Swearing should be allowed on ATS

reply to post by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Death_Kron

Not at all. I speak in real life like a trooper and every second word of mine is an expletive,

lmao.

Maybe I wasn't too clear.

......if you can't make your point without resorting to insults....

I didn't necessarily mean that you personally, would be offended. I just meant that in that particular comment, it seemed like you were basically equating profanity to insults, as if profanity is always insulting. That's how I took it anyways.

Some people actually do feel that way, and view it as if every time profanity is used within their presence, you are being directly disrespectful to them. A personal insult.

With those who have spoken out against the right/privilege to use "taboo" language on the grounds that it is a sign of ignorance or lack of intelligence, I am afraid I must respectfully disagree. Being a person of high intelligence (who also happens to use profanity sometimes in private conversation) I can and must concede that while you are not WHOLLY RIGHT, there is some merit in your view.

It is true that sometimes people of lesser intelligence use profanity as a "replacement" when they can't come up with more intelligent/accurate/whatever wording. However, it is my belief that this is more likely to happen within the context of a heated conversation or debate. This actually brings things back to the OP('s real point) and back on topic.

It is trolling / argumentativeness / inflammatory-disrespectful speech that we should focus on moderating.

I understand that some would consider the existence or display of "profane" words themselves to be an act of disrespect. To this I would say, respectfully, that in most of the real world adults are allowed to speak freely providing they do not incite crime / hate, just as adults are free to make the choice to NOT listen to or read material that they find objectionable. That is what makes freedom so great, when it's practiced properly. No one forces anyone to do anything they don't want to, nor restricts the free actions of others.... ah, if only reality were utopian, eh?

The censoring of "taboo" speech is a restriction of the free actions of others, whereas if free speech were allowed in all forms, you would STILL have the choice to not look/read/listen, if you found it objectionable. Those who advocate censorship of profanity seem to value this, and one of the most common (and probably best) arguments I have seen relates to the quality of material put forth by the potential potty-mouths. The theory being that forums where profanity is allowed tend to attract a lower quality of member or otherwise encourage a lower quality of posting. Being fair, I must concede to the fact that there seems to be SOME truth in this. I think this is actually partly a simple case of monkey-see, monkey-do. Most people in most situations will modulate their speech patterns (to one degree or another) to more closely match that of the peer group, IME.

I have, however, seen forums where profanity is not expressly forbidden per the site's TOS, however, because of the quality of membership, users tended to self regulate, and those who frequently used vulgar speech for no reason were given reminders, suggestions, and guided toward speaking in a more mature and enlightened manner. I think that is really the right way to go.

Another factor is that some intelligent people who understand the power of taboo vocabulary will make infrequent but pointed use of some of these powerful words, in illustrating points in civil debate or essay. I consider myself such a person. You may want to avoid SOME of my posts on other sites. Sorry. Most of the time, highly intelligent and respectful people will NOT use vulgar vocabulary to outright insult others. The smartest of us slippery, silver-tongued cunning linguists know that such words usually detract from the overall effect of a heated argument / flame-war, which are almost ALWAYS won with pure wit-- not words of blunt, brute emotion.

On the other hand, a word like "retard" used in a derogatory fashion is inexcusably inflammatory in any civil discussion forum (save a "flame" sub-forum, where they exist...)

To be clear: Also, like the OP., I feel that blatant inflammatory profanity might as well be allowed, so long as others are allowed to troll, harass, flame, name-call, or disrespect others in any open manner. That truly is inexcusable, and is truly counter-productive to intelligent discussion.

Also, while I don't think it's the end of the world that profanity is restricted, I think it wouldn't hurt to have relaxed rules in one or two forums.

Originally posted by mckeesport
Due to a misunderstanding of the point I am trying to convey, I do not actually think profanity should be allowed here on ATS. I am stating that it might as well be in comparison in regards to the rise in personal attacks by some people that do not agree or share your view,


The use of profanity on ATS might as well be allowed. I see ATS getting progressively worse. I see a rise in attacks where what is being said is worse than profanity. There is a growing amount of keyboard warriors and trolls putting out more trash talk instead of actual legit replies to posts.

Earlier, I was referred to as being retarded. To me, that was more offensive than any combo of profanity. My sister died when I was 12 from complications due to mental retardation and it is a word that I despise. And for you trolls waiting to pounce on that, it is not hereditary and does not run in my family. If this was a open event hosted in a public forum, would you call me that in person? I have a sneaking suspicion that the answer would be no.

The constant attacks here are attributed to the DUNNING - KRUGER EFFECT Its no longer acceptable to have your theory or opinion along with the chance that the other person just might be right. It is not acceptable to believe Nibiru or Planet-x just might be real or that Dr.Greer just might have talked to people that know the truth or gave up his medical profession in persuit of what he feels is the truth. Instead of bashing insulting peoples views, ideas, thoughts or opinions, go beat your wife or kids or neighbor, tough guy.

Not one letter of this is typed with a violin playing or a tear, it just sucks to see something good being systematically taken apart thread by thread. My advice, get a job, a girlfriend, then again, Trolls dont work well with others.....

edit on 13-7-2012 by mckeesport because: Misunderstanding

I would hate to be characterized as a TROLL seeing that I don't hide under a bridge waiting for the weak and meek to pass over only to jump out and grab them. Besides, I'm much better looking than that.

The Dunning-Kruger Effect does not apply to everyone and to seemingly say it applies to anyone would be harsh judgment on them. I don't think you want your KARMA kicking you in the rear end 10 times over for that.

As far as allowing profanity to be used on these boards, well that's not going to happen. People need to learn PROPER ENGLISH and should not have to resort to using colourful metaphores in order to get their point across. Name calling should not occur either, but it does. Some people have thicker skins than others. I don't mind calling a spade a spade when necessary. But for the most part, we all need to learn that its ok to agree, disagree or agree to disagree and no one should be booted from the system for it unless its really out of control. But, there are reasons for rules and we all must adhere to them or get the boot.

Nuff Said !

I agree... but how about no bashing, cutting up, arguing like children, put downs, calling people crazy-schitzo-lost-stupid etc... that seems to be the trend on Ats in the past couple years. People here dont understand how to be civil and kind to another. Just because the person you dont agree with isnt in front of you, doesnt mean you need to let them no in a negative way..

There is ALOT of memebrs who cut people up because they dont understand them or agree with what they are saying... and if that is how you talk to people in person, then shame on you, and you need some work to do as a human being.

I understand this is the internet and you feel safe sitting in your chair, bed, couch etc... but your more of a coward talking crap about someone and cutting them up over a computer screeen, when I garuntee those who talk negaitive and cut up, would never dare speak like that to someones face. And if you do, you need to grow up and get out of mommies house..

Swearing is the least of worries... its peoples feelings which should come first. And cutting someone up is hurting someones feelings.. just because you dont have much of a heart, doesnt mean the person you are shutting down doesnt.

Just expanding on the OP

~ Love is an art

Originally posted by iwilliam
To be clear: Also, like the OP., I feel that blatant inflammatory profanity might as well be allowed, so long as others are allowed to troll, harass, flame, name-call, or disrespect others in any open mannerr. That truly is inexcusable, and is truly counter-productive to intelligent discussion.

Also, while I don't think it's the end of the world that profanity is restricted, I think it wouldn't hurt to have relaxed rules in one or two forums.

This of course implies that the things I've highlighted in your quote are allowed here on ATS with or without profanity, which they not. Some things may slip through now and then, but blatant insults, harassment, flaming, name-calling, and trolling can only be dealt with properly when they are reported to the moderators.

Actually cussing is allowed on ATS, ya'll just don't hear it when I am swearing at you through my monitor.


Peace Out,

RT

reply to post by Realtruth

Is this one of those situations: "if no one is there to hear the words, did they actually exist?"

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by Realtruth

 

Is this one of those situations: "if no one is there to hear the words, did they actually exist?"

I heard that!

And yes they exist, you just can't see them until you have an OBE.

Originally posted by FraggleRock

Originally posted by iwilliam
To be clear: Also, like the OP., I feel that blatant inflammatory profanity might as well be allowed, so long as others are allowed to troll, harass, flame, name-call, or disrespect others in any open mannerr. That truly is inexcusable, and is truly counter-productive to intelligent discussion.

Also, while I don't think it's the end of the world that profanity is restricted, I think it wouldn't hurt to have relaxed rules in one or two forums.

This of course implies that the things I've highlighted in your quote are allowed here on ATS with or without profanity, which they not. Some things may slip through now and then, but blatant insults, harassment, flaming, name-calling, and trolling can only be dealt with properly when they are reported to the moderators.

I've seen a couple instances where there was an insult or perceived insult and I didn't see anything done about it. Not many, of course, and I'm unable to provide an example, atm. If you recall, the Original Poster here states a case involving use of the word "retard," so it DOES happen.

Also, I have seen many cases that while perhaps not blatantly violating the rules, a member will ridicule the position of another in such a way that puts the other person down or may seem insulting. I think I've seen this happen most often so far with religious/spiritual/metaphysical stuff.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


Mis read your quote in all fairness, I understand your point after reading it again and I agree.

Originally posted by FraggleRock

Originally posted by iwilliam
To be clear: Also, like the OP., I feel that blatant inflammatory profanity might as well be allowed, so long as others are allowed to troll, harass, flame, name-call, or disrespect others in any open mannerr. That truly is inexcusable, and is truly counter-productive to intelligent discussion.

Also, while I don't think it's the end of the world that profanity is restricted, I think it wouldn't hurt to have relaxed rules in one or two forums.

This of course implies that the things I've highlighted in your quote are allowed here on ATS with or without profanity, which they not. Some things may slip through now and then, but blatant insults, harassment, flaming, name-calling, and trolling can only be dealt with properly when they are reported to the moderators.

Now that I've spent some recent time reading and posting quite heavily, I must say I have seen some of the things I mention above quite a lot, in some threads. Maybe not outright trolling and harassment. ATS seems pretty good about that. But so far as members disrespecting other members, or using tones that could be seen as offensive, hostile, or derogatory in replies on topics they disagree with and / or feel passionate about.

Usually the language is pretty PG-rated, but IMO calling someone "stupid" is an insult or disrespect. Especially if worded that way: "You are stupid." "Anyone who believes / thinks / says that must be stupid," is a somewhat more passive-aggressive and clever version of the former.

"Your idea is stupid," is a first-cousin which is borderline acceptable, but still not wholly polite.

And so on...