Exposing the lies in the Official Story

Originally posted by waypastvne

I have never seen that photo before.

We are constantly told that fuel went down the shafts but what evidence it presented to support the claim? There is some movie that has a blob of fuel falling down the middle of the shaft. But the horizontal velocity would have to be zero for that to happen. The airliner hit the north tower at 440 mph.The fuel tanks were ripped open. How could the fuel velocity go down to zero to fall down the middle of the shaft?

But if fuel flowed down the sides of the shaft wouldn't it be on fire? How long would it take to reach the lobby?

psik

Originally posted by psikeyhackr
How could the fuel velocity go down to zero to fall down the middle of the shaft?

But if fuel flowed down the sides of the shaft wouldn't it be on fire? How long would it take to reach the lobby?

psik

It was drawn into the shaft by negative air pressure.

Bernoulli effect. It's the laws of physics.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by waypastvne


Do you have another pic of this anomaly?

The towers stood for about an hour there should be another image of this hole that's been documented.

Also, if the fuel going down the shaft is what caused this hole shouldn't there be flames coming from it?

It appears to be a shadow from the explosive cloud above.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly
there should be another image of this hole that's been documented.

It is not a hole, It's smoke.

It appears to be a shadow from the explosive cloud above.

Yea right. It's 8:46:26 AM. Where is the sun at that time in the morning ?

Originally posted by waypastvne

It is not a hole, It's smoke.

OK, did the smoke come out a broken window?

If so, is there another image to verify your point?

Just trying to get the facts straight, thanks.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly

OK, did the smoke come out a broken window?

The mechanical floors din't have windows, they had vents.

Originally posted by waypastvne
Elevators 6, 7 and 50 ran all the way from the top of the building to the basement.

Also the elevator shafts were not sealed off from one another on the mechanical floors.


Elevator 6, 7 and 50 are marked on the image below.

So your contention is that the fuel traveled down one or more of shafts 6,7 and/or 50? Or was it down one or more the other shafts shown on the right of this image?

Also if the shafts were not sealed of from each other, why does it 'blow out' on the mechanical floor?

The size of the aircraft seems too big in relation to the building by the way. My opinion here.

The mechanical floors didn't have windows, they had vents.

edit on 15-7-2012 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

So there must have been a elevator door open and/or blown out on this type of floor pictured? And maybe a large hallway directly from the lift to the exterior?

Back to original spirit of this thread.

This person at one point is on record as saying in essence: 'We had no idea something like this was going to happen.'

That was a lie.

Off to go fishing now. 'Calgone take me away!'

In regards to the Bernoulli principle argument,

The Bernoulli principle only applies to gases traveling at or near mach speeds. (speed of sound)

The speed you stated was near 500 feet per second. Mach 1 is 1126 fps.

Therefore, the Bernoulli principle does not apply to this situation.

It also only applies to airtight or "almost airtight" tubes,shafts etc.

None of the elevator shafts in either of the towers were even close to being airtight.

Again, proving the Bernoulli principle does not, and can not apply to this particular situation involving the "syphoning" of jet fuel down the elevator shafts.

This 9-11 incident should always remain open, no matter what. There are far too many people that will always be looking for answers, to a question that has been hidden from us by our superiors. Why take the video tapes and not release any of the footage? why get rid of evidence and send it to China? why have wargames when we should have been watching our asses?

What files did Cheney burn up in his office and what reason did he have for doing so?

Why report the towers fell in Britain when they clearly hadn't yet? What are all the other explosions and why are there other explosions going on in the towers? Why are we allowing oil companies to ruin and tarnish our great American culture?

Why do the Israeli's have such close ties with the NSA, CIA and other agencies and allow their computer programs to function in our American system without any discourse or action being taken into account?

Why did Israel bomb the U.S.S. Liberty and were allowed to get away with it? Why were there Israeli bombers on the bridge in a van packed full of explosives the day of 9-11? Why were Israeli's clapping, dancing and cheering when the towers fell? Apparently they did not care that many Americans had just died, is this typical of all Israeli's?

How did terrorists know exactly where the towers were and the Pentagon were out of the blue with no GPS? That would be a feat in itself for a terrorist to be able to find out how to get to any of these locations, let alone any everyday pilot, without certain training? I'm surprised they were able to hit both towers on the first try without even missing...?

And to have their passports quicker than # without it being burned up in the blaze was remarkable? here's a new one both planes that hit the towers somehow ended up crashing into secure computer rooms in both towers?:rense.com...

Flight 11 and United Airlines Flight 175 cross paths in flight before the crash into the trade centers. this just sounds interesting and strange, sounds like the culprit:These units were bolted to the raised floor which stood about 3 feet above the reinforced 81st floor. Beneath the raised floor ran the cables and power supply that connected the army of batteries. IT techies had to get down on all fours and crawl around beneath the raised floor to connect cables.

"The whole floor was batteries," he said, "huge battery-looking things." They were "all black" and "solid, very heavy" things that had been brought in during the night. They had been put in place during the summer prior to 9/11, he said.

But were they really batteries?

"It's weird," he said. "They were never turned on."

So, what really was on the 81st floor of WTC 2? What was in these heavy "battery-looking things?" Were they batteries, or were they Thermite?

Originally posted by marlboro91


The Bernoulli principle only applies to gases traveling at or near mach speeds. (speed of sound)

You really need to double check your facts.

In fluid dynamics, Bernoulli's principle states that for an inviscid flow, an increase in the speed of the fluid occurs simultaneously with a decrease in pressure or a decrease in the fluid's potential energy.

You are telling us that aircraft can only fly at or near mach1.


If you are trying to tell us that 19500 cu ft of air passing through the building at 680 ft per second would have no effect ...please say so..... So we can laugh at you.

Originally posted by infinityoreilly

So your contention is that the fuel traveled down one or more of shafts 6,7 and/or 50? Or was it down one or more the other shafts shown on the right of this image?

Bernoulli's effect is non selective any vertical shaft exposed to the low pressure of the air passing would atomised jet fuel drawn back into it, after the air passed. this includes the AC ducts also.

Also if the shafts were not sealed of from each other, why does it 'blow out' on the mechanical floor?

Any area of low pressure is going to draw air back in to equalise the pressure. If that air contains atomised jet fuel and it ignites........

The size of the aircraft seems too big in relation to the building by the way. My opinion here.

The buildings were 208' wide a B767 has a 156' 1" wingspan, get out your ruler and double check me.

So there must have been a elevator door open and/or blown out on this type of floor pictured? And maybe a large hallway directly from the lift to the exterior?

It also had AC ducts that terminated on that floor.

reply to post by waypastvne
I can just picture you looking stuff up and typing furiously, trying to explain how this relatively small amount of liquid found the elevator shaft, and without clinging to anything, magically descend hundreds of feet, and then ignite in the lobby. I see that you guys have given up on the premise that you're legitimate truth seekers, and now you just blatantly defend the 'Official Lie' in every instance, no matter how absurd you look. Maybe Bernouli would tell you about Daltons law of partial pressures? When you're trying to make people believe something as ridiculous as you are, another scientist might help. See you at the next Mensa meeting.

Originally posted by dillweed
Maybe Bernouli would tell you about Daltons law of partial pressures? When you're trying to make people believe something as ridiculous as you are, another scientist might help.

Oh this ought to be interesting.

Please explain to us how Daltons law of partial pressures would keep jet fuel from entering the elevator shafts.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by dillweed
Maybe Bernouli would tell you about Daltons law of partial pressures? When you're trying to make people believe something as ridiculous as you are, another scientist might help.

Oh this ought to be interesting.

Please explain to us how Daltons law of partial pressures would keep jet fuel from entering the elevator shafts.

Why would I? My statement has the same amount of credibility as yours, I just wanted you to have to look it up. Worked too, didn't it?

Originally posted by dillweed

Why would I? My statement has the same amount of credibility as yours, I just wanted you to have to look it up. Worked too, didn't it?

No I didn't have to look it up.

I did explain how Bernoulli's effect would draw air out of the elevator shafts.

Please explain to us how Daltons law of partial pressures would keep jet fuel from entering the elevator shafts.

reply to post by waypastvne
Yeah, you're right. I don't know what came over me, I have a hard time keeping up with all the science you guys invoke to explain what happened that day. Here I thought that that big ball of orange flame at impact was jet fuel, but I guess it was office furniture and passports. We're damn lucky to have such keen analytical minds such as yours, to explain these unbelievable events. The Bernoulli principle, who knew?

Originally posted by dillweed
The Bernoulli principle, who knew?

I design and manufacture light aircraft. Venturi and Bernoulli are a big part of my day to day life, I don't need to look up their definitions. I not only knew but understood the principals since I was about nine years old.

Truthers asked how so much jet fuel could of travelled down the elevator shafts so fast. I answered them using my knowledge I gained in aviation and added the science to back it up.

If you would like to disprove what I presented, using your knowledge of fluid dynamics along with the science to back it up., be my guest.

Good luck.

Originally posted by thegameisup



Now there was a 'debunker' trying to argue the other day that Jimmy Grillo was in the Marriott Hotel

At 2:15 In this video you will hear Tyrone Johnson say " We was in the staging area inside the building, waiting to go upstairs", So where was the staging area ?

Marriott World Trade Center
Firefighters used the lobby as the staging area,

en.wikipedia.org...

Battalion Chief Edward Henry and I then entered the lobby of the Marriott Hotel which is situated at the foot of both towers. This became a staging area where we were assigned to go to the 75th floor of the North Tower.

www.sept11marriottsurvivors.org...

He rushed to the staging area in the Marriott hotel between the Twin Towers, where 100 firefighters and rescue workers were waiting for assignments.

www.firefightingchaplain.com...



In this video you will here Jimmy Grillo clearly state."we were supposed to go into building No. 2, the south tower" this indicates he never made it into the south tower. Jimmy also semiclearly states that he was in the lobby of WTC2 when it collapsed. We know this can't be true because he is still alive.

Originally posted by thegameisup

even though 'debunkers' like to produce a dubious link stating Ladder 24 were in the Marriott Hotel.

Here are those "dubious" links again so people can judge the dubiousness for themselves.

My name is Tyrone Johnson, firefighter first grade, assigned to Ladder 24.......


Then maybe about five, ten minutes later, we were ordered to go into the Marriott Hotel. At that time the company and three other companies in front of us went inside the Marriott Hotel......

We went to the Marriott. We got inside the lobby. The chief told us take your gear off, relax, until you find out what you want us to do.
Maybe 10 or 15 minutes later he gave us the command put the gear on because we're getting ready to head upstairs. There were about three companies in front of us. We were the last company to go up the steps. Maybe about five minutes into the process of going up the steps, that's when the building collapsed on us.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

James Duffy. CHIEF CONGIUSTA: Firefighter third of
Ladder 24 of the New York City Fire Department....

We were told to report to the south tower, but the only way to get to the south tower -- you couldn't walk down Liberty Street to get into the main entrance because of the jumpers and the falling debris, so we had to go in through the corner entrance of the Marriott, which is on West and Liberty. We went in there......

over there right next to us. 22 Truck was in the lobby also. Then we were just waiting to go into the south tower. As we were waiting, we looked up and all I saw was -- I heard this huge noise, and I saw hundreds and hundreds of people running towards us. They were running out of the south tower to the Marriott, to the lobby.

We just turned. We started to like run also. We got about ten feet before getting blown across the lobby. We got blown across the lobby, just got covered with debris.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

Q. When either tower came down, did you have any advanced warning?

A. Oh, no. I didn't know what it was when we were inside. I didn't know the building had collapsed, actually. I thought it was a bomb. I thought a bomb had gone off. That's why I really didn't know until after.

Q. Afterwards?

A. Yeah, that that's when it came down. I wasn't expecting that. I thought it was a bomb or something that went off.

Q. Glad you made it.

A. Yeah.

Q. Thanks for the interview.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

My Story, September 11, 2001

Once we reached the doorway I thanked God that we had made it and then entered the hotel lobby. There was a sea of firefighters all waiting their turn to start heading up. We knew we had to wait a while, so we loosened our coats and put down all our gear so we wouldn't overheat. While we waited, I noticed Jimmy Grillo, a member of our company, holding a five-gallon bottle of water, filling up cups with water so we would all be properly hydrated. Standing by, just waiting for our turn, I also noticed a bank of pay phones on the lobby wall. The lieutenant and I approached the phones trying to get a working line. We had a dial tone but all the circuits were busy. I even attempted to use my cell phone to get in touch with my family, but that failed. I was concerned about how much they must be worrying about me.

It was our turn to go up.

We started heading to the stairwell when this dark, overpowering shadow started heading toward us. It seemed as if it was in slow motion. People were yelling to run. My first instinct was to run away from the shadow thinking another plane must be coming in. I made a turn toward another lobby, trying to get away from the front of the building. Then I felt this force, like being in a massive wind tunnel. Firefighters were getting tossed around like rag dolls. I found myself being blown across the floor landing into what appeared to be a closet. The South Tower was collapsing.

www.thedailybeast.com...

All three firefighters were in the Marriott hotel lobby when WTC2 collapsed. They mistook the collapse for an explosion.

reply to post by waypastvne


I gave you a 'star' for effort on that last post. Thanks for your thoroughness.

As I've stated before the idea of 'controled' demolition is hard to see in the chaos of WTC 1 and 2.

I'm not saying there weren't reasons other than the aircraft and the accompanying fuel and effects that aided the collapses though. My mind is open to the possibility of other energies being present.

WTC 7 is a little harder to explain, as the experts at NIST found out.