Why I Can NOT Imagine Aliens Being Hostile

Ok - I believe that given how big the Universe is and how likely there are trillions upon trillions of planets with life, I would assume that there would be good ones, bad ones, ugly ones, beautiful ones, ones in the stone age, ones who are where we are and can barely get off the planet, ones who can get around, but not far (no FTL technology), ones WITH FTL tech, ones who may be able to open wormholes, and etc.

And everything in-between.

In fact, I can almost guarantee that is the situation. That would mean that Earth may have been noticed (and probably has), but the ones who can really get around (FTL tech, opening wormholes, etc) would pose no threat because they would be emotionally evolved as well as intellectually.

So, a lot of variables, but that's what I really think.

I also think that the real sightings are just "tourists".

And maybe the Greys do exist - who knows. But we can safely assume, at least, that we are not alone in this huge Universe and possible Multiverse...

reply to post by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Blue Shift

It's because it makes it a whole lot easier for us to buy and sell things. That's what I'm saying. It's ultimately easier for us to go into a store and give somebody a little money for a gallon of milk than it is to get our gun and go take the milk by force. Our willingness to cooperate with each other has allowed us to build a population of over 7 billion people on the Earth. We haven't become that much less aggressive. We've just channeled it into more productive endeavors. Hopefully an alien species would have found out that same thing. Trade is more efficient than war.

We still beat, rape, rob, & kill each other, on daily basis. We also lock up our own kind in cages, which is just one of things that makes us especially unique.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

But just go out and drive on any street. We all got together and built those streets. And we all agreed which side to drive on, and what the turn signals mean, and what kind of fuel to use.

Which side is that? Did we all agree upon the left side, or the right side?

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by Sw1tch3d
I just hope there is something to being advanced in your place in the cosmos, and would have effect on how you would act towards other species, even less advanced than yourselves. But, it may also be possible to be that advanced and still have the need to do what you need to do in order to protect / advance your own; maybe a dying world of their own? I would imagine it would be entirely situational to whatever species it may be.

It all boils down to what you need and how you get it. Maybe desperate aliens on a dying world would be forced into a position of having to take another planet from some other species to survive. But again, if you have the kind of power available to you to fly from one star to another (and that's a lot of power), and then have a good chance of conquering it once you get there, then you can use that same power to terraform a planet from scratch and not muscle in on anybody else's territory. Or you could build a ship big enough for everyone to live in. Or a ring world or Dyson sphere. If you needed gold, you could make it yourself. Or mine it from asteroids or collapsed stars.

I guess the danger is that the aliens would have just enough power to get here but not enough to make all the things they needed. That we'd be pretty well balanced, power-wise. But in that case, trade and cooperation would still be the most economically efficient way to go. I could see us willing to trade some of our water for a few of their speedy space ships. Or something else we have a lot of that they need. It would be a lot cheaper than fighting for it. Peaceful co-existence, not because we're loving Space Brothers or any of that garbage, but because we want to make a buck or two.

Great point. I guess if you had the vast technology to travel that distance, you could probably very well have the means to do something about a dying planet. Maybe the whole idea of being confined to a single planet is primitive? And surely in that case, we would have atleast something in quantities that they would need to continue to exist, and at that point all the energy needed for a hostile takeover very well would defeat it's own purpose. I could see it happen. Happens all the time right here on Earth. Nations trade everyday for what each other needs. Many don't particularly consider each other Brothers, but it's the most efficient way for mutual survival. Very possible.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


Here is a one stop event to quench your thirst for knowledge on the subject.

One of the best links I can give you, not that I believe you checked out the threads I gave in the last link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


I'm just guessing by the fact that nearly all scifi alien invasion films depict a colonization scenario that colonization is our biggest fear. A group of aliens that looks at us the way look at ants. Not because they are violent or evil, but because they feel entitled to what we have.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

Here is a one stop event to quench your thirst for knowledge on the subject.

One of the best links I can give you, not that I believe you checked out the threads I gave in the last link.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

You have a nasty habit of making assumptions. I read them both.

Assuming ET visitation is happening, then it is almost a given they have an agenda that is obviously to their benefit. If they could get here from there, then they are clearly thousands perhaps millions of years more advanced than us. If you think they are here to save us from ourselves, then you are deluding yourself. You don't get to be the top dog on your planet by being overly benevolent at the cost of your own self interests. And we know from the animal kingdom, that intelligence is usually the sign of a predator.

Originally posted by ErroneousDylan

Originally posted by Drunkenparrot
what if?

Human motivations are mental motivations. If they have a consciousness, they aren't different than us.

If that is what you want to believe however such is not the case amongst the various species of Earth which are genetically related and share a common environment.

The word of the day.... Anthropomorphism

Anthropomorphism or personification is any attribution of human characteristics (or characteristics assumed to belong only to humans) to other animals, non-living things, phenomena, material states, objects or abstract concepts, such as organizations, governments, spirits or deities...

In the scientific community, using anthropomorphic language that suggests animals have intentions and emotions has been deprecated as indicating a lack of objectivity. Biologists have avoided the assumption that animals share any of the same mental, social, and emotional capacities of humans, relying instead on the strictly observable evidence...

In 1927 Ivan Pavlov wrote that animals should be considered "without any need to resort to fantastic speculations as to the existence of any possible subjective states".More recently, The Oxford companion to animal behaviour (1987) advises "one is well advised to study the behaviour rather than attempting to get at any underlying emotion".

reply to post by Diablos

they are clearly thousands perhaps millions of years more advanced than us

There are 1001 scenarios that do not require them to be more advanced then us, not even to have a much more advanced tech than we have. The chance that the technology is below ours is dependent only on the distance that is needed for travel. But one does not need to be technological advanced to use advanced technology, only to create it. There are even low tech ways to cross vast distances...

In the rest I agree with you. I go one step further, to state that events so far do not support a benevolent alien species visiting us, and in fact events demonstrate that they have a really damaging effect on our society. If they are really here, the result of lack of evidence and factual steps to enable proper study indicates that if not outright collusion that we've already been taken over

I think there are good ones. I think there are bad ones. Lots in between too. Kind of like humans.

They are already here. The best we can hope for is that our particular country (which ever one you live in that is yours to claim) isn't in cohorts with oppressive or draconian like factions.

Namaira

reply to post by antar


Sorry this is shamelessly off-topic, but thanks antar for posting those two links to your older threads, the quality of threads in those days were so much better, wish ATS was like that now, im gonna check out the archives, for some hidden treasure

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


They can be advanced they can live in a utopia but that does not mean they are peaceful......

none of that concludes they are peaceful.... they maybe united and peaceful with each other but being advanced in technology and as a society is not exclusive to being peaceful.

they can be warlike with others not with themselves. What if their motivation for advancement is domination and war of other planets or galaxies.

all that you have stated is opinion.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


You mean all 3? The last one is one I highly recommend as a starting point for non- bias research and reading material. It can grant you many different angles as you progress towards that final decision about life other than our own.

Good luck in your quest.

reply to post by Diablos


Perhaps it is not that they are so much visitors of our planet but the stewards until such time as we learn to stand up on our own and walk.

reply to post by thedoctorswife


Your words are appreciated. You know whats funny is that even back then people were saying that the good ole days are a bygone era here at ATS, and so I always wished I had had the courage to have jumped in much earlier too.

The archives are truly the greatest treasure trove anyone could expect to find.

Originally posted by Blue Shift
once you solve the problem of unlimited power, you don't have to be efficient, and you can concentrate on killing everyone who doesn't believe in the same god you do

A very astute point regarding the post-efficiency civilisation

Analogously speaking, if we humans engineered a source of unlimited energy then our civilisation would be transformed. Most people would be relieved from the burdens of poverty, the working day would be shortened or even eradicated for many people, and industrial production may devolve into a range of hobbyist pursuits, once we have our matter compilers, like with the open source software movement

I wonder what would be the social impact of these changes. Perhaps a greater focus on arts and crafts, friends and family, ideas and philosophy. Certainly we would become exponentially more populous, due to Malthusian economics, and consequently begin to terraform and colonise previously uninhabitable global regions. Once we have over-populated our entire planet then perhaps we begin to colonise the other planetoids and outer space within our solar system

Then I guess we begin to look further afield, at nearby solar systems, and endeavour to engineer some means of rapid transport between our interstellar outposts. The need for superluminal travel becomes increasingly imperative, as more people inhabit these other solar systems, and perhaps eventually we discover some means of near-instantaneous space travel

Once superluminal travel is prolific, and everybody is doing it, what effective measures would be available to control the use of that technology towards primitive alien civilisations. Certainly the potential for human rogue factions, operating in breach of law and ethics, is entirely tangible

Originally posted by quantumfluctuation

Originally posted by Blue Shift
once you solve the problem of unlimited power, you don't have to be efficient, and you can concentrate on killing everyone who doesn't believe in the same god you do

A very astute point regarding the post-efficiency civilisation

Analogously speaking, if we humans engineered a source of unlimited energy then our civilisation would be transformed. Most people would be relieved from the burdens of poverty, the working day would be shortened or even eradicated for many people, and industrial production may devolve into a range of hobbyist pursuits, once we have our matter compilers, like with the open source software movement

Says who? Compared to ancient times, the energy contained in liquid hydrocarbons is enormous, but does it eliminate the burdens of poverty and is the working day shortened? Sure is, if you're rich.

Sure ET societies would be different? Why would the powerful share with the powerless when they could just employ the latter to make more money/resources/whatever for the former? Who will own the "unlimited energy" machines? Who puts in the capital to build them?

There will always be limits to something that ET wants and some ET people will get lots of it, and others won't and they'll have to work to try to get a little.

Again, compared to ancient times, most people in a developed country have reasonably equal access to clean water---that was a big deal for most of human civilization. And now it's generally solved with a moderate monthly payment. Has that stopped the need for people to work their butts off? No.

People (human or ET) who want MORE and are ambitious will overrule the poeple who are content and want to share.

Assumptions that mean they would be peaceful:

- The more advanced you are the more likely you are spiritually advanced too.

- There is nothing we have that they want (to take away from us). Taking a cow now and then and some water is legit.

- If we do have something they want (on a large scale that would interfere with us), than they probably have other worlds they can plunder for resources without the need to take from us.

- If a certain race of beings are harmful than space treaties on developing civilizations offer some protection. They aren't the only races out there.

Of course they *could* be so advanced that we seem like bugs to them..

Queue scene on alien ship...

"Hey this seems like a nice planet! But its covered in these nasty things! They are swarming everywhere!"

"Yeah, what pests. Good thing we brought plenty of spray.."

Originally posted by quantumfluctuation

Originally posted by Blue Shift
once you solve the problem of unlimited power, you don't have to be efficient, and you can concentrate on killing everyone who doesn't believe in the same god you do

A very astute point regarding the post-efficiency civilisation

Analogously speaking, if we humans engineered a source of unlimited energy then our civilisation would be transformed. Most people would be relieved from the burdens of poverty, the working day would be shortened or even eradicated for many people, and industrial production may devolve into a range of hobbyist pursuits, once we have our matter compilers, like with the open source software movement. . .

No, all that will happen is that energy bills will go slightly down. Governments and businesses do not want ppl to have something for free, there will still be a meter counting off credit or a bill at the end of the month.