-intelligent. And I'm enjoying reading your posts. But, so far, you're not telling me anything new. Maybe, I'm not either, but remember; paradox, infinity, consciousness...and philosophy.

I appreciate your social demeanor as well as your thought process. Good forums like this one are worth their weight in gold for people who need interaction. I don't know how intelligent I am, but I am smart enough to know how ignorant I am. Woodrow Wilson said, “I not only use all the brains that I have, but all I can borrow.” That's a good enough reason to be here, wouldn't you agree?

Now you are striking a deep cord from within. I would express a general thought; Paradox, Infinity, and Consciousness, the holy trinity of the universe. Perhaps something that interacts with everything in the universe, like the Higgs/Boson sub-particle or a thing highly associated. There are forces yet to be discovered. One of them is the medium of thought.

Definitively, a medium of energy that is somehow perceived or which perceives us - but is for obvious reasons unseen. The reality of prime awareness is derived from five senses. We see and hear within narrow ranges of what really exists. We use instruments to see and hear more, which of course expands our awareness of the universe and provides new questions upon which to form theories. One is interdependent upon another, and so the cycle expands outward.

The CCT mentioned in another post does have its merits. One on hand, we have a solar system in which two planets are found within the habitable or Goldie Locks zone. On the outer perimeter, lay two planets of great mass that protect the inner orbit by attracting all manner of celestial objects, especially asteroids and other large rocks that could destroy the Earth. A similar planetary pattern has been found in about 14% of the hundreds of stars systems examined.

This could also apply to alpha civilizations, similar to Homo sapiens on Earth, which would be found on other planets. In the CCT this would expand out on a galactic scale, in which alpha groups (civilizations) from developed planets have already ventured into space. Others, like ours, are making preparations to do so.

But there is also something less tangible in terms of consciousness which you mentioned. It is as you said unexplored and impossible to detect or measure by current devices. For me, this is a most fascinating and quite over looked area of the overall ET jonrah.

I have seen various references in a number of books regarding what is described as spiritually advanced (benevolent) beings who communicate psychically with their subjects. These rare encounters are interpreted as spiritual experiences, some on a human religious paradigm of sorts. Though there may be such beings, they apparently don't appear in the vast majority of high strangeness events. Unfortunately, with the exception of Dr. Mack PhD., there hasn't been enough analysis in such cases to determine the perceptive nature of these occurrences.

For the past thirteen months I've been working closely with a man who claims to have had more than a decade of telepathic communication with physical human extraterrestrials of the Nordic type being. One of the most fascinating things about his story is a sophisticated communication system described as being both extremely unique in scientific terms and difficult to understand and explain.

reply to post by g2v12


(Continued from above post)

Accordingly they employ small implants that utilize brain chemistry to generate a tiny hydrogen bubble (electrolysis) through which a very low radio transmission can be sent and received through the natural wave form of sub-atomic particles composing the hydrogen atom. The implant also sends the raw data of the subjects’ thought waves (riding the quantum wave form of a hydrogen laden environment) into space. From there the transmission is deciphered or decoded by hyper sensitive radio equipment onboard high orbit satellites or space craft, where it can be accessed by authorized people. What has been described here is a system of telepathic communication on a quantum level.

In addition, a computerized system enhances the overall experience by a stimulus of the brain in the areas of vision, hearing and tactile senses. The described subject (Mathew) has found himself in holographic- three dimensional type scenarios with the ability to converse with the personas of other individuals whose implants are logged in to the program. He has described meetings in a conference room on a large science ship for example. The system allows all of the meeting participants to be in different places physically, while experiencing the scenario mentally, as if in person from their unique perspectives.

I can’t swear to the truthfulness of his story, but the detail with which this individual expresses himself is like nothing I have ever heard. I have a ream of information and would like to discuss some of it here for my own sake.

Originally posted by Druscilla
Until I've got one or both, or something altogether different, but similar in my big bit*'n butterfly net, under a microscope, at my place for tea, or somewhere, some when I can ask some rather pointed questions and get answers, I'm say'n NO to both. That 'no' is in the respect of any or either visiting, and flashing their bums at us from the sky for a laugh, or whatever it is 'they' do.

In the greater universe at large, I'm certain there's likely millions of intelligent technologically complex accomplished alien cultures zipping about.
Visiting here? I'm extremely doubtful.

I think that your last two sentences just do not fit so well together, mathematically. (See the Fermi Paradox and note his calculations. Or see this story: "If E.T. Exists, He's Avoiding Us, Cosmic Number-Crunchers Say." )

I do agree with your first sentence, that intelligent ET life exists and is zipping about. But I suspect that your 2nd sentence, doubting they'd be HERE, is less a result of logic / scientific rigor and more a result of you or your subconscious (rather wisely, in my opinion) not wanting to confront the truly profound and routinely underestimated philosophical ramifications of an ET presence near Earth.

But if we're being serious here, the "distance problem" is no significant barrier, and it hasn't been since Fermi... unless one assumes things he need not assume, e.g., that ET is flying 10,000 light years to get here each trip. Because the math, even at its most conservative, says 'they' should definitely be here by now if they exist. (That actual math deserves its own thread, actually, and perhaps a java applet that people could fiddle with....)

But anyway, here's a bit from the article I linked to:

"Even at the relatively sedate pace of 1 percent of light-speed, the aliens would arrive at their nearest neighbor star in about 500 years. (Light travels at about 186,000 miles per second.) Figure another 500 years to build new ships, set out again, and so on and so on, and the calculations show that civilizations starting out from the oldest stars in our galaxy would have had epochs of time to reach us by now. So where are they? ... Whatever the reason we're being ignored, there is no chance E.T., if he exists, does not know we are here, Hair said, pointing to telescopes, such as NASA's Kepler observatory, which can detect planets around other stars."

All of that, plus a tiny percentage of undeniably compelling UFO cases, leads me to conclude that 'they' are slowly getting us used to the idea....

Originally posted by g2v12
reply to post by g2v12

 

(Continued from above post)...

...I can’t swear to the truthfulness of his story, but the detail with which this individual expresses himself is like nothing I have ever heard. I have a ream of information and would like to discuss some of it here for my own sake.

PLEASE do.

I would, however, humbly suggest that both you and schuyler share the thoughts you've presented here in your own threads as well.

It's such intriguing material that it might get missed as this thread starts to lose steam and moves down the forum.

However, whatever y'all do, don't stop sharing here. I'm fascinated.

shuyler, might have already done a thread addressing his thoughts....I'll have to check his history.

More later as I absorb your posts and further elaboration.

Originally posted by schuyler
... Now that we have no tenable theories at all to explain what we have observed in the way of UFO sightings I’m going to suggest a direction for a theory that cannot be proved.

I like your ideas, the ones that followed that snippet, and I enjoy thinking along those lines.

I just want to reinforce once again that the ETH does not in any way require faster-than-light travel.

Fermi recognized this fact when he did his calculations and uttered the words that gave rise to his famous 'paradox'. Many other astronomers and mathematicians have recognized it as well. I'll try to compile a more complete and scholarly list when I have time, but for now, it's enough to note that the results found at this link are not so unique or unexpected.

Is Dr. Vallee a full-fledged "Initiate" in the "Mysteries?"

Magick 8-Ball Says: Yes!

More on that later if the concept develops any interest here and heads in a Quantam/Mystical direction.

In the meantime, for those that expressed the duality of holding both the ETH and the IDH simultaneously I present, below, the last entries in an intriguing interview with Jacques Valle originally published in the e-zine Sub Rosa.

The whole article is worth a read in my opinion. It would also not be wise though--and again in my opinion--to read it exactly as Vallee stating he holds both opinions himself…only that they are not necessarily contradictory.

SR: Astrobiologist David Grinspoon (in his book Lonely Planets) talked of the possibility that extraterrestrial civilisations far older than ours may have passed this 'singularity', and may have access to technologies beyond our imagining. Is this something that would fit into the Magonia hypothesis, in terms of interdimensional travel? Your writing would suggest not, that UFOs are related in some way to the human collective psyche, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

JV: There is no contradiction between the two. The concept of other dimensions and parallel universes is part of mainstream cosmology now. I just received in the mail the latest copy of New Scientist. The cover shows two figures climbing into a flying saucer with the caption: “Life inside a black hole – how is it for you?”

Besides, I believe that the human collective psyche has access to cosmic consciousness, and I have to assume many of the readers of a magazine called Sub Rosa entertain similar thoughts!
www.dailygrail.com...

Gut, I can't help but wonder why you and indeed everyone has ignored my post?

Personally, I think that a Jungian / parapsychological / mental monism approach is the only viable one and its perfectly compatible with a Hansen 'trickster archetype' (I've read his book btw) approach since the trickster is a Jungian archetype.

But whatever.

Originally posted by The GUT
Is Dr. Vallee a full-fledged "Initiate" in the "Mysteries?"

Magick 8-Ball Says: Yes!

More on that later if the concept develops any interest here and heads in a Quantam/Mystical direction.

In the meantime, for those that expressed the duality of holding both the ETH and the IDH simultaneously I present, below, the last entries in an intriguing interview with Jacques Valle originally published in the e-zine Sub Rosa.

The whole article is worth a read in my opinion. It would also not be wise though--and again in my opinion--to read it exactly as Vallee stating he holds both opinions himself…only that they are not necessarily contradictory.

SR: Astrobiologist David Grinspoon (in his book Lonely Planets) talked of the possibility that extraterrestrial civilisations far older than ours may have passed this 'singularity', and may have access to technologies beyond our imagining. Is this something that would fit into the Magonia hypothesis, in terms of interdimensional travel? Your writing would suggest not, that UFOs are related in some way to the human collective psyche, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

JV: There is no contradiction between the two. The concept of other dimensions and parallel universes is part of mainstream cosmology now. I just received in the mail the latest copy of New Scientist. The cover shows two figures climbing into a flying saucer with the caption: “Life inside a black hole – how is it for you?”

Besides, I believe that the human collective psyche has access to cosmic consciousness, and I have to assume many of the readers of a magazine called Sub Rosa entertain similar thoughts!
www.dailygrail.com...

This idea of a cosmic consciousness goes back a long way. Rhonda Byrd authored a book, The Secret, which chronicles the lives of several successful individuals and their personal views and explanations of how it works. I've found similar principles of utilizing this force in other places, like the teachings of Norman Vincent Peale and many like him.

Basically, it states that we are what we think. Our fears, thoughts and imagination is somehow perceived or recorded and then manifest through this universal medium.

I've seen examples of it in my own life by tracking my thought patterns and the results. There were some amazing correlations in fact. We definitely have access to it, even as individuals, and we can script the outcome of our circumstances by understanding that it allows us to have more control over our destiny through our thoughts, beliefs and desires.

What's more amazing is that it works without our permission. This means that people who don't know about it are often victimized in their ignorance by subconsciously manifesting negative circumstances.

Frankly, this is the number one belief in my life that gives me hope.

Originally posted by BlueMule
Gut, I can't help but wonder why you and indeed everyone has ignored my post?

Personally, I think that a Jungian / parapsychological / mental monism approach is the only viable one and its perfectly compatible with a Hansen 'trickster archetype' (I've read his book btw) approach since the trickster is a Jungian archetype.

But whatever.

Well, let's start with Jung; He's not the first, by a long-shot to refer to the Trickster, but I'm pretty sure you didn't mean to give that impression.

I went back and re-read your initial post (starred it, btw) to see why you felt ignored. Mainly because it's from an article by Dean Radin and supports IONS, neither of which I've ever found to be very interesting.

Not to say that your own viewpoint is invalid, but it seems to heavily embrace "archetypes" which I perceive as a small--if any--part of the overall picture. Although like "interdimensional" it is handy as a placeholder and could very-well have more significance than my mind can fathom.

Don't think I haven't noticed your contributions elsewhere on the board because I have. You're cool with me, but your own input here was somewhat brief and vague and the article from Radin was loooong and I wasn't motivated to comment on it. Fair enough?