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See that's the kind of disinformation the chemtrail promoters use. You are basically making things up:
A persistent contrail (without chemical additives) is a rarity.
Basically tired of your bunk 'science'.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by DJW001
Contrail formation is a natural process.
o.m.g.!
You have what I perceive as a vested interest in proving that the grids in the sky are outrageously persistent contrails. I don't. Therefore it doesn't matter to me what altitude or humidity or what saturation of nucleatable (is that a word?) particles is present. It only matters to you.
What matters to me is fostering some real understanding of the grids in the sky. Not proving that they are outrageously persistent contrails.
A persistent contrail (without chemical additives) is a rarity. And an outrageously persistent contrail, as in the sky grids, is an absolute freak.
Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Uncinus
See that's the kind of disinformation the chemtrail promoters use. You are basically making things up:
Well, Mr. Making Things Up, I'm still waiting to finish our conversation on the jet and the egg. But you don't ever finish anything...you just go on to something else when things get uncomfortable for you.
A persistent contrail (without chemical additives) is a rarity. And an outrageously persistent contrail, as in the sky grids, is an absolute freak. But wait...it's being sighted all over the world (except for the tropics). I'm tired of what you consider 'natural'. Basically tired of your bunk 'science'.
Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by luxordelphi
A persistent contrail (without chemical additives) is a rarity. And an outrageously persistent contrail, as in the sky grids, is an absolute freak.
What chemical additives were used in the bombers to form the sky grid in 1944?
And regular persistent contrails are a rarity?
A: For a particular geographical location, it may seem that there are more of one type of contrail than another. Actually, the type and number seems to depend on the amount of moisture and temperature in the atmosphere where the plane is flying. If the area is fairly dry, then more short-lived contrails might be observed. If there is more moisture, such as along the east coast of the United States, there might be more persistent contrails observed.
Francis Mangels, former USDA scientist and featured expert in the movie What In The World Are They Spraying?, joins us to talk about the controversial topic, chemtrails. Skeptics say that chemtrails are merely persistent contrails, but the conditions for which normal contrails to persist are very rare.
Met offices tell us that there is more high cloud because of increased air traffic but perhaps other factors are leading to increased water vapour in the upper atmosphere, one hypothesis is that ozone decomposition by hydrogen can do this. Changes in aircraft fuel particularly to JP8 and JP8 100 with its dispersant molecules may be having effects by boosting particulate emission. Changes to Earth’s ionosphere or magnetosphere may also be happening (either natural or person- made) which could yield more prevalence of CCN (Cloud Condensation Nuclei) for persistent and spreading contrail formation.
Similarly they were first noticed in the skies of the UK in 2001 and are now commonplace particularly in the summer months. This coincides with JP8 use in all air fleets and JP8 /100 IN A FEW OTHERS. It is also possible that there is a certain threshold density for normal persistent contrails, allied to the amount of air traffic, particularly with AVOSS and AMDAR requirements, water vapour, particulates and upper atmosphere electric field; above which values natural spreading or cross-linking occurs. If this is the case it is difficult to see why air traffic controllers don’t take account of this and vary air routes more often.
Why was the first Scientific Project by Professor Patrick Minnis to study Persistent Contrails entitled with the acronym ‘SUCCESS’ and why was it so ‘successful’ to have created or observed the World’s first spreading contrail/chemtrail, particularly when they can exacerbate global warming?
Pseudo –cirrus can give rise to some very rare atmospheric optical effects called Halos, Sundogs and Day glows hitherto fairly rarely observed at British Latitudes.
"Persistent contrails are condensation that persists longer than the normal contrail. Persistent contrails are very rare and require very specific atmospheric conditions which include very cold and very humid air," Murphy said.
A study conducted using the scientific method in the Houston area shows that (1) an abnormal type of aircraft contrail, one that is significantly more persistent, is being produced by some planes, and that (2) the planes that produce this type of contrail (some would call them chemtrails) are not registered air traffic for the area, but rather, unidentifiable jets.
iii) Only in the rare case of higher ambient ice supersaturation (.2%) do both parts of a contrail contribute to the persistent ice cloud. The number of ice crystals initially formed is typically reduced by a factor of 200 by evaporation (60% ambient humidity). This leads to a high population of interstitial particles. The results imply that formation of persistent contrails can be minimized by technical means.
mostly incomprehensible
The secondary wake is composed of nonspherical particles larger than the ones in the wingtip vortices which are spherical particles and/or particles smaller than 0.5 mm. In most cases the secondary wake is the only part of a contrail that persists after vortex breakdown.
The paper does not say that.
To sum: used to be rare.
The paper does not say that.
Easy to tweak so we'd never have to see another one.
The paper does not say that.
There is no such thing as an outrageously persistent contrail but there is a chemtrail, designed to persist.
The paper does not say that.
stating , definitively, that we don't ever need to see another outrageously persistent contrail.
The results imply that formation of persistent contrails can be minimized by technical means.
Yes. To you it would be since you don't bother to learn what the parts you don't understand may mean.
Mumbo jumbo.
To sum: we don't ever need to see an outrageously persistent contrail again
some bedtime reading
Changes which would reduce the efficiency of the aircraft and result in the consumption of more fuel and thus increase the production of more exhaust products.
What more? How could it get any worse than toxic sky grids?
Let's ask a real scientist, rather than relying on virtual wannabe's:
Francis is presently a professor and master gardener, growing gardens in the Pacific Northwest for 50 years. He came from farm and forest country in Montana and Idaho, to Mt. Shasta in 1981. With BS cum laude in Forestry 1970 and MS in Zoology 1976, Francis also has “minors” in many conservation and natural resource subjects: soils, geology, botany, bugs, fish, agriculture, range, wildlife, and conservation management.
Francis retired from district biologist for Mt. Shasta-McCloud USFS in 2008, where he did range, wildlife, botany, mushrooms, fisheries, and other input to timber sales and other natural resource projects for 35 years. He also was a USDA Soil Conservationist for the Soil Conservation Service and served farms, ranches, orchards, and gardens.
And last, a study, not much of it, just the abstract, mostly incomprehensible, stating , definitively, that we don't ever need to see another outrageously persistent contrail.
The most evident effect of air traffic upon the atmosphere is certainly its formation of (long living) condensation trails (contrails). These artificial clouds appear when the hot and humid exhaust gas from the jet engines reaches a water-supersaturated state during its mixing with the cold ambient air. This then allows the water vapour to condense and freeze to form ice crystals. Generally, persistent contrails receive more interest than those that are short living (lifetime ,1 min), because only persistent contrails can significantly impact on the radiative energy balance of the Earth.
Understanding the mechanisms determining growth in the vertical and horizontal directions is crucial for quantifying the impact upon regional radiation balance. Vertical extension is ruled by the dynamics of the downward trailing vortex pair that forms behind cruising aircraft due to pressure differences at the wings ("vortex regime", i.e., 10–100 s behind aircraft). Horizontal growth is then determined by vertical shear of horizontal wind speed and turbulence in the "dispersion regime".
stating , definitively, that we don't ever need to see another outrageously persistent contrail.
Persistent Plane Contrails Cover Atlanta Skies, Raise Concerns
The solutions are simple and well known. Life would be better and the militaries would no longer have to fend off chemtrail claims.