Chemtrail Tanker Air Show For The Skeptics

Originally posted by luxordelphi
As far as the 'internal' UK flights increasing - could you supply some statistics and altitudes with these flights? You may be onto something.

As an example

www.nats.co.uk...

or

www.nats.co.uk...

then there's

www.eturbonews.com...

though it seems the number if flights to the UK itself hasn't increased as much as it might have - though of course many of these flights going ti airports elsewhere in Europe would still fly over the UK

Just as an aside: since the UK has a lot of fronts and is known for weather, it would be a shame to alter that pattern creating, initially, floods, and then drought through chemtrailing. But that's not happening there, is it?

So chemtrails cause a shift in the positioning of Rossby waves now, do they?

As an aside, due to the weather conditions this year, we've had far fewer days with widespread contrails visible than usual. Or maybe our unusually wet weather is due to the lack of chemtrailing?

reply to post by AndyMayhew


Thankyou for your informative post. I'm going to just give the movements for Heathrow and then we can talk about it:

Airports Council International/ Annual Movements

Total Movements 2000 FINAL 17 LONDON (LHR) 466 815 1.9

Total Movements 2001 FINAL 15 LONDON (LHR) 463 568 (0.7)

Total Movements 2002 FINAL 13 LONDON (LHR) 466 554 0.6

Traffic Movements 2003 FINAL 13 LONDON (LHR) 463 650 ( 0.6)

Traffic Movements 2004 FINAL 15 LONDON (LHR) 475 999 2.7

Traffic Movements 2005 FINAL 17 LONDON (LHR) 477 884 0.4

Traffic Movements 2006 FINAL 14 LONDON (LHR) 477 041 ( 0.2)

Traffic Movements 2007 FINAL 14 LONDON (LHR) 481 479 0.9

Traffic Movements 2008 FINAL 13 LONDON (LHR) 478 518 ( 0.6)

Traffic Movements 2009 FINAL 12 LONDON, GB (LHR) 466 393 ( 2.6)

Traffic Movements 2010 FINAL 13 LONDON, GB(LHR) 454 883 ( 2.5)

It winds up down about 12,000 movements in 2010 from 2000. There were some better years and several good years 2004 through 2008. But overall it's kind of up and then down again. The statistics you linked are for one month or are for all UK airports for a partial year without a comparison to anything but the previous year. You can understand why this would not be meaningful for me. And even those figures show that while flights were up in 2011, over the previous year, they are down in 2012. I'm going to tentatively say that overall, this is not an increase but rather, for the moment a flat line. A flat line can mean that something is getting ready to fall off a cliff.

I read the article you supplied claiming lack of capacity for the flatline and a caution that they're about to lose 53% of their scheduled airliners? I'm not sure I really understand that. Is it just the airport expansion developers trying to strong arm the UK into building on to the airport? I can't believe that 53% of the airliners are leaving?! And they are not only leaving the airport but leaving the country? And there is no way to track where they are going? I'm sorry, I'm obviously not that up on things there but that just sounds outrageous. Explain this to me please.

You didn't address the 'internal' UK flights that are increasing. (Actually I think it was the other poster who mentioned that.) Do the 'internal' flights mean when Heathrow is out of capacity and they re-route to another airport nearby? That's not really a movement. A movement has to be a landing or takeoff.

As an aside, due to the weather conditions this year, we've had far fewer days with widespread contrails visible than usual. Or maybe our unusually wet weather is due to the lack of chemtrailing?

From the research I've done so far, chemtrailing, initially, causes rain and then finally causes drought. This is because, imo, the object and the studies to that end are to obscure the sky. If it rains out - mission failed. Weather should bring more contrails, as we learned in WWII, provided there are sufficient craft in the air in close enough proximity. In the U.S., the more contrails, the less weather. Where I am anyway. And where I've been recently.

And Rossby waves changing their attitude I would put off to HAARP, not chemtrails. Eastlund, the person considered to be the initial patent holder for the HAARP design, said that it would be possible to change the jet stream. And so I guess the Rossby's would be in there with that, although don't take my word for it because it's not an area I've studied.

Here's a detailed breakdown of US aircraft movements (departures here, but we can assume most of them landed) from 1975 to 2010:

www.bts.gov...

Shows a rough doubling since 1975. Large hubs have remains pretty stagnant since the mid 90s, but there has been significant growth in medium and small hubs.

This explains somewhat why more people see contrails, besides the increase in air traffic, there's more routes being opened up between the medium and small hubs, so more of the country is covered by direct air routes.

I've made this graph of the US departures statistics from the link above.


It shows the overall increase, and how much of the recent increase is not in the large hubs.

reply to post by Uncinus


I read, with interest, your DOT offerrings. DOT, for non-U.S., is Department of Transportation, a government agency.

So, if I'm clear, you're telling me now that while traffic at larger airports is down or flat, traffic at smaller and very small airports is up. And that's why the DOT figures are up and mine, from reporting airports, are down.

I thought I read on your link that DOT doesn't include intrastate (within the state) and isn't that some of what the smaller airports handle?

I don't want to totally discount government figures (after all they give us such accurate un-employment numbers) but I remain sceptical.

Do you suppose they're counting Evergreen operations in this? That would be a smaller airport.

But, I will agree that there are some sectors involving flights that are up. Military flights are up. Military and government cargo flights are up. Cloud seeding flights are up. Weather modification flights are up. Drone flights are up. Atmospheric testing flights are up.

reply to post by luxordelphi


I live near 3 airports within a 35-40 mile radius have done ALL my life, When I was a young lad in the late 60's you would see far less aircraft than today it has steadily built up over the years, with most of my neighbours taking 1 or 2 holidays abroad (yes even NOW) and a couple of neighbours like me having to do 10+ business flights in a year people fly a lot more now than in the past which the chemtrailers always hark back to

What I suggest YOU do is find out average aircraft flying heights over the decades

As for your UK weather comments I have lived with it for 5 decades HAVE YOU we can get all the seasons in one day and have done as long as I can remember and its not due to contrails

Originally posted by luxordelphi
I will agree that there are some sectors involving flights that are up. Military flights are up. Military and government cargo flights are up. Cloud seeding flights are up. Weather modification flights are up. Drone flights are up. Atmospheric testing flights are up.

Obviously the number of military flights will vary considerable according to operations.

Cloud seeding and weather mod are the same thing, carried out by light aircraft like Cessnas. We don't get any in Britain. Drones are only tested here in the Hebrides so irrelevant to this discussion. I'm sure atmospheric test flights are up over 20 or 30 years ago, but we're still only talking at best a few dozen around the world every year.

And you forgot to say that Google aerial photographic flights are up

But apart from military flights (which still pale into insignificance compared with commericial air traffic) all this is irrelevant.

And incidently, long haul flights are more likely to produce contrails since they usually fly higher than short haul. In Britain a persistent contrail is more likely to be produced by a flight from Paris to Montreal than one from Bristol to Birmingham

reply to post by luxordelphi

Anytime that you want to support your wild claim that air traffic has decreased, feel free to do so.

Specifically when did this happen?

A bunk science was invented, overnight, by morons, to explain it.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


It is very easy to find hard data about air traffic. It is impossible to find hard data about the number of "chemtrails" spotted. There is no point in arguing this one.

reply to post by wmd_2008

I live near 3 airports within a 35-40 mile radius have done ALL my life

I currently live within easy distance of 8+ airports. Occassionaly I live within easy distance of 39+- airports. Growing up, I lived, alternately, within easy distance of 1 airport and within easy distance of 20+- airports. My family and extended family and friends travel and have travelled and continue to travel globally. I'm not sure where we're going with this but...there it is.

What I suggest YOU do is find out average aircraft flying heights over the decades

If you have a point to prove with this statement, why don't you do it?

As for your UK weather comments I have lived with it for 5 decades HAVE YOU we can get all the seasons in one day and have done as long as I can remember and its not due to contrails

I have lived in all climates except tropical and arctic. Again, not sure where this is going but I'll wait patiently for you to make your point.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by DenyObfuscation

 

It is very easy to find hard data about air traffic. It is impossible to find hard data about the number of "chemtrails" spotted. There is no point in arguing this one.

It's impossible to find a definition of what a "chemtrail" is - it varies from person to person and often changes nature several times within a single thread.

Apart from something that looks and acts like a normal contrail, what IS a chemtrail?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

As for your UK weather comments I have lived with it for 5 decades HAVE YOU we can get all the seasons in one day and have done as long as I can remember and its not due to contrails

I have lived in all climates except tropical and arctic. Again, not sure where this is going but I'll wait patiently for you to make your point.

I think the point is that Britain has a quite unique climate - very different to the USA, Canada, India, Brazil, China, Australia and continental Europe. If you haven't spent years here, then you may not appreciate how quickly it can change, And how varied the prevalence of contrails is.

Of course, if you haven't lived here you may also not appreciate just what it is live to live under the busiest airspace in the world.

reply to post by AndyMayhew

And incidently, long haul flights are more likely to produce contrails since they usually fly higher than short haul. In Britain a persistent contrail is more likely to be produced by a flight from Paris to Montreal than one from Bristol to Birmingham

That's the story and that's the claim: that X's, grid patterns and just general toxic sky are produced by what is well known to be a rare and unusual event. That event: a single craft, or up to half a dozen single craft, though not in proximity to each other, arrive, individually, at a perfect altitude and a perfect humidity, without a front (pardon me while I talk about conditions outside the UK for a moment - I know you've almost always got a front), and produce grid patterns. And that this rare and unusual event has morphed into an everyday thing in some areas.

The study of contrails took off in WWII because their visibility endangered airmen. In our current world, there is probably very little that is unknown about contrails except, possibly, their interaction with the stratosphere.

Chemtrails, on the other hand, are a fairly recent and evolving science. To take you back a bit to a time before I, personally, had noticed grids in the sky, here's an article from 1999:

Chemtrails Over America

The possibility that normal jet contrails are being laid down by US Air Force tanker aircraft has been shot down by a high-ranking American military official. In a recent letter to a Washington State chemtrail sufferer, Major General Gregory Barlow of the Office the Adjutant General stated that "Our KC-135 jet aircraft operate at altitude below 33,000 feet which is typically the altitude where jet contrails form."

Hundreds of photographs, a box of videotapes and my own observations of the spray planes operating over Vancouver Island off Canada's west coast confirm that unmarked, all-white tanker-type aircraft are often laying thick billowing 'trails over American communities at altitudes often below 10,000 feet. At such low altitudes, it is impossible for normal contrails to form because there are no ice-crystals in the air to be nudged by wingtip vortices and hot engines into condensation trails.

While occasionally known to linger in "cloud corridors" formed by constant jet traffic over heavily-flown air routes, according to the FAA, normal contrails usually dissipate harmlessly within 45 seconds like the wake behind a boat.

So while the highly unusual event of a persistent contrail can happen and did happen in WWII because of weather, altitude and masses of craft flying together, it is not everyday. Chemtrails, on the other hand, are everyday and there is considerable material devoted to their study and ongoing improvement.

I think the point is that Britain has a quite unique climate - very different to the USA, Canada, India, Brazil, China, Australia and continental Europe. If you haven't spent years here, then you may not appreciate how quickly it can change, And how varied the prevalence of contrails is.

And it's a good point, however, the U.S. is a big place and doesn't have a climate. It has a number of climates from Alaska to the Chesapeake, to Hawaii, to the Smokey Mts., to Zion, Yellowstone etc. - I could go on and on. Abrupt weather changes, believe it or not, exist outside of the UK.

Today, of course, there is climate change in that while we, here, are in heat and drought, other parts of the northern hemisphere world have yet to see a summer. So let's not mix that into this because that'll just give us too many plates in the air to ever be able to state anything with certaintly.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by DenyObfuscation

 

It is very easy to find hard data about air traffic. It is impossible to find hard data about the number of "chemtrails" spotted. There is no point in arguing this one.

Depends on how you look at it I guess. He made a wild claim to support his argument then when called on it says he doesn't make wild claims. I see a point to this. If he can't support that claim he should just admit he was wrong.

Originally posted by The X

Truth is, by the time you guys have realised all along we were right, your kids will be suffering from the effects, they are being poisoned daily, and you are compliant in that.

IF they are spraying, how do they do it so that it only targets those not in power?

I think kids have more pressing issues regarding being poisoned daily, other than 'chemtrails': Diet, dumbing-down, submission, the poison of paranoia (particularly relevant here), the economy, the military, the education system, everything's poisoning one or another of us.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


Dear Hall Monitor: so sorry I haven't made it to class yet. Truth is, I've found nothing in the hasty outrageously persistent contrail 'science' bunk that I can use in my life. It's kind of like learning about imaginary numbers: let's say Jane loans Joe a crate of blue oranges, which Spot, Jane's dog, eats, before Joe can utilize them. Jane's dog turns blue, the Washington Post publishes a story saying that blue oranges don't exist and Jane wants Joe to pay for the oranges or give back a crate, equal to what was loaned.

Sounds kind of messy, doesn't it? It's that old tangled web.

Anytime that you want to support your wild claim that air traffic has decreased, feel free to do so.

You haven't been paying attention. I have supported it, rather well. Others have international flights leaving from small airports in increasing numbers while the numbers from large airports continue to drop. Just because DOT and others say that commercial air traffic is increasing doesn't make it so. Read the news: airlines are failing, unless they're government involved. Why doesn't anyone cite commercial China air traffic? Hasn't that increased? A communist country has always allowed its' people to travel freely, hasn't it?

reply to post by luxordelphi


Chemtrails Over America provides no sources for the statements you quoted. Massive fail.

Originally posted by ProtectedWitness
I support this spraying. Ever since they started spraying in my area, I have had more energy, a renewed sense of creativity, and overall better health. I hope they keep it up. The reason why the pilots agree to spraying is because they are aware of the benefits. I have a feeling this has remained a secret because we don't want our enemies to know of our super-spray.

I agree 100%!! I'm over 50 years old and i've been feeling awesome. I attribute my new found vigor to the spraying from above. Even my eyesight has improved! I threw my eye glasses away!!! What ever they're spraying, it's good. I wish they would make it into a cologne.

Originally posted by Human_Alien
What I am saying is the footage speaks for itself.
To deny this is to derail reality.....so, you don't want to be a member of delusion do ya?

Am i the only one seeing the creepy factor of this statement? Who is delusional?

Originally posted by jude11
Always been a believer. Thank you.

When I see my clear blue sky become filled with 'trails' within an hour and then have a haze that covers the sun for hours, I have to wonder how it looks in the city, near airports...

Since I am NO WHERE NEAR A CITY OR AIRPORT...how does it happen in my sky this summer and not once in the last 50 years?

Peace

You needn't be near an airport to see contrails. In fact, you might see less contrails as you get closer to an airport because the aircraft are generally at lower altitudes - they're either coming in for a landing or just lifted off.

Also, aircraft fly airways (like roads in the sky) between their departure and destination points. Depending on where you live, you may be underneath a very busy portion of this roadway in the sky.