Any tips on house buying?

This thread will no doubt piss off sellers, so if you're a seller I probably would not read what follows. I have been talking with some friends and this idea seems to be working. Find a house that you like (I probably will be in the market at the end of the year). Given the current financial and economic situation in todays world, many sellers, ie flippers are dillusional - thus prices should reflect a more common sense approach. Anyways, getting back to subject, it was suggested that when you find a house you like, offer close to or what they are asking, thus locking you into contract. Bring in your own inspector, who by the way is ANAL, and will find every legitimate problem, etc. Hopefully he comes up with a list that will offset the price by tens of thousands. Counter with an offer significantly lower based on the appraisal. The beauty about his method is you force the seller to really rethink the asking price, this is NOT 2005!! At the minimum it ties them up for 6 weeks, and from what I understand 99% of the time the seller will bend on the price, to a more economically inline value. What are thoughts on this tactic? I don't think its dishonest, but more prudent in todays economic world. Thoughts?

check stuff like electrics/gas heating/roof as they're always high expense stuff and some survey guy not giving a crap could miss an obvious point that could cost you loads to fix

jump on the floorboards...if they bounce then they may need sorting out and if theres loads of layers of carpet think the same

but the main thing is to ask yourself all the stupid questions such as are the electrics upto spec? if not how much to fix or the heating system may be ok as it stands but the moment you want to do anything with it its going to have to be replaced to meet regs etc

check any legal restrictions on the usage of the property as well

trust no one but yourself and what you see with your own eyes and also make sure what you buy is what you see as i've seen people herein the UK take everything from the fuseboard onward when moving house

reply to post by Maxatoria



Thanks!! Thats why I like the idea of a VERY ANAL inspector to go over the house with a fine tooth comb. I have seen some homes that were bought, more than likely by flippers, for lets say 150K, and then resold for 250K. Its like WTF did you do, except probably cosmetic bull$hit. I really think many people have the grandiose idea that house prices should still reflect 2005-2006 peak levels, which is insane. My buddy is not a flipper and has been looking for a house for a long time. I know he tried this technique and it worked. He found a house he liked, put in an offer at asking, contingent upon an inspection. Inspector was ANAL, found about 100K in repair, the house was already beautiful, but the inspector really went through every potential issue. Home owners were pissed as my buddy countered an offer 100K less. They said no. He said fine, we are still in contract for 6 weeks which means that the house is listed as pending, and no one will put in an offer during this time so the seller is losing time on the sale. PLUS, depending on the State and County, the inspectors report can become public knowledge, and open for disclosure for potential future clients. The seller came back several days later and countered. In the end, he got the house for about 80K less than asking. Not too bad...

Check for back taxes. Also, where i live you can go to the township or city's building and check all records back til like the 70s. For anyones house. i did this for the hell of it once when i found out a house i grew up in was condemned. Shows all building permits issued in the last few decades, condemnations, etc. One thing to remember.....just because a building permit was issued does not mean the work was performed......

A bar near me, with 5 apartments in it, and lots of brand new equipment (taps, computers, etc) was for sale. Qsking price was 700,000. They were condemned and lost their liqour license over stupid crap. I could have lived there for the price of a house cause they sold it for 130k. Omg..... i missed out big....

That seems like a good way to get the seller to rethink things. I am in the market for a house aswell as trying to sell mine. I have seen many homes that are way overpriced. Good deals can be found, but it takes some effort on your part. I would asy avoid all short sales unless you are prepared to wait 6 months or more for a reply from the lienholder bank. Find a good agent to show you around, I hear there are some left out there. The agent trying to sell my home, I would not include in that category of "good". I am fully aware that housing prices have dropped, and so are most homeowners. Many are willing to negotiate if offers are coming in. Alot of the problems I am seeing is with the real estate agents themselves. Many are very lazy, and unwilling to do much to get the sale. Others want to get rich of of the next sale so they keep that prce high. Don't forget that they work on comission. Good luck in your search, don't forget to ask if there is anything they need ot disclose, such as asbestos containing material, lead paint, was it a meth lab?

reply to post by borracho



I believe you made the best point, the biggest PROBLEM is the RE agent feeding the seller/buyer a load of bull$hit, why? Because they benefit from the higher sell price via commission. I had an RE agent show me a house that was cut into the side of the mountain. I looked at the structure and it was starting to crack, ie. laws of angle of repose. I indicated that the house was not practicle as the land was not as well - what the hell am I supposed to do with land (3 acres) on the side of a 60 degree sloped mountain?????? I want useable land!!! The RE agent, says, "Its all about location"... F you b1tch!!!!!!!!!! I got rid of her and am using someone else that is on the same page as me...

Location location location lol. I hate rich people by the way

My cousin was a house inspector for many years, His background is in engineering. As you might suspect, he was very good at his job, but he also did not cheat and find things wrong that weren't. Indeed, if he had, he would be liable. In every report he had a large amount of boilerplate text spelling out what the paramaters of his inspection were and offering no guarantees. I have no problem with you wanting an anal inspector, but if by using the word "anal" you really mean ssomeone who will exaggerate problems, you may be out of luck. In most states inspectors are state licensed. You should expect them to be thorough, but not expect them to give you an advantage. Besides, as a homeowner they have the right to refuse the deal as well.

I've been on both sides of this issue as a buyer and a seller and I must say that neither side is all that much fun.

Originally posted by schuyler
My cousin was a house inspector for many years, His background is in engineering. As you might suspect, he was very good at his job, but he also did not cheat and find things wrong that weren't. Indeed, if he had, he would be liable. In every report he had a large amount of boilerplate text spelling out what the paramaters of his inspection were and offering no guarantees. I have no problem with you wanting an anal inspector, but if by using the word "anal" you really mean ssomeone who will exaggerate problems, you may be out of luck. In most states inspectors are state licensed. You should expect them to be thorough, but not expect them to give you an advantage. Besides, as a homeowner they have the right to refuse the deal as well.

I've been on both sides of this issue as a buyer and a seller and I must say that neither side is all that much fun.

Not really, anal is in by the book. For example, I know some inspectors that are ex army corp of engineers. "By the book", if they so chose, they can literally measure the distance between nail heads on a wall, offsets, material thickness, wire composition, etc. The homeowner can refuse the deal, but under contract they will be obliged for a set period of time. I'm not trying to be dishonest, I am trying to be fair on price, however..and lets face it, most of the sellers today are still living in bliss...

reply to post by pityocamptes


I'm not a profesional closer by any means but here's what I would consider.

Learn as much as you can about the city or county it's in. What supports the area economically? Does it have a history of stability? How is the employment situation? Natural desasters the norm?

Location of the house. Is it in a flood zone? Is the development it's in stable and relatively new? How are the neighbors?

House itself. Check it from ground to shingles, and then have a profesional do a home inspection. Make sure he takes you through and explains what he's doing and looking for. Check anything that's included like furniture, appliances, heating and air. Take into account any natural gas appliances, or any other oddities. The price of gas does go up. Age of the house, septic tank and laws regarding that if it's not city water.

Learn as much about local law as you can, and meet people in the area. Listen to an old man with many stories if you can find one.

Thanks. I think another key factor, from what I am being told is do NOT buy a house less than 10 years old, preferably 15 years or older. Most of the work done in the past ten years was shoddy, and by unskilled people who passed the relaxed state inspection guidelines. I was told to find inspectors that are HATED by the RE industry - those are the best ones...

if you find a house you like....visit it at all hours of the day and night.....that is the only way to get a feel for the neighborhood....contact the local PD and ask about crime and the neighborhood...

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
if you find a house you like....visit it at all hours of the day and night.....that is the only way to get a feel for the neighborhood....contact the local PD and ask about crime and the neighborhood...

Thats actually a good call. This, imo, is probably the best advice. Nothing worse than buying a house in this market, and finding out that crime is high, or the neighbors party their a$$ off every weekend. This is where I am at currently. Our neighborhood "used" to be nice, but after the past several years of giving loans to every swinging broke dick, we got some real doozy of neighbors. Loud music, many don't work (probably involved in drugs), and their yards look like $hit. The only thing going for me is that I do not owe anything on my house, and I am more than willing to walk away with less $$$ for a quick sell. Housing in my book is NOT an investment, but a commodity, you use, move on... just like a car, or anything else that is finite. This is why I am looking at older more stable neighborhoods, not really influenced by the housing pump and dump...

reply to post by pityocamptes


If you go with an old house things like lead pipes, asbestos, cracked foundations, failing outdated appliances, and delapidated overflowing septic tanks can cost a ton of money. Best to be super careful regardless of age.

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by pityocamptes

 

If you go with an old house things like lead pipes, asbestos, cracked foundations, and delapidated overflowing septic tanks can cost a ton of money. Best to be super careful regardless of age.

Thanks. I agree. My definition of "older" is probably a home constructed about 15 years ago. From what I understand, any structural issues will have manifested themselves by this time. My bro is a super for a industrial/commercial builder and he has indicated that homes made in the past 5 years are absolute $hit. Here recently they worked on completing a residential development that started in 2005 but was put on halt for several years due to builder going out of business. He indicated that the houses basically rotted in the sun. When they went to finish the houses he explained to the builder that 95% of the houses needed roofs to be replaced etc. Builder said no, and that inspectors would pass. While finishing the roofs, many of the workers actually fell through the roofs as they were rotted. ...and in fact, the inspector PASSED every single unit. Now that is BS!!! So from my contacts, I at least know what subdivisions/neighborhoods to avoid...

Originally posted by pityocamptes
Not really, anal is in by the book. For example, I know some inspectors that are ex army corp of engineers. "By the book", if they so chose, they can literally measure the distance between nail heads on a wall, offsets, material thickness, wire composition, etc. The homeowner can refuse the deal, but under contract they will be obliged for a set period of time. I'm not trying to be dishonest, I am trying to be fair on price, however..and lets face it, most of the sellers today are still living in bliss...

In the deals I have done the home inspection does not change the price. If the inspection turns up a fault, the homeowner has the option to fix the fault or refuse the deal. Now there is a certain amount of pressure on the homeowner to maybe strike a deal: "If I don't have to fix this, I'll lower the price." but the homeowner is not obligated to lower the price if a defect is found.

At least in my state it works this way: You sign an "earnest money" agreement with a negotiated price up front, put a few thousaand in escrow, and the earnest money agreement governs the terms of the sale. If it says, "Subject to satisfactory home inspection by licensed home inspector," then there's your handle, but it also works as a 'deal breaker' for both of you. Unless the homeowner is willing to negotiate with you over a material defect, the deal is over.

But even if you have an 'anal' home inspector, you can't be unreasonable. If a home inspector told me the nails in the wall were too far apart, I would tell him to go pound sand. That's not a material defect. On the other hand, if a window had a broken seal, thus nullifying the R-factor, I'd be willing to replace it or give a few hundred credit toward doing it. That's reasonable, but the credit would not exceed the cost of the repair.

I agree with you completely about homeowners being delusional about the worth of their homes in a declining market. A lot of people have gotten themselves into trouble on home ownersip, and though we always have the banks to blame, there is a lot of greed to spread around. I thank God I'm not in a position to need to worry about this stuff. I don;t consider myself smart, just lucky.

there is an old Cary Grant movie everybody should watch before buying a house. The name slips my mind, but its dead on and way more funny than "Money Pit"