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Does God contradict himself?

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posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:38 PM
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This is an interesting question i will offer to the comunity... Anyone from any belief system or religious affiliation can answer freely...

IF God created everything... are there contradictions in his creation?

con·tra·dic·tion

1. A combination of statements, ideas, or features of a situation that are opposed to one another.
2. A person, thing, or situation in which inconsistent elements are present.

This is basically a logical error... 2 + 2 = 7 type thing...

Knowing this are there contradictions in Nature?

Are there contradictions in physics?

How about math?

Most of us know of the contradictions within religious scriptures... many are blatantly obvious... but does the creator, the one perfect being, create contradictions within his creation... or is creation perfectly logical?

discussion open...

Be nice people... Notice i said Discussion



edit on 13-7-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:50 PM
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Doesn't god say in the bible he created us in our image, another contradiction if you ask me, saying there is more than one god!
edit on 13/7/2012 by DeyTookErJeobs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:54 PM
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Your definitions of contradiction are pretty broad and would require further elucidation. What does it mean to be inconsistent? What is an element? I would first settle on a specific form of contradiction you wish to explore and define it precisely.

For example, you might settle on logical contradiction which holds that a proposition and it's negation are both held as true.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 


You can't really argue with the definition of contradiction...otherwise, you just prove it.

With that said, the problem arises when you claim the creator is a "perfect" being creating a "perfect" world. Which means that either we were intended to act like a swarm of moronic monkeys, or he made a mistake. If we assume it was intentional, then what's the purpose?



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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Im not looking for an expounded definition...

Im looking for examples of contradictions within "the creation"... meaning illogical happenings in laymans terms.




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Even if you dont beleive in God, nobody can dispute the fact that we were created. So something is our God. Could be all powerful "man", could be aliens, God could be the big bang. God could be the universe. But I guess it doesnt really matter who or what created us, but we, as in life, have been created, and we should respect the fact that something did it.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by DeyTookErJeobs
Doesn't god say in the bible he created us in our image, another contradiction if you ask me, saying there is more than one god!
edit on 13/7/2012 by DeyTookErJeobs because: (no reason given)


He was speaking to the angels above, not another God. I don't see how people are drawing this conclusion. He was speaking of the form of the ones who are above, man took on the form of what above looks like, just without the wings and garments.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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YES is the answer to your question. There are many contradictions, both moral and logical inconsistencies within God's parameters.

The most clear one being that God is about as egotistical and jealous as it comes. If you choose to worship another idol/god based on the many factors that bring you to such a decision, he's jealous enough to say you deserve eternal hell. Similarly if your biological father said if you didn't love him with all your heart, he'd throw you into a brick oven. Would that make you actually love him more or less?? Holding somebody's love for ransom is demented & irrational.

He slaughtered thousands of innocent newborns. Does that make it ok since he's....God? Apparently yes. Apparently mass-murder and genocide is fine so long as God does/orders it.

He created man with foreknowledge of everything that would unfold, and still set their fall up perfectly. Even allowed an evil talking 'snake' into the so-called perfect garden.

These are only a few of the many inconsistencies in a being that's supposed to be perfect and all-loving.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by Raelsatu
 




He slaughtered thousands of innocent newborns. Does that make it ok since he's....God? Apparently yes. Apparently mass-murder and genocide is fine so long as God does/orders it.


I don't understand this one. If Father placed you here, but said ok, it's time to come back. How is this wrong? Man, just puts the weight on how one goes back out. Life here is like a simulation, once you are done, you go back to where you originally was, well at least for some.



He created man with foreknowledge of everything that would unfold, and still set their fall up perfectly. Even allowed an evil talking 'snake' into the so-called perfect garden.


Could it not be to show the others, that they are wrong in setting these parameters up? During the planning of man, others (angels) gave their input on how it should be for man. Instead of saying, no we won't do it like that, he wanted to show them how it should be, by them learning of why it should be that way.
edit on 13-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by theconspirator
 


There is that. But that still doesn't answer the question of "why".



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


It makes sense because essentially, we go to hell if we break any rules, but "God" is allowed to break any and every rule no matter who gets hurt. In fact, he does everything Satan is supposed to do, and yet we consider him the peak of perfection. No wonder Satan is ticked off.

It's called a double standard, and I don't care who's in charge, it freakin' sucks. If our President can't do it, then why can "God"?
edit on 13-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Raelsatu
YES is the answer to your question. There are many contradictions, both moral and logical inconsistencies within God's parameters.

The most clear one being that God is about as egotistical and jealous as it comes. If you choose to worship another idol/god based on the many factors that bring you to such a decision, he's jealous enough to say you deserve eternal hell. Similarly if your biological father said if you didn't love him with all your heart, he'd throw you into a brick oven. Would that make you actually love him more or less?? Holding somebody's love for ransom is demented & irrational.

He slaughtered thousands of innocent newborns. Does that make it ok since he's....God? Apparently yes. Apparently mass-murder and genocide is fine so long as God does/orders it.

He created man with foreknowledge of everything that would unfold, and still set their fall up perfectly. Even allowed an evil talking 'snake' into the so-called perfect garden.

These are only a few of the many inconsistencies in a being that's supposed to be perfect and all-loving.



Fortunatly the God of the OT is not the same as the Father of Jesus...

Jesus vs OT God

And i said specifically there are clear contradictions in scripture... but what about the creation

Is it perfect? even flawless?

Man is obviously flawed... but its not our bodies that are flawed... they work "perfectly"...

Its our thoughts and actions that are flawed




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 




It makes sense because essentially, we go to hell if we break any rules, but "God" is allowed to break any and every rule no matter who gets hurt. It's called a double standard, and I don't care who's in charge, it freakin' sucks. If our President can't do it, then why can "God"?


I see. But, if Father is the one whom placed all here, why can't he bring you back. Look at it like this: You are an astronaut, you put on a spacesuit to go experience space. But, your commander says, it's time to come back. He has an override to reel your suit back in and bring you back to Earth.

Why is it any different for Father?



In fact, he does everything Satan is supposed to do, and yet we consider him the peak of perfection. No wonder Satan is ticked off.


You blame a lot of things on Father, when he sits back and watches. I can see the argument, where you say he sits back. But, to properly administer a test, he can't dip his hand into everything.
edit on 13-7-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


Why is "God" allowed to do everything Satan is supposed to do, and yet when compared with him, Satan is evil and God is good? If we get tempted, it's God testing us. But if we get drunk, it's because the Devil made us do it. I think it's a matter of what happens, and people decide from there who was responsible. If something looks like a lesson, it was God. If it looks like a sin, it was Satan. But if it's an accident, or no one knows, then it was God. We just randomly slap labels on whatever happens, according to how we feel about it.

Where is the sense in that?

I think it's not God or Satan doing anything. I think it's us judging the situation, giving it a sense of reason, so we feel less victimized by the chaos of the universe. When you're in a car that's spinning out, you pretend that you have it under control so that you won't feel so helpless, so that by some unlikely chance, you actually DO have control. But in those cases, it's not you that's in control, it's a more powerful being. Because it's always convenient to have mysterious beings with unearthly power controlling the good and the bad. Gives it an air of predictability, instead of groping in the darkness.
edit on 13-7-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 




Its our thoughts and actions that are flawed


Correct. Yet, many want to blame Father for the actions of others. All he did was setup the environment. It is up to man what to do with it.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


The Father creates us. He gives us free will. He also creates sin, which means that we can do wrong things with that free will. Then, despite giving us free will, he tells us to obey him and resist the sin that HE created, or we'll go to the hell that he created just for that occasion.

Anyone else smell a trap?



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 




Why is "God" allowed to do everything Satan is supposed to do, and yet when compared with him, Satan is evil and God is good? If we get tempted, it's God testing us. But if we get drunk, it's because the Devil made us do it. I think it's a matter of what happens, and people decide from there who was responsible.


I see why you say this. This is because you are told this by others who do not know, and want to blame someone for their own actions. The devil can't make you do anything, just like God can't make you do anything. (As it stands current day), this is how it is setup. You can have influences, but it is ultimately up to you what you decide.



I think it's not God or Satan doing anything. I think it's us judging the situation, giving it a sense of reason, so we feel less victimized by the chaos of the universe. When you're in a car that's spinning out, you pretend that you have it under control so that you won't feel so helpless, so that by some unlikely chance, you actually DO have control.


This is correct. Man is making assumptions on who is doing the actions in the background.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76

I don't understand this one. If Father placed you here, but said ok, it's time to come back. How is this wrong? Man, just puts the weight on how one goes back out. Life here is like a simulation, once you are done, you go back to where you originally was, well at least for some.


The point here is whether or not the morality is consistent. He specifically says "thou shalt not kill", and then on numerous occasions orders people/angels to carry out mass-murder/genocide. Even on children. The father sets the example for his children. God is setting an example of select murder. By his command adulterers should be split open and have their insides trampled upon. Do you think anyone who commits adultery, homosexuality, blasphemy, curses their parents, or violates the Sabbath should be executed?? By Biblical command yes, so let's get the ball rolling shall we?



Could it not be to show the others, that they are wrong in setting these parameters up? During the planning of man, others (angels) gave their input on how it should be for man. Instead of saying, no we won't do it like that, he wanted to show them how it should be, by them learning of why it should be that way.


Sorry I'm not following you on this one. The Garden was supposed to be a place of perfection where two of God's perfect creations could live in bliss forever. But the contradiction is that he ALLOWED a fallen angel (Lucifer) to enter the garden under the guise of a talking snake; as well as [metaphorical] tree of evil. These two things are the primary factors in the setup in the fall of man.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Satan is a mythological scape goat...

IF you get drunk, its not the devil forcing you to get drunk...

YOU are responsible for your own actions ( or lack there of)... Not the devil... not God...

Only you...




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 





The Father creates us. He gives us free will. He also creates sin, which means that we can do wrong things with that free will. Then, despite giving us free will, he tells us to obey him and resist the sin that HE created, or we'll go to the hell that he created just for that occasion.

Anyone else smell a trap?


He didn't create the sin. He created the knowledge of what sin is.



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