Chemtrail Tanker Air Show For The Skeptics

reply to post by AndyMayhew

Which reminds me, has anyone ever come up with even a half-baked theory as to why so-called chemtrails should be visible from the ground, unless they are comprised of ice crystals?

Do you even read what people post or are you just so closed minded you forget?

Let me make it big and bold so you don't miss this half baked theory.

HYGROSCOPY

Look it up.

Geoengineering

4.2.4 Thrust Augmentation via Sulfuric Acid Injection

In the case of the present system, a significant quantity of sulfuric acid will be stored on the aircraft and ejected into the atmosphere during flight. This liquid could be injected into the engine to provide additional thrust at high altitudes to combat thrust lapse. As discussed in the previous section elevated sulfur content is detrimental to engine component life, and consequently traditional liquid injection techniques (compressor inlet injection) would not be appropriate for this system.

However, some thrust augmentation may be realizable by injecting the sulfuric acid downstream of the turbine, in a manner similar to a modern afterburner. By this approach, to achieve thrust increases the turbine exhaust gases must be hot enough to vaporize the sulfuric acid.

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus


And would that be visible?

Not only that, but since it is being "injected" into the exhaust....where are these tanks of sulphuric acid on board aircraft? Be difficult to hide, since they require filling and pumping systems, need to be made of acid resistant materials.

Where are the tankers loading it onto he aircraft? Why aren't there lots of people standing around in hazmat suits??

I'd say "half baked" was a fairly optimistic description - someone saw a word somewhere and decided to use it....but hasn't really put any thought into what it would actually require in real life.

What was the question?

Oh yes now I remember.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

And would that be visible?

Yes darling. Due to the hygroscopic nature of sulfuric acid. It would attract the moisture in the air and form ice crystals just like your beloved contrails do.

Where are the tankers loading it onto he aircraft? Why aren't there lots of people standing around in hazmat suits??

To answer your second question you edited in. Other materials like salts also have the same hygroscopic quality. Private or military aircraft flown from private or military airfields would make it quite easy to conceal.

I'd say "half baked" was a fairly optimistic description - someone saw a word somewhere and decided to use it....but hasn't really put any thought into what it would actually require in real life.

Your ignorance never ceases to astound me.

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus

Yes darling. Due to the hygroscopic nature of sulfuric acid. It would attract the moisture in the air and form ice crystals just like your beloved contrails do.

Then why aren't chemtrails yellow?

Originally posted by IpsissimusMagus

I have plenty of evidence.

A jar left outside for a month?
Soil samples showing no unusual levels of anything?
"Water samples" which are actually mud samples?

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus


So 'chemtrails' are normal contrails, except that there is suphuric acid in the ice?

For what purpose? And don't say geoengineering to replicate the way sulphur aerosols from volcanic eruptions cool the atmosphere, since in order for that to work the suphur would need to be injected into the stratosphere - much higher than the contrails which some claimm to chemtrails form - and, to be most effective, would be dispered around the equator. Spraying them over the USA and Europe would be as effective as a small sheet of litmus paper is at soaking up a major oil spill.

And besides, what you call chemtrails produce a small net increase in atmospheric temp - it's one of the reasons we study them to find ways of preventing them forming.

Edit: the only purpose I can think of is to cause acid rain. Which is in fact declining in the areas where 'chemtrails' are most prevalent (in itself proving that sulphur in any form cannot be involved - a downside of the whole geoengineering idea is that it would lead to increased acid rain)

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Ask yourself: why is it so important for there to be increased air traffic? An increase in air traffic is mentioned in almost every article and study about outrageously persistent contrails. There HAS to be an increase in air traffic for this bunk 'science' of outrageously persistent contrails to live another day. And the increase has to be quite a bit more than you might think. A decrease in air traffic is death to outrageously persistent contrails unless they are chemtrails. Chemtrails can be made by one plane using hygroscopic particles. Seeking water. Absorbing water. Attracting water.

Did colossal WWII bombing raids alter weather?

"The classic conditions for contrails is just ahead of a warm front," said Rob MacKenzie one of the Lancaster researchers now at the University of Birmingham. "To get really persistent cloudiness due to aircraft you really need to be flying the aircraft through air that is ready to form a cloud, supersaturated."

(This sound-bite of the day has been brought to you by a citizen concerned about chemical skies.)

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Ask yourself: why is it so important for there to be increased air traffic? An increase in air traffic is mentioned in almost every article and study about outrageously persistent contrails. There HAS to be an increase in air traffic for this bunk 'science' of outrageously persistent contrails to live another day.

No, there has to be an increase in air traffic for there to be an increase in the NUMBER of contrails, and hence the amount of cloud cover they generate. Contrail induced cirrus has gradually increased since the 1950s entirely in line with the increase in air traffic (and a few other factors, but it's mostly the increase in air traffic).

Their individual persistence is unchanged. They are just clouds, so they last as long as clouds last.

There are hundreds of samples taken daily. Nothing abnormal is showing up in these tests. That IS proof that there is no chemical spraying going on. Are there some seeding tests or similar going on sometimes? Perhaps. Is there massive spraying that leaves grids on the sky and causes huge fogs of chemicals over cities? No, of course not. The proof IS there that it does not happen.

reply to post by Uncinus


Air traffic has decreased. Outrageously persistent contrails have increased. But, not to worry, the Air Force explains why there are grid lines in the sky:

Ghost Writers in the Sky

The Air Force goes on to report that contrails are safe, natural, and can result in grid patterns due to wind dispersal.

So the wind is creating grid patterns. If you'll believe this, you'll believe anything and deserve to be decieved.

Originally posted by luxordelphi


Air traffic has decreased. Outrageously persistent contrails have increased.

So the wind is creating grid patterns. If you'll believe this, you'll believe anything and deserve to be decieved.

What?? Since when has air traffic "decreased" ?? seriously, do you just make things up to try and validate your nonsense?

Air Traffic has increased every year almost without exception since 1980 (exceptions being 1991 and 2001)

There is more passenger and cargo traffic than EVER before...thus, one would expect more contrails than EVER before...

www.webmeets.com...

en.mercopress.com...


Watch a days worth of air traffic in the US- see any grid patterns?

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus

Since it was your suggestion. How about you provide a viable way to accomplish it.

Well since you asked you should start here...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now you can get the answers you look for.

reply to post by IpsissimusMagus

If you choose to ignore every single piece of evidence you have been given for the past two years it's obvious you're not interested in evidence at all. You can keep living in your bubble of denial if it makes you feel better.

And yet you ignore the evidence that has been around as long as planes have been flying, so it is obvious your not interested in evidence at all. By the way can you show any, and I do mean any scientific evidence that hasn't already been thoroughly discussed and debunked that proves chemtrail existence?

Take your time, I think your going to need it.

reply to post by Thorazine

What?? Since when has air traffic "decreased" ?? seriously, do you just make things up to try and validate your nonsense?

Yeah - seriously. I don't make stuff up. I don't have to. Truth is always stranger than fiction. But here, doubting Thomas, just to give you an idea of how much of an increase in air traffic there has to be to create grid lines, read:

WWII Contrail Story

During a raid in March 1944, the eight hundred RAF bombers carrying out a mission against Nuremberg were flying below 25,000 feet and ordinarily would not have generated contrails. For whatever meteorological reason, aircraft in the raiding formations left a heavy stream of contrails that could easily be seen in the evening’s bright moonlight.

In addition to helping bombers and fighters locate each other, contrails at times impeded bomber operations. An attacking force of a thousand heavy bombers included four thousand powerful engines that were pumping moisture into the upper atmosphere. As a result, large American bomber formations were literally capable of changing the cloud cover along the routes they traversed.

According to Roger A. Freeman, historian of “Mighty” Eighth Air Force, one such attack took place on March 18, 1945, when the Eighth sent 1,328 bombers against Berlin. “The jets took full advantage of the hazy day with contrails at altitude persisting and merged.

As a boy, Roger Freeman experienced first hand the awe-inspiring passage overhead of a massive bomber formation. “Seeing hundreds of aircraft trailing contrails was an extraordinary sight.”

He was especially impressed during a “freezing” morning early in 1945 when at the age of fifteen he saw the “contrails of a thousand bombers forming in the sky at one time.”

Although there were literally more planes than he could count, he knew that the number of bombers forming up had to be about a thousand because he could count twenty-eight groups and knew that each group consisted of thirty to forty bombers.

A German description of a massive raid by more than 1,100 American bombers against Leipzig on July 7, 1944, noted that the German population was warned of the attack as the bomber force approached the Munster-Osnabruck area. According to this report, “it was a beautifully clear day. Dense condensation trails could be seen up in the stratosphere. There was a continuous deep roaring of the bomber formations.”

“Ahead and above us the armada on dress parade let fly vapor trails like royal plumes. Mechanical things when they are grand as plumed fortresses flashing in the morning become endowed with divine invincibility.”

Now that's an increase in air traffic. And a subsequent increase in hygroscopic particles. But, alas, for the most part, still no good without an already existant weather front.

Originally posted by luxordelphi


So the wind is creating grid patterns. If you'll believe this, you'll believe anything and deserve to be decieved.

Whats not to believe...its basic logic- in an area conducive to contrail persistence- multiple planes along similar and/or perpendicular paths will leave multiple persistent contrails that drift with the upper winds.

One plane leaves a contrail- it drifts with the wind...a few minutes later another plane on the same path leaves a contrails...perhaps another plane flies perpendicular and Voila! a "grid"

You can see for yourself- play with this model- adjust the parameters and make your grid:

contrailscience.com...

See?? learning is FUNdamental.



Can you explain why this wouldn't explain a grid pattern in the sky- especially with over 5000 planes in the sky at any given moment in the US...??

reply to post by luxordelphi

So the wind is creating grid patterns. If you'll believe this, you'll believe anything and deserve to be decieved.

Well that is one way to create the grid pattern or there is another way...



Wow, planes flying in different directions, that is absurd...

Originally posted by luxordelphi


Yeah - seriously. I don't make stuff up.

you are either trolling or simply bereft of basic comprehension and logic skills..

All your quotes showed was that persistent contrails were experienced in in WW2.

They spoke nothing to the amount of air traffic experienced today and the growth of air traffic over the last 30yrs.

There are over 30,000 flights PER DAY in the US alone. Since when as air traffic decreased?

You said air traffic has "decreased". It has NOT. You are either lying or woefully ignorant- which is it?

Grid can form pretty much everywhere in the US, and they WILL form if weather conditions are right. Traffic is crossing within 100 miles of pretty much any spot you can pick in the US.

Try it, here's 24 hours of normal everyday traffic over the US. Pick a spot where you saw a suspicious grid form, and see if there's any flights crossing nearby.



And remember two things:

A) Winds aloft can blow at over 100 mph. So in two hours a contrail can be 200 miles from where the plane was.
B) Most contrails you can see in the sky are well over 30 miles away.



And as a more specific example, here's a detailed look at one day's flights over Mt Shasta, CA.

metabunk.org...

reply to post by Thorazine


Not open to logic and reason, are we? Got to stick with our psuedo-science at all costs, do we? You don't want someone to explain to you why a grid pattern in the sky is not possible without the addition of chemicals. Unless it's a thousand bombers in tight formation, there aren't enough hygroscopic particles to create anything but a fluke, here for a few minutes and then gone, contrail. Unless there's a front. And even with the thousand bombers, it usually took a front anyway.

This is the tragedy of man. We don't learn from history. And so any ignorant NSA pied piper can string us along. And so far, on this entertainment forum, I've never been wrong in my first assessment of intent and agenda.

Originally posted by luxordelphi

You don't want someone to explain to you why a grid pattern in the sky is not possible without the addition of chemicals. Unless it's a thousand bombers in tight formation, there aren't enough hygroscopic particles to create anything but a fluke, here for a few minutes and then gone, contrail. Unless there's a front. And even with the thousand bombers, it usually took a front anyway.

Sorry, you just do not make any sense...whatsoever.

Contrails often persist and spread. Even your bomber quotes show that. It doesn't take but 3 or 4 planes leaving persistent contrails to make it look like a grid.

There is no way any rational person can look at Uncinus' simple, yet detailed explanation and not see how it is possible for a grid to form without "1000 bombers"

Its not "pseudo-science"- anyone can prove to themselves what happens when water vapor condenses and freezes into ice crystals in humid air. If the air is saturated with respect to ice, it is physically IMPOSSIBLE for the ice crystals to dissipate (sublimate).

Can you explain why yours beliefs contradict the known physics of the natural world as well as decades of research from atmospheric scientists from around the World?

Can you provide ANY substantive scientific references that back up your claims?