Survey: How Many Have Switched from Extraterrestrial Hypothesis to Interdimensional?

Originally posted by schuyler
...We WERE discussing the differences between the hypotheses of ETH vs IDH. The basic idea is that the ETH, what I call the "Bludgeon our way through space" approach, has some real issues, perhaps unsurmountable ones, but at least we can "do the math" on it. The IDH solves the problem, but we don't know the math to it. It amounts to a semantic solution, kind of like Gravitic Drive. What the hell is that? We've all done this, cheated with semantics.

I want to know and understand WHY this works and HOW it works. I want to know how Reality is strung together to allow this to work. I want to know what the math is. Where is the science to all this? Where is the beef? You've not provided that (not that you are required to.)

It is a quandary. But is there any "evidence" to be found in the fact that it seems, so far, to be beyond mathematical fact?

I guess the argument can be made that our inability to mathematically define the mechanics works for both the ETH & the IDH, though. Granted.

What presents itself to me as a form of evidence, however, is the lack of physical evidence after all these years. Surely, that proposes that the ETH alone can't define the phenomenon?

It touches us, deeply so, and yet leaves no trace that it has ever been here. Other than a remarkable change in our sociological mind.

It seems they "choose" to be seen at times, and yet they easily remain--seemingly--ready, willing, and able to protect their anonymity.

I haven't found a "saucer crash" story yet that seems to have any legs or make any sense, and I know you don't buy them either. These things, whatever they are, don't crash...they wink in & out of existence at will and NEVER fail to mystify.

The Gut --- Since you are a proponent of the EDH, I was wondering if you were aware of the possibilities of multi-dimensions associated with the proponents of the string theory, that is, all sub-atomic particles a connected by some sort of string force; with as many as 16 different dimensions in our universe. I'm still not convinced about the string theory, yet it still intrigues me about all the mysterys still undiscovered in our universe.

Sorry --- double post.

Originally posted by Erno86
The Gut --- Since you are a proponent of the EDH, I was wondering if you were aware of the possibilities of multi-dimensions associated with the proponents of the string theory, that is, all sub-atomic particles a connected by some sort of string force; with as many as 16 different dimensions in our universe. I'm still not convinced about the string theory, yet it still intrigues me about all the mysterys still undiscovered in our universe.

Thanks. Erno. I'm familiar with the concept, it intrigues me, but grasping the "hows" and "whys" of that theory is hard for me to understand even though I whole-heartedly think they are on the right track.

It seems to me that when folk more knowledgable than I mention extra dimensions in conjuction with string theory they have stated that these "dimensions" would be too small to account for the ufo phenomenon??

How is that determined? I need String Theory for Dummies.

Originally posted by The GUT
How is that determined? I need String Theory for Dummies.

Umm. OK. Here it is: String Theory for Dummies.

reply to post by schuyler


Particles higher up the string have been theorized to be larger and more dispersed than our quantum particles. If this holds true, we'd expect to find larger organisms who are more fluid in their structure to be the norm for higher dimensional critters.

What if Escamilla's ships aren't ships at all, but higher dimensional organisms who wink in and out of our attenuated plane? These things are massive in scale, and yet display what could almost be termed an "organic" feel to their structure, ne?



What if the ones we encounter in the form of light balls and etc. are to ^them what we are to ameoba?

reply to post by Eidolon23


As I understand it, the "extra" dimensions in String Theory are extremely small. They aren't big enough to hold anything meaningful:

Extra dimensions

Another mathematical result of string theory is that the theory only makes sense in a world with more than three space dimensions! (Our universe has three dimensions of space — left/right, up/down, and front/back.) Two possible explanations currently exist for the location of the extra dimensions:

• The extra space dimensions (generally six of them) are curled up (compactified, in string theory terminology) to incredibly small sizes, so we never perceive them.

• We are stuck on a 3-dimensional brane, and the extra dimensions extend off of it and are inaccessible to us.

Source

If there is information that some of these dimensions are actually bigger, could you please cite a source? Thanks.

I wish I could fin on-line , the series where Ken Campbell, as a lay man, interviews and just generally chats with some of the leading edge mathematicians and the like. This is fairly brief however, even though it is, it does go some way to "explaining" where the philosophy of science is right now.

Here you go...the good old BBC...

A quick taster




30 mins of it here... www.flipbooth.com...

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

As I understand it, the "extra" dimensions in String Theory are extremely small. They aren't big enough to hold anything meaningful:

Extra dimensions

Another mathematical result of string theory is that the theory only makes sense in a world with more than three space dimensions! (Our universe has three dimensions of space — left/right, up/down, and front/back.) Two possible explanations currently exist for the location of the extra dimensions:

• The extra space dimensions (generally six of them) are curled up (compactified, in string theory terminology) to incredibly small sizes, so we never perceive them.

• We are stuck on a 3-dimensional brane, and the extra dimensions extend off of it and are inaccessible to us.

Source

If there is information that some of these dimensions are actually bigger, could you please cite a source? Thanks.

Thanks for the link, schuyler. I'm still reading, but a thought has hit me. The term "small" is relative.

Taking into account the many reports of ufos seemingly winking in & out of existence, lack of sonic boom, no proven trace cases, and some of the "plasma lifeforms" ideas we've discussed here: Whose to say that the hypothesized string dimensions, while small in comparison to our "3D" world, are too small for a phenomenon that seems unbound by any rules of mass?

Damn, ignore the 30 min link it's just the 2 min version again... anyway where we we? Oh yes, I was over ---------------------------------------------------------------------------) when Gut was looking at me and I was over ------------------------------------------------------------------------------) here when someone else was observing me, then again I was actually in both places at the same time, although in one parallel universe only one of you looking at me actually existed and in another one, neither of you were looknig at me cos, you don;t know I exist elsewhere, unless that is, I was to observe, somehow their universe then what would I look like to them?

Anyway lets try again here, well here as much as we can define here as a point in our time space continuum

Originally posted by schuyler
reply to post by Eidolon23

 

As I understand it, the "extra" dimensions in String Theory are extremely small. They aren't big enough to hold anything meaningful:

Extra dimensions

Another mathematical result of string theory is that the theory only makes sense in a world with more than three space dimensions! (Our universe has three dimensions of space — left/right, up/down, and front/back.) Two possible explanations currently exist for the location of the extra dimensions:

• The extra space dimensions (generally six of them) are curled up (compactified, in string theory terminology) to incredibly small sizes, so we never perceive them.

• We are stuck on a 3-dimensional brane, and the extra dimensions extend off of it and are inaccessible to us.

Source

If there is information that some of these dimensions are actually bigger, could you please cite a source? Thanks.

No, I am rather afraid that I can't.

I extrapolated that conclusion from the information about the theoretical nature of 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th dimensional particles being larger, more widely dispersed, and plasma-like in their physics. (That info is available in the wiki entry on String Theory.) One might expect the objects structured from such particles to be likewise vast.

ID makes sense

reply to post by schuyler

The only reason I can even post here is because...It is TRUE...you cannot differentiate between where Reality and Fantasy begin or end. Plus...as I have said before...EVERYTHING that I have said is either FACTS that can be looked up...such as my statements about the Washington DC Flyovers by Massive Numbers of UFO's.

Other statements...are of such information that has been already placed in the Public's Consciousness via various forms of Media as well as Direct Testimony of individuals who have stated they have either seen or experienced these forms of activity.

As far as there being a difference of where these supposed Alien Lifeforms come from or how they get here...Folding Space is INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVEL via creation of a SINGULARITY or ONE DIMENSIONALITY.

There is also the concept of E.T. traveling between MULTIVERSAL ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITIES wich are DIVERGENT CREATIONS of our UNIVERSAL REALITY. This is a VERY complex subject and I think you might want to look some of this up as there is only so much room on a page! LOL!

Regardless...I wish you luck in finding what you seek! Split Infinity

reply to post by The GUT

GUT...as I just posted...the best evidence that is both public and has Hundreds of Thousands of Witnesses...is the Washington DC UFO or E.T. Craft...FLYOVER of our Nations Capitol. This happened in the early 1950's and again in the early 1960's. All one has to do is look at the old DC Newspapers of the time as in the early 50's...the "AGENCY" that was being created had not yet established the proper protocols to deal with such a Massive Demonstration of E.T. existence.

The Newspapers of the time have interviews with High Ranking Military officials...Politicians, Civil Defense, Police and Fire Dept's, and one on one interviews with Air Force Generals who were being pressured by both the Public and Washington DC Politicians on why they were not able to secure the Nations Capitols Airspace.

This is the proof you need...and it is easy to find. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Wasn't thinks debunked as something else? Those UFOs above the Capitol?

Well... I think something more realistic that could have happened, it is told by Maximillien
who got ... weirdly interrupted (some say silenced?) had to close and denied all he said within the past hour

That these UFO's belong to the... NAZI. According to him and based on the case that the skull found after DNA analysis showed is not Hitler's and in fact belonged to a Russian female.., plus the COMMON SENSE of expecting everyone else to run away from the 3rd Reich and Hitler to shoot himself, I would say it is possible.

I mean, it looks like 'Hitler shot himself in his Bunker' is a complete utter disinformation and made sure it goes public since all textbooks of today write so. And we know perfectly well HISTORY is written by the winners, there is NO OBJECTIVITY to a lot of sensitive qustions.

So based on the DNA analysis of that skull (which by the way - it was kept in secret for at least 2 years that the skull did not belong to Hitler) + how HISTORY IS MANIPULATED + common sense that everyone would run and Hitler would shoot himself = I do not buy that anymore that Hitler died there without proof

According to Maximillien (which by the way is a fact) a lot of Nazi ran to South America, some to Peru, others to Argentina, Brazil and gawd knows where else.

Now I am not sure as the further claim that Hitler went to ANTARCTICA - there is not a single piece of evidence to suggest that and that he died in the 1960s

But I can say nothing is excludable, least of all followers of Hitler to continue his work there. Vril Society? Maybe a 'myth' like Troy was a 'myth' at first?



Have in mind that the infamous Rendlesham Forest incident - the SYMBOLs that were allegedly on that aircraft, look like MAN-MADE, that became clear and possible when this guy here made striking resembalnce with the Alchemist symbols almost as if modified slightly to look alien and not the same. Does it look to you like aliens would do that?

So where do aliens fit in? Are they here at all or all is Nazi technology? - According to one UFO Researcher who had asked Werner von Braun, the Nazi got the BOOST OF THEIR TECHNOLOGY from THEM i.e - these beings. So I leaved one big:

[size=10]?

to the question.

reply to post by Imtor


Hitler was already dying of Parkinson's disease, if you check the film of his last appearance in public it's blatantly obvious he was suffering quite badly from the symptoms as he greets a bunch of kids who have "volunteered" So his suicide was merely hastening the inevitable. The body and the bunker were treated in the fashion they were for good reason. It stopped Hitler's grave and the bunker becoming a focus for those who wished to carry on his legacy.

Interesting how all the stories about Nazis technology only really took off as those who could actually give first hand testimony died out because the ravages of old age. The irony about the Nazis is this, one reason they never developed the Atom bomb was because it was seen "Jewish science" and therefore the secrecy that surrounded much of the programme was as much about keeping the specific details from Hitler and his stooges as it was about state secrecy. The Nazi "bomb" was not an atomic weapon in the conventional sense rather, a standard high explosive bomb designed to air burst and spread radioactive dust particles over a city.

As for the Horten brothers, one became a high ranking officer in the reformed Luftwaffe, post world war 2 and the other went to South America where they were involved in the failed development of a large cargo carrying aircraft. Their "secret" design sat on public display for almost 20 years before a bunch of scientists and engineers, commissioned to look into possible stealth technology, visited the display and realised that the answer was there staring them in the face in full view of the public.

The Nazi "saucer", was actually built in the now Czech republic and abandoned for the simple reason, helicopters did exactly the same job, cost far less to build and did the job far more efficiently. It might not be as "sexy" as all the myths that have arisen in the intervening years however, that is the actual "truth".



Note Hitler's left hand tucked behind his back yet still shaking like a leaf from the ravages of Parkinson's disease



The Nazi plan to bomb New York

en.wikipedia.org... The Horten Brothers

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by Imtor

 

Note Hitler's left hand tucked behind his back yet still shaking like a leaf from the ravages of Parkinson's disease

I do believe in the Hitler suicide story but his Parkinsons wasnt Michael J Fox bad, in the video he wasn't shaking much - he was just shaking kids hands.

reply to post by FireMoon


I am sorry, unless you have actual proof he died in the Bunker and that he went mad to kill himself (unfortunately lots of movies present him like that and make people think he is so crazy to kill himself), I am not buying his death in a bunker.

Especially when they kept a skull only to make it look like it was his, then revealed they hid the results of the DNA analysis for 2 years. Whether Hitler after and how many years after is not the point.

You forget about the Foo Fighters that certainly weren't 'just reflection' and were more likely to be something of the Nazi than alien.

The saucer you talk about clearly is not the best they could offer. They didn't create Atomic Bomb but when they went to the US they did, the same German scientists after WW2 or rather in the end of it.

And still, the same looking like foo fighters on this allegedly real video over the Capitol. Who would you think - aliens or Nazi technology? I am more leaning to Nazi technology, FACT: The Nazi had more advanced weapons than the alliance.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by schuyler

 

The only reason I can even post here is because...It is TRUE...you cannot differentiate between where Reality and Fantasy begin or end. Plus...as I have said before...EVERYTHING that I have said is either FACTS that can be looked up...such as my statements about the Washington DC Flyovers by Massive Numbers of UFO's.

The FACTS that there are UFOs has never been in dispute on this thread. In fact, it is taken as a given. You needn't argue that UFOs have been sighted. We know they have. That's not really an issue here.

Other statements...are of such information that has been already placed in the Public's Consciousness via various forms of Media as well as Direct Testimony of individuals who have stated they have either seen or experienced these forms of activity.

Again, no dispute and have never expressed such, though I believe one ought to be cautious with this kind of evidence. Steven Greer says he held an alien baby in his arms. Billy Meier claims he time traveled back to see the dinosaurs and "proves" it with a photograph that turns out to be a copy of a page in a contemporary book. Kenneth Read says he put an alien in a refrigerator. They lied. You have to take out the liars and those who are delusional and those who are mistaken from this part of the equation, but yes. We all agree we have accounts from individuals, such that they are.

As far as there being a difference of where these supposed Alien Lifeforms come from or how they get here...Folding Space is INTERDIMENSIONAL TRAVEL via creation of a SINGULARITY or ONE DIMENSIONALITY.

There is also the concept of E.T. traveling between MULTIVERSAL ALTERNATE UNIVERSAL REALITIES wich are DIVERGENT CREATIONS of our UNIVERSAL REALITY.

These are just words. Even if you capitalize them repeatedly, they are still just words with no foundation, nothing to back them up, no definitions. They don't explain anything. Putting labels on conjectures may give them a more solid appearance, but there's still nothing behind them. I'm claiming here that such statements are superficial and do not add to our understanding. Put another way and as an example, a superficial understanding of string theory would lead one to see the extra "dimensions" as the source for our answers. But if you really understood it you would know that our answers are not in there. They lie elsewhere. Can I prove that? Of course not.

This is a VERY complex subject and I think you might want to look some of this up as there is only so much room on a page! LOL! Regardless...I wish you luck in finding what you seek! Split Infinity

Thanks so much for the advice. I may be a newcomer to the subject since I have only been studying it seriously for about forty-five years now as an adult. The one solid conclusion I have come to in this amount of time is that I don't really know how all this stuff works. Further, I see no evidence that anyone else knows either. I see a lot of people who THINK they do. They speak with the VOICE of AUTHORITY as they pontificate about REALITY when, in my opinion, they really haven't proven anything. When you ask them where the beef is, they just repeat themselves with more "authority." In fact, they sound very much like religious zealots who will tell me also, with great authority, that the only way to God is through Jesus Christ.

I don't know how all this stuff works, and I don't think anyone else does either. I'm quite eager to explore the issue with fellow travelers like Gut who can show some humility and understand they don't know either, but I'm not likely to listen to lectures from people I have no particular reason to trust anyway.