It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Video: Cops Tase Man For Refusing To ID

page: 5
23
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 08:54 AM
link   
reply to post by Ben81
 


What Video did you watch? If the Police ask for your ID because you commented an infraction then you must show your ID. This man refused to show his ID. then while they were arresting him he resisted arrest. and swung of the cops. This man deserved to be tazed and arrested.




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:32 PM
link   
At this point the problem must be deeper rooted than corrupt cops. Who lays out the way cops are trained? What are they being taught?



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:46 PM
link   
reply to post by Ben81
 
Another good thread that ought to encourage others to become informed... I see the guy was apparently in the wrong, but what really made this situation significant from my viewpoint was the inability of both parties to de-escalate the situation. The guy, caught up in wanting to exercise his rights, failed to realize the cops were in the right here.

I must say he took a tazing like a champ, though.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:52 PM
link   
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Kinda like they stopped using SWAT teams as a last resort in crazy hostage situations like they sold them in the inception? Give them an inch, and they take a mile, over and over.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 01:20 PM
link   
On this one, I'm going to have to side with the police. They told him he committed an infraction, he acknowledged it by saying no one got hurt. When asked for his ID, he should have produced it. Looked to me like he was trying to make a point but not realizing that he was very much in the wrong. Then he makes it even worse by resisting, the first officer warned him multiple times that he was going to be tazed, what the hell did he expect.

Also, had to stop watching about 7 mins in, that woman he was with was maddening! She didn't help the situation either.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 02:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Kinda like they stopped using SWAT teams as a last resort in crazy hostage situations like they sold them in the inception? Give them an inch, and they take a mile, over and over.

Indeed they sure do. Miles and Miles, to be sure.

One other thing few on the thread seem to even comment about and it's the most striking thing. That this happened at all??

I look at the video..and I see two BIG burly detectives in Body Armor and dressed to kill...almost literally..and they're busting Jaywalkers?? Yeah, aren't we all actually missing the biggest problem here? If a traffic cop or marked Unit hassled him for this, I'm betting it may have gone a little differently. I can't know, but I'll say THIS...

If I am stopped for petty crap on the street by a marked unit, I figure it's his job and he's bored silly. Nothing personal beyond the fact I happened to be what caught his bored eye and some days...life really sucks. In this case though, if I'm stopped by two Vice Detectives or whatever the heck these guys are in real life..when not playing traffic cop and the stop were for the SAME THING, mind you, I would be defensive bordering on outright covering on everything I said and did because THEY came looking for a fight and it's as obvious as the sky is blue.

Yeah... Detectives out busting Jaywalkers...No.. they were out looking for someone to roust. They found one..and his day was more than just ruined for it. Why? They were bored or fishing...and the fish didn't play nice. Well... Screw them. I wouldn't either.

edit on 13-7-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 06:41 PM
link   
reply to post by MrWendal
 


Sort of. What you are missing is that the 'consensual contact' gives cops an excuse to engage, and all they need to move beyond that engagement is their own claim of 'suspicion'. The initial contact gives them a pre-text for a more thorough search, which is why in copwatch, we always taught people to never, ever engage in what appears to be 'friendy' conversation.

So, no, you are correct that it is not illegal for the citizen to refuse the search. But the POINT is that once you have engaged, the law is on their side because they can manufacture ANY reason to establish a search once they have engaged.

Do you see the discrepancy?



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 08:57 PM
link   
Excuse me. This guy refused to identify himself. If he had done so he would not have been tasered. If he wants to buck the system, fine. But they are the Police and I say they had every right to deal with someone who refuses to cooperate with them.

I agree with the Police on this one. If this was a war zone and he had that attitude he's be dead. - he's lucky.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:06 PM
link   
So let's say I don't have an ID?
Does that make me a felon?

Get real people, you live in a world where the cops don't even know the actual laws.
Idiot planet, that's where I live.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:11 PM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So let's say I don't have an ID?
Does that make me a felon?



Are you under the impression that relates to the situation discussed in the OP?



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:23 PM
link   

Originally posted by stanguilles7

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So let's say I don't have an ID?
Does that make me a felon?



Are you under the impression that relates to the situation discussed in the OP?



Yeah.

Because if you say, show me your ID, and I say, no (because I don't have one), obviously I'd be in some deep trouble.

Even though it's 100% legal to refuse to show ID in "consensual" encounters....

Stop and Identify Statutes


In the United States, interactions between police and citizens fall into three general categories: consensual (“contact” or “conversation”), detention (often called a Terry stop, after Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)), or arrest. “Stop and identify” laws pertain to detentions.

Different obligations apply to drivers of automobiles, who generally are required by state vehicle codes to present a driver’s license to police upon request.



At any time, police may approach a person and ask questions. The objective may simply be a friendly conversation; however, the police also may suspect involvement in a crime, but lack “specific and articulable facts”[4] that would justify a detention or arrest, and hope to obtain these facts from the questioning. The person approached is not required to identify himself or answer any other questions, and may leave at any time.[5] Police are not usually required to tell a person that he is free to decline to answer questions and go about his business;[6] however, a person can usually determine whether the interaction is consensual by asking, “Am I free to go?”


The officers in the video did not reveal they had any intentions to Detain the individual. So in the court of law, this "incident" will go under Consensual, and therefore it is illegitimate to ask him for an ID, it's not a legal order.


Police may question a person detained in a Terry stop, but in general, the detainee is not required to answer.[10] However, many states have “stop and identify” laws that explicitly require a person detained under the conditions of Terry to identify himself to police, and in some cases, provide additional information.


He wasn't being detained at the time of the initial request. By merely arresting him for REFUSING a non-legal order, is not justification for then detaining him and requesting his ID.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:25 PM
link   
Thankfully I know how to use the law in my favor, and I will tell you now, if police ever bother you, say no comment. They cannot do anything about it.

Request legal assistance and continue keeping your mouth shut.
Force them to either charge you with an actual crime, or to give up on wasting time with you.

You have the right to remain silent, do it.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:30 PM
link   
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


So, in other words, you dont get that this guy was in the process of being cited for an offense, and therfore reuired by aw to provide his ID.

Thats what I thought, but i just wanted to confirm.

But sure, agree with your unrelated point about not talking to cops if you have not just comitted a crime.
edit on 13-7-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:34 PM
link   
Did you know you can legally liberate someone being illegally arrested?


"One may come to the aid of another being unlawfully arrested, just as he may where one is being assaulted, molested, raped or kidnapped. Thus it is not an offense to liberate one from the unlawful custody of an officer, even though he may have submitted to such custody, without resistance."


(Adams v. State, 121 Ga. 16, 48 S.E. 910).

Southern Reporter V 48

The average person isn't aware of the truth.
They think they cannot resist anything no matter how tyrannical it becomes.

Fact is, you have the legal authority to resist unlawful actions and you have the duty to resist it.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by stanguilles7
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


So, in other words, you dont get that this guy was in the process of being cited for an offense, and therfore reuired by aw to provide his ID.

Thats what I thought, but i just wanted to confirm.

But sure, agree with your unrelated point about not talking to cops if you have not just comitted a crime.
edit on 13-7-2012 by stanguilles7 because: (no reason given)



They are totally different in legal terminology and the methods of how they are dealt with.

Being cited for a commercial code "infraction" is not a criminal charge, and it doesn't somehow grant them the ability to require ID of some form until they legally detain him for legitimate reasons.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:40 PM
link   
Can someone please start recruiting cops that went to law school?

Or how about, since we waste all this $$$, send all prospective future police recruits to law school?

If we continue to allow the police "who are suppose to uphold the law", to not even know what the hell the actual law is, they won't be able to uphold it. In fact, just like in this video, they will trample the law.

Common sense states that cops should know the law if they ever hope to uphold it.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:49 PM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Can someone please start recruiting cops that went to law school?

Or how about, since we waste all this $$$, send all prospective future police recruits to law school?

If we continue to allow the police "who are suppose to uphold the law", to not even know what the hell the actual law is, they won't be able to uphold it. In fact, just like in this video, they will trample the law.

Common sense states that cops should know the law if they ever hope to uphold it.


Again, what the cops did here was completely within the law.

It's too bad you keep skipping over that key point.

When you are detained for breaking the law, you have to supply ID.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 09:52 PM
link   
post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 10:19 PM
link   

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The officers in the video did not reveal they had any intentions to Detain the individual. So in the court of law, this "incident" will go under Consensual, and therefore it is illegitimate to ask him for an ID, it's not a legal order.

Wrong, he was receiving a citation...
That is beyond “casual contact” or being “detained”, but is not quite the same as “being arrested”. The person being given a citation has been observed breaking the law, but the crime is not severe enough to justify arrest. So its beyond “probable cause” or “Reasonable suspicion”, and beyond being simply “detained”.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 10:29 PM
link   
You can see the guy resisting arrest, I didn't bother watching beyond 1:45 because at 1:00 he resists arrest. Your ID can be requested(and you arrested for refusing) if police demand it. Their reasons for demanding may be sketchy, and in this case you don't see why they requested it. Your best bet is to remain calm and request their supervisor to show up.

This guy did not remain calm, when the cops approached him you can see him backing away as if he is a criminal -- subconsciously anyone would react as if he certainly is a criminal, whether he is or not.



new topics

top topics



 
23
<< 2  3  4    6  7 >>

log in

join