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Video: Cops Tase Man For Refusing To ID

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posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by MrWendal


Can you show us the law from any US State that says once you are engaged in a conversation with a Police Officer, they can demand ID and you must comply?


Sure. As a member of copwatch, i'm very familiar with them:




While it has been held by the Fifth District Court of Appeals that the police may freely question an individual and ask to see his identification, and may even request to search his person without implicating Fourth Amendment rights, officers may not convey a message that compliance with their requests is required. Jeralds v. State, 664 So. 2d 56 (Fla. 5th DCA1995).




www.husseinandwebber.com...

From wiki:


At any time, police may approach a person and ask questions. The objective may simply be a friendly conversation; however, the police also may suspect involvement in a crime, but lack “specific and articulable facts”[4] that would justify a detention or arrest, and hope to obtain these facts from the questioning. The person approached is not required to identify himself or answer any other questions, and may leave at any time.[5] Police are not usually required to tell a person that he is free to decline to answer questions and go about his business;[6] however, a person can usually determine whether the interaction is consensual by asking, “Am I free to go?”[7][8]


en.wikipedia.org...


A consensual interaction is no different than an interaction between two civilians on the street. It gives the cop the right to ask the civilian questions, but it also gives the right for the civilian to refuse to answer those questions, including providing identification.


www.pixiq.com...


Originally posted by MrWendalWhat you are describing is not only false, but flat out silly. If a Cop stops by the McDonald's drive thru and I am the cashier. He does not have a right to demand ID from me because I took his order and told him to have a nice day. If you can show us a law from any US State that says otherwise, I will happily eat my words.


That's an entirely different scenario than being discussed here. This person was not working, and had already broken the law.

Eat your words?




posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Domo1
You guys are ridiculous. The kid jaywalked and was also riding his bike without a helmet. The police were well within there right to ID him. You act like a little punk when given a lawful order, you get arrested. You resist, you get tazed. I love these videos.


Couldn't have said it better.
The loud mouth girl should have been arrested for interfering with an arrest.
He committed a crime.
Here in Seattle, they would have put him on the ground in about 2 seconds flat for refusing allmost anything!
When a cop asks for I.D., I give it to him...
It's pretty simple...



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by yorkshirelad
I did a search (being UK citizen and long term ATS'er) and there is NO LAW IN THE US for wearing a cycle helmet.

.



Might wanna search again

There is no Federal law. There are several state and city laws.


Twenty-one states and the District of Columbia do have statewide bicycle helmet laws that apply to young riders (often riders younger than 16)

Some 152 municipal localities have enacted age-specific ordinances that require bicycle helmet use, typically these laws cover bicyclists under age 16.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by Unity_99
He was tasered for not giving ID. What was his resist.

When the officer asked him to place his hands behind his back and he started passively resisting them trying to put the handcuffs on him. Passive resistance (for example folding your arms), is still just as much resisting arrest as is active resistance.


Originally posted by Unity_99
Why should he not resist. I consider all police and judges, all employees and they had better use very respectful good behavior all the time, and only resort to the extreme in life threatening instances.

He was being issued a citation, and he has no right at that point to refuse to give ID. You can refuse to give ID during “casual” police contact, and in states with no “stop and identify” laws, during detainment. He was already beyond both of those as he had been seen breaking the law, and was being issued a citation.


Originally posted by Unity_99
I consider most legislations crimes by the way. I would never stand under them and do not allow the corrupt evil system without standing up. I post so they can read, and I know they do.

You welcome to feel that way, but all its going to get you in the long run is a good police beating if you ever try it on an officer. You need to research what the law actually is, not what you feel it should be. States have the right to make laws, that is upheld in the US Constitution.


Originally posted by Unity_99
TR3B's

You mean DC-9's.



Originally posted by Unity_99
I don't consider arrest to be the way to handle misdeamers.

It wouldn't have been, if he hadn't acted like a fool, and known the actual laws. His ignorance of the law turned what would have otherwise been a simple ticket into his ending up in jail.


Originally posted by Unity_99
Again, did I see LETHAL FORCE? NO! Otherwise tasers are torture and if they thought he was resisting, why didn't they use traditional methods to detain?

You don't have to use lethal force for an officer to be allowed to use his taser, you only need resist arrest. There is a “use of force matrix” that officers follow, it goes like this:



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:08 PM
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So are people so eager to jump on the anti-cop band wagon that they just throw all common sense aside?

The police were clearly justified to ask him for id...kinda hard to get a ticket without a name on it. For someone openly carrying a firearm, he is pretty darn stupid. It's people like him that help fuel the anti-gun initiatives.

I will agree thought that these police didn't do their jobs very well. Use the video for training? Ummm....I don't think so. They lost control of the siutation from the start when they didn't immediately put him on the ground and cuff him when he resisted. And yes...he did resist. He also had a gun....VERY bad combination.

Let me give all you cop haters some advice: screaming like a total idiot that you are NOT resisting when you clearly are, does not make it true. Escalating a situation from what most likely would have been a warning for jaywalking into an all-out free for all where someone could have been shot does NOT make it police brutality. Having your VERY annoying girlfriend get it all on tape only PROVES you are wrong...and that she is equally as dumb.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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If they caught him doing something wrong, he has to provide ID. If he is just standing on the corner being harassed for being black on a Thursday afternoon, then no, he does not deserve to get arrested as no crime was committed.

ETA: while this is pretty steep for jaywalking, even if it is jaywalking the cops have a right to identify you when caught doing anything wrong. To my knowledge jaywalking is still a ticketable offense, hence the cop had a right to issue a citation. Just like he should have at least tased the chick with the camera...why couldn't she just shut up?

The moment he started resisting, and yes he did when he refused to cooperate (right or wrong on the side of the cops. Once you start resisting in any fashion its on like donkey kong with the charges that follow)

So in short he deserved what he got as both parties omit that jaywalking occurred on tape. And as such the officers had a right to question him. He did not have the right to challenge the cop under that basis.

If your gonna rail on the cops, you must first make sure you did nothing wrong completely before you do. Cause if the cops have to chase you, their bringing a ass beatin with em.
edit on 12-7-2012 by Kastogere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:34 PM
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Ultimately here's the thing.
If the police decide to arrest you at the scene, all the kicking, screaming, crying, refusing to comply in the world is not going to stop it from happening. Even if you feel its being done unlawfully. Police are granted LOTS of leeway, that you are not. A police officer only has to BELIEVE what he is doing is legally correct, and he's covered. As a civilian, you have to make sure 100% that what you are doing is legal, and even then you still might not win.

How you handle this is that you go along willingly, and you fight them in a court of law. If you do this, and the cops end up being wrong, you can sue the local government for a variety of infractions...

Now even if the cops were wrong to arrest you, and you resist, beside getting one hell of a butt beating, you're also now guilty of a crime of resisting. It does not legally matter that you were being unlawfully arrested, they still will stack this on you, and you'll end up losing in the long run. That is why its the most commonly used stacking charge, because states like officers to use it as a CYA measure to prevent lawsuits against them in case you are wrongfully arrested.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:41 PM
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Oh... One more important thing.
Even if you are 100% sure you are correct, and you will be able to sue them, keep your mouth shut about it. If they even suspect that it will come back around and bite them in the but, both the department, the city/state/county, and themselves personally, they will make sure you end up incriminating yourself somehow before trial. They will provoke you, they will put you in a no win situation, they will make your life a living hell, because they can, and they want you to freak out on them. They are experts at this stuff, its what they do every single day.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by MrWendal
 


I can't even put words together to begin to describe how wrong you are.
But i will try
He broke the law
They asked for a ID(a name and address would of done it)
He resists
they Taser him

Should they of let a criminal go because he might get hurt?
Off course not.
And im so glad your a minority in your views because if not then the best legal system we currently have, which we have been developing for a 1000 years would of failed miserably.
Check and balances.
If the guy was completely right and this was just police abuse of power then the judge would of thrown it out of court.
Off course its not perfect but i would like to see someone even try to prove that it hasn't been the most successful system in keeping law and order.



edit on 12-7-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-7-2012 by Bixxi3 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by IceHappy
reply to post by EvilSadamClone
 


But my friend the danger in which one can be in by crossing paths of the wrong cop is not worth the risk and endangerment! Not worth it like smoking! Look at George Burns he outlived Gracie smoking those cigars. Some can smoke and die of old age but the cancer wards are full of smokers who are much younger. So it is not advise to smoke! My advice is avoid cops at all costs. There is nothing to gain, only the possibility of pain.

In San Francisco and other like cities that are "Sanctuary Cities" cops cannot ask Mexicans ID. It almost seems that this man problem is that he is the wrong race.

"YOUR Papers please" was Arte Johnson catch phrase in SNL. Arte dressed as German Storm Trooper. Now that catch phrase is all American and no longer the German demand in WWII!

BTW OP Stars n 1 Flag tried to sneak another one in till I saw cops on the path....


I like your post, so I hate to be the one to have to say this, but Arte Johnson was on Laugh In, not SNL. Sorry to have to be a trivia Nazi



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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You Know...? In my pin onion it no long matters what the cops are threatening you with if you don't comply with everything they say. Gentle euphemisms like May I see your ID really only mask the violence just lurking under the surface if you raise any question why you are being targeted. Everyone knows that question leads to a hundred others all of which are their test of how compliant you are. Get an answer wrong and its another charge.

Awwww c'mon, Jay Walking... really?
"Turn around, you are under arrest."

We all know that the police are also looking for anything else to pin a charge on. As laws become ever more numerous and petty we all fear that sudden, "Halt, or I'll use any of thirty nine lethal and non lethal means at my disposal to harm you." That is the threat, right?

Tasers are non lethal, they just face plant you onto the cement. Now if they all stood around with 8 lb. blocks of cement, threatening to hit you in the head with them if you don't comply, would that be jurisprudent? I know it wouldn't look good at a hearing.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by Ben81
 


Anyone who knows anything about the law can obviously see these police broke the law several times here. First of all they failed to provide a legitimate reason for requesting his ID. Then they attempted to arrest him after he didn't comply with their bogus unlawful requests. Then they continued to attempt an unlawful arrest even after he requested the supervisor... at which point they should have requested the supervisor to assess the situation, as displayed in this scenario. Then to top it all off they tase the guy for simply trying to exercise his lawful rights. Looks like the true signs of a police state to me... or just young naive cops with no true knowledge of the law.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Arghhh




Do police have to tell me why I'm being arrested? No. Police are not required to tell you what you're being arrested for. Within 72 hours you have right to be brought before a judge or released. When brought before a judge, that's when the charges against you will be read. Nevertheless, at the time of arrest, police will typically give you a basic explanation for why you're being taken into custody. Remember to keep your mouth shut and ask for a lawyer.


from flexyourrights...



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Anyone who knows anything about the law can obviously see these police broke the law several times here. First of all they failed to provide a legitimate reason for requesting his ID.

Incorrect. They gave him a reason. He was being written a citation for jaywalking. When they write you a citation, you have to present them with your identity so it can be written out to you, and you can prove that you're not just giving them some bogus name.


Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Then they continued to attempt an unlawful arrest even after he requested the supervisor...

Police are under no obligation to present you with a supervisor at your request, at the time of your choosing. As I said earlier, every criminal would ask for a supervisor, because it would give them time to flee.


Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Then to top it all off they tase the guy for simply trying to exercise his lawful rights.

They tazed him for resisting, not for exercising his right. He was trying to claim rights that are not granted to him in order to get out of being written a ticket.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Bixxi3
 


What you quoted is completely irrelevant here. They wanted to see his ID, and he refused, so then they attempted to arrest him. He wouldn't be required to show his ID unless he was suspected of a crime, which I am now aware he was suspected of a crime. So my first post above yours is not correct. I just watched the video and assumed they had randomly stopped him and requested his ID. Turns out they did suspect him of a crime, so he was required to show his ID. Although if they had of explained that to him, he may have been more cooperative.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Bixxi3
 


What you quoted is completely irrelevant here. They wanted to see his ID, and he refused, so then they attempted to arrest him. He wouldn't be required to show his ID unless he was suspected of a crime, which I am now aware he was suspected of a crime. So my first post above yours is not correct. I just watched the video and assumed they had randomly stopped him and requested his ID. Turns out they did suspect him of a crime, so he was required to show his ID. Although if they had of explained that to him, he may have been more cooperative.


i made a mistake .. apparently had a gun
so if police see someone without any uniform that have a gun walking in the streets
even a marine not on duty can be arrested if he doesnt show his ID
even if it is an undercover cop .. he need to show them his ID
this is testing the limit of the law and taking risk to be arrested

if the guy didnt had any gun .. then he was right to resist
edit on 7/13/2012 by Ben81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
Oh... One more important thing.
Even if you are 100% sure you are correct, and you will be able to sue them, keep your mouth shut about it. If they even suspect that it will come back around and bite them in the but, both the department, the city/state/county, and themselves personally, they will make sure you end up incriminating yourself somehow before trial. They will provoke you, they will put you in a no win situation, they will make your life a living hell, because they can, and they want you to freak out on them. They are experts at this stuff, its what they do every single day.


Here is a very good video (48 minutes long but very worth your time) that explains in a little more detail why you should never speak to a LEO. Even if you are totally innocent.




posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by stanguilles7
 


Eat my words why? Perhaps you missed it but you basically made my point for me. Below is your exact comment.




Furthermore, once you as a citizen engage in conversation with a cop you give them the right to demand ID.


Nothing you posted says that once engaged in conversation do you automatically give Police a right to demand ID. What you posted discusses some of the tricks police use in order to gain information, but says nothing about giving police the right to demand anything at all strictly by having a conversation.
edit on 13-7-2012 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:09 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 13 2012 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by mileysubet
That is an excellent video, and pretty entertaining as well.


Not exactly what I was talking about though...
I was saying that even if you know your in the right, don't bring it up to the officers, let them go ahead and arrest you. Just as mentioned in the video, once an officer makes the decision to arrest, nothing is going to reverse that decision. He already feels he has enough ammo for a conviction, or he would not be arresting you. You're not going to negotiate your way out of it, nor is “tattling” to his supervisor going to help you avoid a trip downtown. His supervisor is going off the same laws/statutes/ordinances that he is, and they all know them like the back of their hand. However, in the rare instance that you are within your rights, and they still arrest you, shooting your mouth off is just going to make your time in jail a living hell. They will have the jail guards make sure your stay is as uncomfortable as possible, or goad you into deeper trouble then you're already in. If they realize that they have really screwed up, and you will be in a position to legally sue them, they will try and get you convicted on anything they possibly can scrape up against you.



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