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What would you do?

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posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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You are accused of a serious crime, you are not guilty nor have you been in any trouble in the past. You don't do drugs or alcohol (so you can pass a test) if need be.

They toss you in jail just based on the accusation, and in the process they seriously injure you (so you are in pain and will be for awhile). You are not read any Miranda rights, in fact none of the "rights" you learned about seem to apply (but you politely submit).

You get out on R.O.R. and you must take a public defender who clearly is not interested in facts, and is running for prosecutor in the next election.

2 Months go by, the case keeps getting delayed. The prosecutor keeps offering deals and they only include pleading "no contest" and "deferred" (which basically means u agree you guilty at least somewhat). google: stacking

You get a big bill in the mail for the injuries received while in custody (you still are in pain too, no medical treatment given other than x-rays proving broken bones).

There is no evidence that you are guilty, in fact, upon discovery there is an indication that supports the accuser was not truthful. Yet, the prosecutor does not budge on her decision.

The public defender finds out you refuse to plea and demands a jury trial... she becomes hostile with you for some reason and tells you to put it in writing.....

It was mentioned by police that this shouldn't have happened to you yet, they "did their job"

You have documented evidence to support your innocence but, you are not given the opportunity to submit it into evidence.

what do you do?

edit on 14-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: spelling correction




posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 04:20 AM
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I would post more details, there is only 1/4 of the story here. What are you charged with? That makes a big difference for one.



You get a big bill in the mail for the injuries received while in custody (you still are in pain too, no medical treatment given other than x-rays proving broken bones).

Sounds kind of strange... They would bother to X-ray you but not treat you? If they were really trying to screw you out of treatment why would they even bother x-raying you? Makes no sense.



There is no evidence that you are guilty, in fact, upon discovery there is an indication that supports the accuser was not truthful. Yet, the prosecutor does not budge on her decision.

If there is no evidence there is no case, im having a hard time believing your story.



You have documented evidence to support your innocence but, you are not given the opportunity to submit it into evidence.

That is usually because evidence would not be submitted before a plea was made.

You should go into detail a bit more because naturally we will only see your side of the story and you are not even posting all of it. So if you are going to ask for advice you might want to be a bit more helpful on your end. Trust me I have danced in and out of court more times than i can remember. There is a judge here that rolls his eyes whenever he sees me.

The public defender works for you-remember that. Make him your B. He has to put on the best legal defense possible, if not- you get another trial. Don't find a cheap lawyer either all they will do is ask for 5 grand,take it and then come back and say "I got you a great deal, you just have to say no contest".
So, as we say in booking. What is it they say you did?
edit on 14-7-2012 by DavidWillts because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 




what do you do?


As the other poster suggested, more info will be needed to be provided to give an informed decision. But, in the eyes of the court, it's not what you know, but what you can prove.

I can't say take it to trial or accept plea deal, more facts would need to be presented. On top of that, advice would best come from a lawyer.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:08 AM
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reply to post by DavidWillts
 


Thanks, yeah, it's embarrassing. I tried to post the facts without going to much into my personal life but I understand how it would be hard to give advise without it.

The charges are: Ohio Revised Code (2919.25A) Domestic violence




Sounds kind of strange... They would bother to X-ray you but not treat you? If they were really trying to screw you out of treatment why would they even bother x-raying you? Makes no sense.


Yes. Well, I have never been through this before. When I fell down (bad spot on the walkway), I landed on my chest. I was unable to break my fall because I was handcuffed behind my back. I was sort of in shock that I was being arrested still, the pain of the injury got worse as the night went on and in the morning they took me to the hospital, took the x-rays and just confirmed the broken ribs. I never had broken ribs, they told me to take Tylenol. (The cops were not mean or anything, they were actually very respectful).



There is no evidence that you are guilty, in fact, upon discovery there is an indication that supports the accuser was not truthful. Yet, the prosecutor does not budge on her decision. If there is no evidence there is no case, im having a hard time believing your story.
.

You have a hard time believing it? ha, me too! I didn't even see the report until my attorney filed for discovery. When I did see it, it is the report the policemen on the scene wrote.
(I can't scan a copy of it, until my guy leaves for work, but when he does, I will post it). When you see it, the cop even mentions what he observed, which indicates deception by the accuser.




You have documented evidence to support your innocence but, you are not given the opportunity to submit it into evidence. That is usually because evidence would not be submitted before a plea was made.


Yes, My accuser took my phone away from me earlier in the evening so when I heard him pull in the driveway (coming back) I popped on Skype. I wanted to have someone in contact in case something bad happened. There is an hour and 14 min of recorded events (my accuser does not know I have this, but my attorney does).

I was not given the opportunity to have a lawyer or say anything at the time of my plea. I had to make a plea at the same time as they had the hearing to let me out of jail, I plead not guilty.




You should go into detail a bit more because naturally we will only see your side of the story and you are not even posting all of it. So if you are going to ask for advice you might want to be a bit more helpful on your end. Trust me I have danced in and out of court more times than i can remember. There is a judge here that rolls his eyes whenever he sees me.


I have never been through this, so the judge does not know me. I listed the facts of the case. I was accused of a crime that I was not guilty of. The police on the scene said based on the type of accusation he must take me to jail, and he did. I was charged with domestic violence. The actual fact is, I was the one who was assaulted but, the cop never asked me what happened, he only asked me to confirm my accusers claim. When I didn't say anything, he took that as guilt I guess.


The public defender works for you-remember that. Make him your B. He has to put on the best legal defense possible, if not- you get another trial. Don't find a cheap lawyer either all they will do is ask for 5 grand,take it and then come back and say "I got you a great deal, you just have to say no contest".


I understand that the public defender is supposed to work for me, but it certainly doesn't appear that way. I don't understand what you mean by another trial, as I said, so far the procedure hasn't been going the way I understand it should be going according to the written protocol. I don't understand the last part of your post.... I cannot plead "no contest" I am not guilty and I should not be forced to say I am responsible for the charges, because I am not.

Thanks for replying
edit on 14-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:25 AM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


File for another public defender. If your current attorney is not working for you, fire them. Get another out of the Public Defender pool. If your public defender is running for office to be a prosecutor, you have grounds to believe there's conflict of interest. Get another public defender.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:27 AM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 

now we are getting somewhere


Yes. Well, I have never been through this before. When I fell down (bad spot on the walkway), I landed on my chest. I was unable to break my fall because I was handcuffed behind my back. I was sort of in shock that I was being arrested still, the pain of the injury got worse as the night went on and in the morning they took me to the hospital, took the x-rays and just confirmed the broken ribs. I never had broken ribs, they told me to take Tylenol. (The cops were not mean or anything, they were actually very respectful).

Well, there is not much treatment they can do for broken ribs.



When I did see it, it is the report the policemen on the scene wrote.(I can't scan a copy of it, until my guy leaves for work, but when he does, I will post it). When you see it, the cop even mentions what he observed, which indicates deception by the accuser.

Observations by the police are evidence... And deception by the victim is common in domestic abuse cases, when a child/spouse/friend is abused they usually have a hard time being honest with the police because of the emotional attachment they have to the person that beats them.



Yes, My accuser took my phone away from me earlier in the evening so when I heard him pull in the driveway (coming back) I popped on Skype. I wanted to have someone in contact in case something bad happened. There is an hour and 14 min of recorded events (my accuser does not know I have this, but my attorney does).

Well that might not help you depending on your state's laws, where you were and how the whole thing goes dow, you could possibly face an illegal wire tapping charge (at worst) but it may not even be used in court.



I was not given the opportunity to have a lawyer or say anything at the time of my plea. I had to make a plea at the same time as they had the hearing to let me out of jail, I plead not guilty.

This is how you just learned the hard lesson. They never "give" you the opportunity for a lawyer you have to take it. The proper procedure when in police custody is to continually ask for your lawyer, "I want a lawyer now" is the correct answer to any question they ask you.



I cannot plead "no contest" I am not guilty and I should not be forced to say I am responsible for the charges, because I am not.


Well these domestic abuse cases get crazy, it can boil down to your word against his and then you will have to take the chances with the jury, which could go either way. "No Contest" does not mean guilty it means that you will not fight the allegations. If the offer a good deal you might want to take it, if you plea no contest you could get off with nothing and then you can petition the court to get your record expunged which means it is taken off your record.
But i have also seen cases that keep getting pushed back like this just end up getting thrown out by the judge. Most of the domestic abuse cases i have seen end up getting dropped.

But there are a lot of other factors that can help or hurt you. Were you in his house or yours? Do you live together?



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by ScatterBrain
 

If your public defender is running for office to be a prosecutor, you have grounds to believe there's conflict of interest. Get another public defender.


That is not quite how it works, If he was running to be a prosecutor then he would have to put on a pretty good defense, especially in Ohio. In Ohio a lawyer can get sued for malpractice for errors, in other states you would have to proves that those errors would have won the case and then he could get reported to the state bar. the one she has is probably the best one to have.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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File for another public defender. If your current attorney is not working for you, fire them. Get another out of the Public Defender pool. If your public defender is running for office to be a prosecutor, you have grounds to believe there's conflict of interest. Get another public defender.
reply to post by Druscilla
 


Thank you. I live in a very small town. I wasn't aware that there is a small group of people that run everything. There are only a few attorneys in this area. My accuser has an attorney as well (one he paid for that's local), and it appears that she is not working for his best interest either. He doesn't know it, but I can tell. They got him for threatening me in front of the officer. He didn't threaten me harm, he threatened to do something that is not a crime (but still wrong)...but the way he said it you couldn't tell what kind of threat and the cop was quick to charge him. My accuser is trying to make a deal (what guilty people do) and is angry that I am refusing. He says I am making his case drag out because I will not make a deal. So I have my guy, the prosecutor, and two attorneys that all seem to be on the same page but apparently not seeing it the same way I do.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:40 AM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Just take it up the rear. That's all you can do. It will end where it ends. If a prosecutor isn't being used for target practice, to learn how to properly get one between the eyes, they're literally wasting air. That's the only thing they're good for.

They only care about conviction and that's it. They'll hide evidence, lie, whatever they have to do. Infact, what do you expect from someone that would GET FIRED if they couldn't LIE? If a judge or prosecutor isn't pure evil, there is no such thing.
edit on 14-7-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-7-2012 by tinfoilman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:45 AM
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Seems to me that if they failed to read you your rights, you could probably get your case thrown out.

Yeah, get a different lawyer.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by subject x
Seems to me that if they failed to read you your rights, you could probably get your case thrown out.


That is not how it works... The Supreme Court has ruled that people in custody must be warned of their rights before being interrogated.
Its a common myth people cling too, its right up there with the classic "undercover cops HAVE to say the are cops if you ask them"



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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I would write-up a very brief (maybe 2 pages) summary of the siutaion citing the key elements that prove you are innocent --- no conjecture or subjective opinion, just the meat of the situation. Be clear, concise and compelling. Make sure you explain that you cannot pay for an attorney and need help. Explain why your court-appointed attorney is failing you. Be specific. Mail copies (get friends/family to help) to every defense attorney and legal aid office in your area. You may get lucky.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 09:11 AM
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I would write-up a very brief (maybe 2 pages) summary of the siutaion citing the key elements that prove you are innocent --- no conjecture or subjective opinion, just the meat of the situation. Be clear, concise and compelling. Make sure you explain that you cannot pay for an attorney and need help. Explain why your court-appointed attorney is failing you. Be specific. Mail copies (get friends/family to help) to every defense attorney and legal aid office in your area. You may get lucky.
reply to post by jtma508
 


Thank you. It doesn't take 2 pages. I have not had the opportunity to submit anything, or comment on the matter for the record.

Thank you, I would do what you say but, I didn't tell anyone what happened because it's embarrassing. I don't want them to know the situation I am in. I can tell it here because no one knows me here and I need to figure out how to handle it without compromising my integrity even though the court system seems to lack it.
Thanks again


edit on 14-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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NEVER plea, never admit guilt,never settle, never, never, never.
If you are unwilling to be a caged animal, start looking at final options.
Cages are for animals and slaves, I am neither.



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


I give every scrap of information I have to as many local journalistic sources as possible, especially x-rays and mention any video cameras that might have had a view of any part of the incident, and then I flee in hopes that my fugitive status will garner some attention for me.

I've seen things like this before- lucky for the people involved it was relatively low stakes stuff and nobody ever went further than county, but I've never seen justice stand between anyone and jail.

Of course it also depends on the stakes. If we're talking about an illegitimate DUI, maybe I roll the dice in court, because you don't want to screw whoever bailed you out or risk even more time if you might be able to get a jury on your side (though I'd still push hard for some attention from the media first).

But if we're talking about real prison time, I'd rather be shot dead, so if there was no way out I'd probably fight and make them kill me and hope to god that was enough to finally make somebody ask questions and cause those who wronged me to be held to account.

Edit to add: I'm treating this as a hypothetical. If this is actually a present situation in your life still ongoing, you can't act on the advice of strangers online. In that case I'd say it's time for you to start talking to the most respectable people you know- whether that's at your church or the schools you've attended or a union you belong to- where ever you are known by wise people- and see if they have better ideas.
edit on Sat 14 Jul 2012 by The Vagabond because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by ScatterBrain


I would write-up a very brief (maybe 2 pages) summary of the siutaion citing the key elements that prove you are innocent --- no conjecture or subjective opinion, just the meat of the situation. Be clear, concise and compelling. Make sure you explain that you cannot pay for an attorney and need help. Explain why your court-appointed attorney is failing you. Be specific. Mail copies (get friends/family to help) to every defense attorney and legal aid office in your area. You may get lucky.
reply to post by jtma508
 


Thank you. It doesn't take 2 pages. I have not had the opportunity to submit anything, or comment on the matter for the record.

Thank you, I would do what you say but, I didn't tell anyone what happened because it's embarrassing. I don't want them to know the situation I am in. I can tell it here because no one knows me here and I need to figure out how to handle it without compromising my integrity even though the court system seems to lack it.
Thanks again


edit on 14-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)


My husband was a cop for 10 years and I worked for attorneys for over 25 years (though not a lot of criminal law, I did do a lot of family law and saw a considerable amount involving domestic disturbances/disputes that factored heavily in); and, while you might not like what I'm about to say, I'm going to say it anyway: It IS *usually* the case that if someone doesn't want to tell what they did/what happened because it's "too embarrassing," then chances are they did, in fact, violate the law in some way - even if the violator was unaware that they were violating the law at the time of the offense. Ignorance of the law is never considered a valid excuse by cops, attorneys or judges and judges will instruct juries that it is not a valid excuse.

NOT saying that's what happened in your case; just saying that's very typical of a situation such as you describe.

If you've been the victim of domestic abuse, and if you are NOT guilty of any misconduct whatsoever, contact all the local (meaning within a 50 mile or so radius) Shelters for Abused Women. Typically, they have a lot of referral attorneys with low fees and/or who will take payments and they sometimes even know of 2 or 3 attorneys who need to do some pro bono (free) work. Almost every state requires licensed attorneys to do 'x' number of hours of pro bono work per year and they tend to volunteer in the areas of abused women and the elderly.

If you are too embarrassed to tell your attorney everything you did, then you're going to have to go with 'no contest' and consider it a lesson learned. Then, put the event behind you, but never forget the lesson.

Hang your "integrity" if it's a matter of keeping yourself clean of a criminal record! Your integrity will recover; a criminal record is forever and could affect your ability to get a good job for the rest of your life.

My heart goes out to you but my experience tells me that you might be guiltier than you believe yourself to be.
I do wish you the best of luck.



posted on Jul, 15 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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If you are too embarrassed to tell your attorney everything you did, then you're going to have to go with 'no contest' and consider it a lesson learned. Then, put the event behind you, but never forget the lesson.
reply to post by SeesFar
 


No, I actually typed up the complete event and included every detail that eventually led to my guy calling the police. I included all of my words and reactions as the events unfolded. I highlighted in red the areas that could be confirmed through phone records. I really don't see anything in the criminal code that can be put on my actions other than disorderly conduct and even that isn't really accurate because I was only reacting and in a position that I couldn't leave the scene. Corner a cat and you get scratched kind of thing.

So far, the only person who seems to think there is a crime on my part is the prosecutor and for some reason my lawyer is angry I won't plea for a "deferred" and fines. Every cop who has been involved other than the arresting officer, says this should not have happened to me, that it is wrong.




Hang your "integrity" if it's a matter of keeping yourself clean of a criminal record! Your integrity will recover; a criminal record is forever and could affect your ability to get a good job for the rest of your life.


Well actually this is the main problem. Integrity is important, and we ought to hold our justice system responsible when it does the wrong thing. It's job is to seek justice not disregard the facts in order glean fines for their coffer. How would I be supporting a just society by submitting to a system that does not do what it claims it is intended to do?
edit on 15-7-2012 by ScatterBrain because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2012 @ 11:07 AM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


Then the only option you really have left is to work diligently to seek out a private attorney who will take your case and ditch the public defender. You can also file charges against the Public Defender with your State Bar Association - that doesn't mean they'll DO anything, but the charges will be filed and you'll feel as though you've been proactive in your own interests.

If you feel so strongly that you are in the right, then act as strongly as you feel in righting the wrong you believe has been done to you.

Unfortunately, there are no easy or inexpensive answers. =(

I hope that justice is properly served and i hope that your ribs recover soon. As difficult as this situation is for you it will eventually pass, one way or the other; and, though it may not seem like it now, you'll recover both physically, mentally and emotionally. Remain strong and be proactive.



posted on Jul, 17 2012 @ 10:51 AM
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I hope that justice is properly served and i hope that your ribs recover soon. As difficult as this situation is for you it will eventually pass, one way or the other; and, though it may not seem like it now, you'll recover both physically, mentally and emotionally. Remain strong and be proactive.
reply to post by SeesFar
 


Thank you, my ribs are better, it only hurts when I move certain ways now lol... I think the whole event just surprised me, I had no clue people could just be accused of something and be treated in such a way without anything to indicate guilt. Yes, this will pass... the next hearing is this coming Monday, I understand they scheduled my accusers hearing to be at the same time. I am hoping that the court will confront the accusations with all parties present (as I said, I am not familiar with how this works). I have already got over what my guy did to me, I know people do things out of fear and anger that they don't intend to do. I just hope the hearing makes him accountable for those actions and he takes responsibility as well. I think that is what should happen, we will see what actually happens.
Thanks for your kind words



posted on Aug, 14 2012 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by ScatterBrain
 


I thought in case anyone was curious as to how this issue has played out that I might write an update.

The last hearing was again changed. I think it proper that the delays should end so I requested a trial. The public defender filed as I requested. Not long after, I received a note from the public defender that says the court has scheduled the jury trial for a date in which she in unavailable, so she filed for a continuance. She tells me that she also requested another pre-trial with the judge on August 20th. I am embarrassed that I can't think of the purpose for this action (another pre-trial). My son says this is actually good. I see it as a further delay. Might someone who understands the legal system help me to understand what is going on? My public defender says she does not have time for this pre-trial on the 20th but says she will notify me once it is received from the court. So, I am with the understanding that I will be in court without representation...is this normal? I would ask my public defender to explain but, I do not expect a response, it has not been the pattern. Any insight is appreciated ,ty.



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