President Obama: ‘If You’ve Got a Business — You Didn’t Build That. Somebody Else Made That

Originally posted by jude11
Well I could use some help with my bakery but I don't see any politicians coming in to wash pots and pans for me.

Nope...I DO THAT.

Obama..pfffttt...

Out of curiosity.... how much would you be willing to pay a dishwasher? How about a baker?

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by beezzer

 

So everyone should pay their fair share, except for the 50% of the population that doesn't?

That's "fair"?

Punishing the wealthy is hardly "fair".

You need to contemplate what the definition of "fair" means.

Fair does not always mean equal...sorry...it just doesn't.

In fact, there are many instances where one is given an advantage for the sole purpose of making things fair.


Unbelievable that people can't comprehend this...selfishness seems to be at an all time high.

The shrill bleating and justification to take more, grow bigger government is unbelievable.

Fair obviously does NOT mean equal in your view. It is thinking like this that punishes success and rewards mediocrity.

You'd do well in the current administation.

I also like when people say that an individuals success comes at the cost of other peoples health, happiness and livelihood. Or that the USA is only wealthy because a bunch of others in the world live in poverty. What a weak mentality. I guess every successful athlete should feel guilt for not allowing the other guy to beat him. I guess I should feel guilty that I have a better product that does the job better because my business competitor needs to eat too. This is where all this crap leads to.

I want the USA to run every other country into the ground if that's what it takes for us to stay on top. I want us to utilize every slick bit of tricky international horse thievery that our best minds can come up with. I don't want us engaging in wanton murder or genocide. I want to win because we're the best. It is up to everyone to do their best to succeed and it is up to every country to make themselves competitive. Oh, the USA is the source of all your problems? Good, I'm glad, because you obviously don't have what it takes to make it in the world, wouldn't want your weak genes getting passed on.

Originally posted by XPLodER



there ability to consume and spend is what fueled the american economic engine that allowed capitalism to beat communist business models.

put another way,
without an afluent consumer base how do you sell stuff and who to,
and with a declining consumer base, tax revinue drops

this contracts supply and demand, and taxes rise and profits fall
= fail.

xploder

And how does any of that justify enabling/growing government with an increase in taxes?

reply to post by AwakeinNM


ahh you must be the brain surgeon who can operate on himself
i wondered how long it would be till we had someone post thay everything they did was in isolation.
and in no way was not some specialisation involved

you grew and harvested and cooked your own food

cut down trees and made your own house,

invented a computer and made a successful business

all by yourself?

you keep your homeland safe from enemies,
delivered your own children,
and still had enough time to inovate and specialise?

really


xploder

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
He is 100% right.

If you can't see this...then you are delusional, arrogant, and have way too high of an opinion of yourself.


Go Obama...this is what he should have been saying all along.

Well, I do think I am better then those who sit on their asses and seem to feel it is their right to collect a government check.

Originally posted by skepticconwatcher

Originally posted by MidnightTide
President Obama: ‘If You’ve Got a Business — You Didn’t Build That. Somebody Else Made That Happen’

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.
.

It is the people, their sweat, their tears and their blood that builds a nation. It seems that those in government, from both parties, have forgotten this. Without the people, the government is nothing.

BOTH YOU AND THE PRESIDENT JUST SAID THE SAME DAYEM THING. HE JUST SPEAKS MORE ELOQUENTLY THAN YOU DO. STOP LOOKING FOR SHET TO ATTACK SOMEBODY WITH. IT'S GETTING OLD AND LAME.

edit on 15-7-2012 by skepticconwatcher because: (no reason given)

hehehe

Never said I was a word smith, did I?...and the context of what I said and what he said are two different things. Oh my, there I go again thinking I am better then some.

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by beezzer

 

All higher taxes do is grow government.

A fair tax, a flat tax, with no loopholes for anyone is the right way to go. It doesn't pubish the wealthy nor does it reward the lower income people.

As for what a flat tax would do for business?

I'll look into it.

acually i can show you graphs that show, what grew was the middle class,
they became the largest most wealth consumer base the world has ever seen,

there ability to consume and spend is what fueled the american economic engine that allowed capitalism to beat communist business models.

put another way,
without an afluent consumer base how do you sell stuff and who to,
and with a declining consumer base, tax revinue drops

this contracts supply and demand, and taxes rise and profits fall
= fail.

xploder

ok, please explain how the highlighted part happens.
i don't grasp how higher taxes created the "affluent consumer base" you mentioned.
[unless you're referring to the elite group suckling/skimming off tax revenues]

how do ppl who have less to spend become powerhouse consumers ??

Two things that seem to be danced around here.

1.) What is "fair?" Nobody has ever defined it. Is it 70% of all income over $250,000, and 10% of everything between $20,000 and $250,000? Surely, some one in the President's office (or even in this thread) can identify "fair," it's talked about often enough.

2.) Assume that it is true that nobody built anything without somebody's help. What conclusion does that lead to? In other words, so what? Does that mean that everything built belongs to everybody? What, precisely, does it mean, what does that thinking lead to?

Are direct answers too much to hope for?

reply to post by beezzer

And how does any of that justify enabling/growing government with an increase in taxes?

its an example beez,

the time that america grew to become dominant in the world,
the top tax rates were 70%

the money wasnt given to welfare because the economy was booming because there was money "FLOWING" through the economy, people had jobs because of increasing demand.

you have to think this, without acual money running around in the acual economy,
there is not enough money to serve as the function of "a medium of exchange" for goods and services.

now the banks have servilely contracted the money supply,
supply and demand cant be satisfied with the limited medium of exchange currently FLOWING IN the economy.

and this causes a contraction in demand for goods and services.

i hate the banks for contracting the money supply,

but other than force them to lend again,
higher taxes for the top rate serve the same purpose.

to say it was ok in the 60ies to tax top rate at 70% (greatest expansion of the middle class ever)
but to do it now is socialism? 38% tax rate (greatest contraction of the middle class ever)

your choice is to help us protest the banks, force expansion of money in the real economy,
or tax teh higest rate back to 60ies rates.

there are other wats but this is what it boils down to

xploder

I only read the first page of posts, heck I didn't even read the article, but it seems that he's using an angle to throw a pitch.

The way I see it is like this. We all go through life during a time that someone before us paved the way for the time when you are alive. However, you too are paving the way for the next generation as you live. Therefore, the past achievements that allow anyone to do anything now should not be used as an excuse to ignore or belittle the present contributions to a future world.

Give them a slap on the back and a hardy handshake, buy them a beer and call it good when they contribute, then move on to the next innovator. Yeah, give credit where it's due, but don't try making me pay for something that has already paid off.

Originally posted by charles1952
Two things that seem to be danced around here.

1.) What is "fair?" Nobody has ever defined it. Is it 70% of all income over $250,000, and 10% of everything between $20,000 and $250,000? Surely, some one in the President's office (or even in this thread) can identify "fair," it's talked about often enough.

subjective,
i can build an economic tax model that works "or"
i can build one that is fair

i personally cant build one that is both without being given the ability to create money as a bank would through "fractional reserve lending " and spend that money into the real economy "building infrastructure projects" to be sold off at completion. you make home loans and any "interest or profit" on the loans is used to build infrastructure. at the end of the project shares are floated and the project is sold.

the money (the portion that is interest or profit) is destroyed to prevent inflation heating up to much.

2.) Assume that it is true that nobody built anything without somebody's help. What conclusion does that lead to? In other words, so what? Does that mean that everything built belongs to everybody? What, precisely, does it mean, what does that thinking lead to?

Are direct answers too much to hope for?

i like you and will do my best to answer
IMHO
it means that while people must be free to specialise in what ever endeavour they choose,
but they must never forget without everyone else being health and happy (employed)

they will not be able to specialise and innovate and no one will be able to afford to purchase their goods.

america became great when every person relyed on each other "a little bit for everything"

xploder

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reply to post by Honor93


state infrastructure spending,

building hospitals and roads and power stations and bridges,

all that money goes into the economy,

a hundred dollar bill may be paid to a labourer,
who spends it on beer,
the bar spends it on new tables
the furniture maker pays their worker
he buyes a car.............

the super mega rich have trusts, where money sits, where money goes in and never comes out,
where all the costs of a person are tax deductible, once money goes in to some of these trusts it never leaves.

if the amount of money held in trust get to high,\
there is no money flowing around in the real economy,

contraction of the money supply = job losses.

either join us protesting the banks, = leanding creating new money to flow through the economy,

or

tax rates must go back to the 60ies levels

IMHO

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
reply to post by AwakeinNM

 

ahh you must be the brain surgeon who can operate on himself
i wondered how long it would be till we had someone post thay everything they did was in isolation.
and in no way was not some specialisation involved

you grew and harvested and cooked your own food

cut down trees and made your own house,

invented a computer and made a successful business

all by yourself?

you keep your homeland safe from enemies,
delivered your own children,
and still had enough time to inovate and specialise?

really

xploder

Screw you, buddy. I am not now and will never be in lock step with socialist views like yours.

So we're held up by the accomplishments of all those around us?

NO WONDER THIS COUNTRY IS COLLAPSING!!

I think we've sort of gone away from the original debate. I agree that taxing the rich at a different rate is unfair. A flat tax is the only way to be fair. You make 12 million a year, you are doing your share being taxed at the same rate as someone who makes 50k if the percent of tax is the same. Of course at some point I believe there should be a cut off, and some people legitimately need assistance, which is why I agreed with what Obama was saying.

I do not agree that taxing someone at 70% because they make more money is fair, when everyone else gets taxed at a lower rate. The 250k a year thing always bugged me. So take a person like my lady friend. She had to take out a ton of loans to get to the point she's at. So while you tax her mercilessly because she earns a certain amount, she, after all her hard work, is rewarded with a paycheck akin to an uneducated line worker that joined a union. Not fair.

I agree with Obama on some points. It is ridiculous for someone making 250k a year to say they should be taxed the same as someone making 20k. That being said, I also find it ridiculous that people are taxed at a higher percent the more they earn. They are already contributing more via taxes at a flat tax rate. Much, much more.

So many dollars are thrown at nothing now. I firmly believe if we sorted out the govt. a flat tax would be fair to all, and enough to support the truly needy, and maintain our infrastructure.

Originally posted by Bone75

Originally posted by jude11
Well I could use some help with my bakery but I don't see any politicians coming in to wash pots and pans for me.

Nope...I DO THAT.

Obama..pfffttt...

Out of curiosity.... how much would you be willing to pay a dishwasher? How about a baker?

If they work as hard as I do and can show that their contribution to our team helps us all keep our jobs, the sky is the limit IMO.

I don't mind paying someone what they are worth because we all need to be paid in the exact way.

For example, I have a dishwasher who is 17 yrs old. He makes sure that my wife and I can do our jobs which is putting out product at a fast rate so we all get paid. His job is to take a pot, dish etc or clean a work station immediately so we can move onto the next product. He does this fast, without complaint and without being asked. He knows that the faster he works, the faster we get product out and we all have jobs.

He gets 15/hr.

Peace

Peace

Is this more justification for expanding gov't again? The gov'ts of our western "democracies" don't build our roads, the people do and with our money that is basically forced out of our paychecks.
Governments these days steal our cash so asking for more is nonsensical imo.
If you are a fascist, you will be loving the creeping slavery. The small business owners are being pressed and pushed out slowly. Death by 1000 cuts.
It's too expensive to have kids, yet we load people onto the gravy trains. Back in the day you could afford to start a family earlier. Now people are waiting longer and longer and we will see more defects and sterility.
God help us all.
The debt is a mountain our children will have to climb

My guess is, the next step will be in the realm of thought crimes

"We allow you to exist, so where's our cut? We licensed your birth, employee #12895489"

It's amazing how people will fall in to the govt's lap like a cheerleader with a twinkle in her eye.

reply to post by XPLodER

Dear XPLodER,

I'm grateful for your kindness, and your answers.

I think you're quite right when you say a fair tax is subjective. It will be whatever the President and Congress think it should be. My concern with the present administration is that they don't seem to be providing a clear economic tax model that either works, or is fair. There is so much that can be hidden behind that word, and with the failure of the President's party to produce a budget that can be examined, my fear of the unknown just grows. I was hoping for some economic leadership.

it means that while people must be free to specialise in what ever endeavour they choose,
but they must never forget without everyone else being health and happy (employed)

they will not be able to specialise and innovate and no one will be able to afford to purchase their goods.

america became great when every person relyed on each other "a little bit for everything"

I agree again that everyone should be interested in the well-being of the entire society because a healthy society provides benefits for all. But does this justify the idea, which I think I hear being expressed, that the government is responsible for the society and is entitled to all the wealth created? I think not, but I might be misunderstanding the concept.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by beezzer
Liberals will look for any and all justification to raise taxes, grow government.

Obama's statement was inane.

Wow I didn't read all the comments but mine was very similar to this.. interesting