President Obama: ‘If You’ve Got a Business — You Didn’t Build That. Somebody Else Made That

Originally posted by Domo1
I think we've sort of gone away from the original debate. I agree that taxing the rich at a different rate is unfair. A flat tax is the only way to be fair. You make 12 million a year, you are doing your share being taxed at the same rate as someone who makes 50k if the percent of tax is the same. Of course at some point I believe there should be a cut off, and some people legitimately need assistance, which is why I agreed with what Obama was saying.

I do not agree that taxing someone at 70% because they make more money is fair, when everyone else gets taxed at a lower rate. The 250k a year thing always bugged me. So take a person like my lady friend. She had to take out a ton of loans to get to the point she's at. So while you tax her mercilessly because she earns a certain amount, she, after all her hard work, is rewarded with a paycheck akin to an uneducated line worker that joined a union. Not fair.

I agree with Obama on some points. It is ridiculous for someone making 250k a year to say they should be taxed the same as someone making 20k. That being said, I also find it ridiculous that people are taxed at a higher percent the more they earn. They are already contributing more via taxes at a flat tax rate. Much, much more.

So many dollars are thrown at nothing now. I firmly believe if we sorted out the govt. a flat tax would be fair to all, and enough to support the truly needy, and maintain our infrastructure.

while i agree in principal with what you say,
i would see the $250,000 higher to 1 million py

i have no real problems with the flat tax model, but the tax take would decline drastically and could be compared to austerity. while short term pain is properly unavoidable, if to much money is taken out of the tax income,
then the military would be forced to cut back,

i know of no politician who would even look at military cuts except maby ron p
but what do i know

either taxes are fair OR they work, NOT both

not without monetary reform in the creation of money through fractional reserve lending for infrastructure spending.
just look at north Dakota. it really works.

xploder

Did President Obama just say that all great things are built by people standing on the shoulders of giants?

What cheek!

reply to post by charles1952


i think i worded that wrong

a little bit for everything"

meaning,
you rely on yourself for the majority of things
and rely on everyone else just a little bit for everything else you need.

hard concept to explain im sorry

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER
see, this is where we disagree.
hospitals ?? most of the new or improved are private, not public.
VA hospital ?? gimme a break.

hmmm, nuclear power stations built in the 60s ??
yeah, aren't they a dream come true ?

bridges ?? have you seen any recent reports ??
many are getting failing marks.

roads built in the 60s huh ?? Federal funded roads, would be interstates and yes, a few, but it's not like you can navigate them in any manner that suits you and that's unConstitutional, considering 'we the people' commissioned, built and paid for them.

money that comes out of society should be funnelled back into it.
tis a shame so much of it is re-routed, eh ??
problem these days is more is coming out and less is coming back.

this still doesn't explain how higher taxes creates an "affluent consumer base".
government spending does not equate to "job creation" ... look around.

ppl are not happy with how our current taxes are being spent, why would anyone in their right mind want to contribute more?

and, why do you skip over the difference in population between the 60s and now?
it'd be a few million more ppl right?
so, 30% of 3 million is still more $$ than 70% of 1 million.

and with regard to trusts, how does/would a tax increase effect them?

i understand how our current money supply is manipulated, wouldn't a better idea be to change that before playing with tax and inflation?

i don't think you understand the corporate benefits derived from off-shore activities.
that is where the majority of your "tax base" is, in untouchable land.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
Did President Obama just say that all great things are built by people standing on the shoulders of giants?

What cheek!

most scientists under stand the concept,
you nailed it with a few words

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."

source

star to you

xploder

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by jude11
Well I could use some help with my bakery but I don't see any politicians coming in to wash pots and pans for me.

Nope...I DO THAT.

Obama..pfffttt...

Out of curiosity.... how much would you be willing to pay a dishwasher? How about a baker?

If they work as hard as I do and can show that their contribution to our team helps us all keep our jobs, the sky is the limit IMO.

I don't mind paying someone what they are worth because we all need to be paid in the exact way.

For example, I have a dishwasher who is 17 yrs old. He makes sure that my wife and I can do our jobs which is putting out product at a fast rate so we all get paid. His job is to take a pot, dish etc or clean a work station immediately so we can move onto the next product. He does this fast, without complaint and without being asked. He knows that the faster he works, the faster we get product out and we all have jobs.

He gets 15/hr.

Peace

Peace

Wow! You are a diamond in the rough my friend. Unfortunately, most business owners don't think the same way. I've been in and out of the food industry for a good part of my life, and I've NEVER heard of a dishwasher making 15/hour (especially in a bakery).

reply to post by XPLodER

i have no real problems with the flat tax model, but the tax take would decline drastically and could be compared to austerity. while short term pain is properly unavoidable, if to much money is taken out of the tax income, then the military would be forced to cut back,

Hey, I never said it would work

I think there are some places where the budget could really be trimmed, and some taxes could be a little higher (and reasonable).

Every time Obama opens his suckhole, it really reinforces what his aims are.

Who the hell has their administration encourage people to go ON food stamps with advertising? His #ing job is to get and keep people OFF food stamps.

Having studied his ilk for many years, I can only come to the conclusion that he wants people to be dependent. Be it food stamps or welfare, as long as there are people receiving "free money" from the government, they will keep voting for him. The "educational system" in this country has brain washed people into thinking the government should provide for their every whim.

Make no mistake, I was on welfare briefly as a child, and my family got off that # as quickly as they could, they didn't make a career of it.

The man is a Hugo Chavez wannabe.

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by XPLodER

 

see, this is where we disagree.
hospitals ?? most of the new or improved are private, not public.
VA hospital ?? gimme a break.

in my country they are private, and the wealthy can use private (if they want a faster surgery)

hmmm, nuclear power stations built in the 60s ??
yeah, aren't they a dream come true ?

yes i agree, i hate nuclear power

bridges ?? have you seen any recent reports ??
many are getting failing marks.

oportunity to inject money into the local economy, (just dont offshore the work)

roads built in the 60s huh ?? Federal funded roads, would be interstates and yes, a few, but it's not like you can navigate them in any manner that suits you and that's unConstitutional, considering 'we the people' commissioned, built and paid for them.

i under stand your concern but roads are like arteries for the life blood (commodities) of the economy

money that comes out of society should be funnelled back into it.
tis a shame so much of it is re-routed, eh ??
problem these days is more is coming out and less is coming back.

that is the crux of the issue as i see it

this still doesn't explain how higher taxes creates an "affluent consumer base".
government spending does not equate to "job creation" ... look around.

wast full spending is the enemy,
as is redirection of capital that does not benefit the real economy and ends up in trust instead of flowing through the economy

ppl are not happy with how our current taxes are being spent, why would anyone in their right mind want to contribute more?

subjectively,
if the wealthy and trusts were taxed it would free up money for understructure development and jobs

and, why do you skip over the difference in population between the 60s and now?
it'd be a few million more ppl right?
so, 30% of 3 million is still more $$ than 70% of 1 million.

there are also many more corporations now than in the 60ies

and with regard to trusts, how does/would a tax increase effect them?

anti trust laws and or changing trust tax rates

i understand how our current money supply is manipulated, wouldn't a better idea be to change that before playing with tax and inflation?

i don't think you understand the corporate benefits derived from off-shore activities.
that is where the majority of your "tax base" is, in untouchable land.

these two things if done correctly would lower the upper tax rate increase required to stabilze things

no loop holes

xploder

Originally posted by beezzer
Liberals will look for any and all justification to raise taxes, grow government.

Obama's statement was inane.

You speak the truth, sir.

Create a nation of dependents and you can rule for life, as long as those checks keep going out every month.

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by XPLodER

 

i have no real problems with the flat tax model, but the tax take would decline drastically and could be compared to austerity. while short term pain is properly unavoidable, if to much money is taken out of the tax income, then the military would be forced to cut back,

Hey, I never said it would work

I think there are some places where the budget could really be trimmed, and some taxes could be a little higher (and reasonable).

like the largest most profitable corporation on earth payed zero taxes last year.
untill this is adressed,
the rest of use will pay their share and higher taxes will result

xploder

I actually think he started to say something semi-intelligent for once, until he mentioned the government. In the town I was born in nonetheless, Roanoke, VA. Roanoke is a city that still has a profitable working class and stable, growing economy in many different areas. Really its a nice place to live if you ask me, half way to being a big city and us Virginia folk know how to run things for the good of everyone. Lots of good colleges around there too.

Regardless, hes trying to play for support and whatever comes out his mouth isn't indicative of anything he'll do while in office. I still don't like him and I'll never vote for or support him.

reply to post by XPLodER
my mistake, i thought you were an American.
here, we have both and although some private ones get federal funding, through a variety of progams, the public ones are primarily supported by both Fed/State funding. (taxes)
the VA is a poor excuse and a poor example. our Vets deserve much better.

not all of them are shoddy or in disrepair but one is too many considering current public contributions.

i think we could have developed numerous power sources by now had the "game" been played differently.
and i still side with Einstein when he said ... nuclear power is one hell of a way to boil water.
IMHO, it was a horrible, horrible mistake that will soon bite us all in the arse.

i agree bridge repair/replacement is an economic opportunity, so, what's the holdup ??
[seriously, that was rhetorical, i know the answer]

they can be [interstates] like an artery, however, if you are familiar with this countries Interstate system,
it is developed to bypass many interior, fantastic, American hometowns.
one who travels for business, often uses the Interstates.
those who travel for pleasure, avoid them as best they can.

so, in the context of the whole country, we could do without'em.
certain states however, would have great difficulty functioning without them.

also, with regard to the Interstates, for the $$ spent on them, they sure should be maintained better

wast full spending is the enemy,
as is redirection of capital that does not benefit the real economy and ends up in trust instead of flowing through the economy

yes, but this principle cannot coexist with the Federal Reserve system.

subjectively,
if the wealthy and trusts were taxed it would free up money for understructure development and jobs

honestly, that suggestion sounds like robbing peter to pay paul.

what does the #of corporations have to do with the population difference?
corporations are actually paying less today than they did in the 70s.
wouldn't fixing that be a good place to start?

the resolution of a single problem (trusts) will not resolve the national problem.
i follow your theory, i just don't see viable application considering obligations we cannot meet.

there isn't enough cashola in existance to cover the debt.
in any account, in any trust, collectively.
manipulation is what got us here, do you really believe that'll fix it ??

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by jude11

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by jude11
Well I could use some help with my bakery but I don't see any politicians coming in to wash pots and pans for me.

Nope...I DO THAT.

Obama..pfffttt...

Out of curiosity.... how much would you be willing to pay a dishwasher? How about a baker?

If they work as hard as I do and can show that their contribution to our team helps us all keep our jobs, the sky is the limit IMO.

I don't mind paying someone what they are worth because we all need to be paid in the exact way.

For example, I have a dishwasher who is 17 yrs old. He makes sure that my wife and I can do our jobs which is putting out product at a fast rate so we all get paid. His job is to take a pot, dish etc or clean a work station immediately so we can move onto the next product. He does this fast, without complaint and without being asked. He knows that the faster he works, the faster we get product out and we all have jobs.

He gets 15/hr.

Peace

Peace

Wow! You are a diamond in the rough my friend. Unfortunately, most business owners don't think the same way. I've been in and out of the food industry for a good part of my life, and I've NEVER heard of a dishwasher making 15/hour (especially in a bakery).

He does more than wash dishes.

He anticipates the needs of the bakers and knows what we need before we do sometimes.

If I finish cinnabuns and go for a smoke I come back and the mixer and hooks are cleaned, the table is washed and ready for biscuits. If I mix a batch of bread and need to wait on a customer, I come back and he's weighing the loaves for the pans.

So as a dishwasher, he's ok but as a right hand...invaluable.

And that's how we all keep our livelihoods.

Peace

reply to post by Honor93

honestly, that suggestion sounds like robbing peter to pay paul.

its more like robbing blind immortal trusts that serve no useful benefit,

an example i know of is a trust set up for a school.
the school doesn't exist any more, and the trust holds 300 million dollars, but is imortal,
none of the people who set it up have claim over it,
so instead of educating people, the trust hordes money.
there is no social benifit and no reason to exist any more,
yet it does ????

what does the #of corporations have to do with the population difference?
corporations are actually paying less today than they did in the 70s.
wouldn't fixing that be a good place to start?

yes OWS is a good idea

the resolution of a single problem (trusts) will not resolve the national problem.
i follow your theory, i just don't see viable application considering obligations we cannot meet.

you dont realize how big some of these trusts are,
if you did you would demand they pat some sort of tax.
some currently dont pay a cent while writing millions of to tax,
you as a tax payer are paying the tax deductions for expenses for these trusts,
20 plus board members all perks, no tax on your tax dime.

there isn't enough cashola in existance to cover the debt.
in any account, in any trust, collectively.
manipulation is what got us here, do you really believe that'll fix it ??

look i didnt create this system,
if i had there would be no such thing as compounded interest,
there would be no federal reserve,
no fractional reserve banking,
and only congress would coin money for the benefit of the people of the nation, not [private banks,

the only fix is to restore laws to follow the constitution. IMHO

xploder

It is always the governing controlling authorities that have the point of the spear or barrel of a gun that serve to LIMIT the rate of success of the individual, if not outright destroy it. All under the lie that syphoning off others work is for the good of the society as a whole. The transition from "social justice" advocate to lover of individual freedom is the lightening strike revelation that the emporer has no clothes.

I enjoy the way the Obummer supporters change the thread as it moves along.

What he was saying is that businesses were built on the backs of workers.
This is the same BS that the OWS clowns were touting. It is Marxist rhtetoric, plain and simple.
Everybody understands what he is saying by socialist code words.

Mom and Pop didn't make it on the backs of other people. Mom and Pop worked 80 hours per week if not more to make it on their own. They took the risk. How about sharing the risk? If the business fails, then shouldn't the employees have to cough up the losses? Isn't that turn about is fair play?

It's like this. Conservatives sign their checks on the front. Liberals sign their checks on the back.
Get back on topic.

Originally posted by Nite_wing
I enjoy the way the Obummer supporters change the thread as it moves along.

What he was saying is that businesses were built on the backs of workers.
This is the same BS that the OWS clowns were touting. It is Marxist rhtetoric, plain and simple.
Everybody understands what he is saying by socialist code words.

Mom and Pop didn't make it on the backs of other people. Mom and Pop worked 80 hours per week if not more to make it on their own. They took the risk. How about sharing the risk? If the business fails, then shouldn't the employees have to cough up the losses? Isn't that turn about is fair play?

It's like this. Conservatives sign their checks on the front. Liberals sign their checks on the back.
Get back on topic.

I am so going to plagiarise that last sentance, Nite-Wing. I've never heard that before and it holds very high information density.

reply to post by MidnightTide


"‘If You’ve Got a Business — You Didn’t Build That. Somebody Else Made That"

That statement reads exactly like something out of Atlas Shrugged. What the deuce!?. Are you Phloxing kidding me!?




Obama.
What a freaking ultramaroon.

Well I'll be...That may be the first thing to come out of Obamas mouth I actually agree with.Some people believe that because they have a succesful business,that they did it all on their own.Without the infrastructure built by the U.S.government;i.e. the American people,very little would get done.You may OWN the business,but you OWE a debt of gratitude to others.