IDF to train Camera men

And for once people will finally get to see how the IDF conducts itself against armed combatants, but, perhaps more importantly, it will be seen how armed combatants deliberately shoot from crowded areas in order to increase civilian casualties.

Link

reply to post by dontreally

Umm.. You are seeing where the article says these are fully armed and trained members of the Israeli Defense Force, right? You think there is a snowball's chance in a hot place that they'll ever willingly release footage damaging to their fellow soliders? Would our guys?? We had civilians embed with us and that caused no end of headaches. Israel is just changing the MOS rate for some of their soldiers and giving them 8 months combat photo training. I'll bet the difference in what the public sees is night and day with almost no comparisons to the U.S. journalist programs. ...at least not since the Combat journalists of World War II.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Umm.. You are seeing where the article says these are fully armed and trained members of the Israeli Defense Force, right? You think there is a snowball's chance in a hot place that they'll ever willingly release footage damaging to their fellow soliders?

Israel is lambasted left,right and center for things that simply aren't happening; genocides, civilian causalities etc. Israel's soldiers during Cast Lead complained that Hamas terrorists shot at them from within crowded areas. Do you see the moral issue with this? The campaign was started because Hamas terrorists were shooting thousands of rockets into Israel leading to the deaths of hundreds of Jewish civilians. Forcing the IDF to respond. They went into the strip with the stated goal of dismantling Hamas' military apparatus, but what they weren't prepared for was the suicidal tactics both it's armed combatants and it's "citizenry" were willing to go; Citizens would WILLFULLY stand idly by in public areas while enemy combatants shot through at IDF troops, forcing an IDF response (lest you expect them to die to avoid killing "civilians" - who are clearly complicit by allowing terrorists to use them as shields for the purpose of increasing the casualty count for propaganda purposes after the fighting ends) - this is the main cause of the large number of civilians killed. It was DESIGNED by Hamas, which one diplomat called a 'cruel calculus of death', to defeat Israel psychologically. Which appears to be working quite well.

On another note, terrorists have no rules of engagement, hence, they are terrorists. While Israel not only abides by international law, they also go a step further in their military doctrine of Purity of Arms.

America has yet to face an enemy as twisted as Islamists. The problem with fighting them is simply put their love of death, as Islamist's sat time and again:

"We love death more than you love life." -- Major Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 13 and wounding of 30 fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, TX

"I want to destroy everything here as they did the Al Aqsa mosque. It's a symbol of occupation. Destroying it is a symbol of Islam." -- Mahmoud Malahi speaking about destroying Jewish settlements in the name of Islam

It's the publics total ignorance of Islamic metaphysics, it's worship of the absolute, to find annihilation in the absolute, to be destroyed and resurrected within it's consuming flames, that spurs the Islamist to go to whatever extremes fathomable to meet Islams absolute goals. This is a FACT and this is what the IDF has to deal with when it fights Islamist's in the Gaza strip and the West bank.

Because it is so clearly immoral to shoot at troops from crowded areas, it is IMPERATIVE that Israel film all it's campaigns.

reply to post by dontreally


reply to post by dontreally

"We love death more than you love life." -- Major Nidal Malik Hasan, who killed 13 and wounding of 30 fellow soldiers at Fort Hood, TX


"I want to destroy everything here as they did the Al Aqsa mosque. It's a symbol of occupation. Destroying it is a symbol of Islam." -- Mahmoud Malahi speaking about destroying Jewish settlements in the name of Islam

oh those evil, evil muslims. How dare they?
I wish muslims could become nice people like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.... and say nice things like


"The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews"

or


"Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created."

or

“In Israel, death has no dominion over them... With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew."

or


"Gentiles were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel."


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you go around looking at goys and thinking they were born to serve you?

I hope quoting the words of Jewish Rabbis isn't too anti-semitic for you.

reply to post by dontreally

Hey dontreally!

Originally posted by dontreally
The campaign was started because Hamas terrorists were shooting thousands of rockets into Israel leading to the deaths of hundreds of Jewish civilians. Forcing the IDF to respond.

Hundreds of Jewish civilians? I think you'll find that 15 (from 2001, when the rocket attacks started to 2009) is not hundreds. And to say they were "forced to respond", as if they'd been sitting idly praying and asking them nicely to stop before that point is a bit funny. No matter what you say about "following international law" (which they don't- phosphorous attacks and carpet bombing of civilian areas is one example), and having "Purity of arms" (which honestly, is just sweet words that mean nothing to the soldiers on the ground, or the hawkish rabbis egging them on), the fact of the matter is, Israeli killing of Palestinian civilians outnumber Palestinian/Hamas killing of Israeli civilians by the order of hundreds. Painting them as the good guys in this fight (note that I do not call Hamas the good guys either) is laughable.

reply to post by dontreally


International laws have been broken by countries all around the world. Israel is no different. To say that Israel is completely innocent of international laws, is blatant propaganda.

think Syrian rebels lately.. they can turn pretty much any scene into positive propaganda for them into Anti-Assad rhetoric, i'd imagine that tactic is working so well that israel figures if Iran did launch a successful attack which put Israel on the defensive then they would need to be constantly publishing propaganda videos for the outside world attacking whomever

reply to post by dontreally


Wow.
Now lets think back to the Israeli spokesman denying that they were using white phosphorous against Palestinian people live on air, while we could see it falling from the sky right over his shoulder.

And then lets think about the observers who were controlled, restricted and lied to on the ground after the international community demanded reporters be permitted to enter Gaza during the conflict.

Then lets think about the Israeli government shutting off media microphones in press conferences when they were not asking nice questions that the regime could answer.

Lets also remember that Israeli government kill squads used fake passports of real British citizens to travel to another country to murder a Hamas official in a hotel.

Yeah, I really trust the IDF to show their actions.

I don't think any state uses propaganda, espionage and black ops like Israel does. If an Israeli government official told me the sky is blue, I would look up to check, then I'd wonder how they were lying or what they were hiding.

Originally posted by dontreally
Israel is lambasted left,right and center for things that simply aren't happening; genocides, civilian causalities etc.

Let me correct you on something...

Israel is lambasted because Israel is an occupying force, stealing land from its neighbor, imprisoning an entire population, murdering the civilians of other nations arriving by boat to give aid, and repeatedly refusing to follow international law. Those are just a few of the reasons Israel is lambasted, and rightly so.

The French were occupied in WW2, and we all celebrate the efforts of the Resistance for the work they did. Why is it acceptable for the French Resistance to be seen as heroes against the occupying German forces, but when the people of occupied Gaza respond to their aggressors they are called "terrorists"?

I do not agree with Hamas firing rockets into Israel. Of course this is not acceptable. But in the grand scheme of things, with the massive suffering of the Palestinian people at the hands of their aggressive neighbor, I don't blame them!

If the British government was treating Scotland the way Israel treats Gaza I would hope they would fight back with everything they had!

Get out of Gaza, then maybe Israel would not be under attack. Keep stealing from other nations, and they'll keep fighting you in every single way they can. If I were in Gaza I would be doing exactly the same thing, and so would you.

Sure, this will depict the IDF unbiasedly. Similiar to how the imbedding of reporters with the US military worked the same way in Iraq. The only difference will be that these will not only essentially be imbedded into the IDF but trained and employed by the IDF. A 3 year old would be able to predict the outcome of this.

reply to post by babloyi

Hundreds of Jewish civilians? I think you'll find that 15 (from 2001, when the rocket attacks started to 2009) is not hundreds.

Saying 15 dead is quite misleading given in just 4 short years, between 2000 and 2004, 1,063 Israeli civlians were killed by Palestinian suicide bombers, most of them either of the fatah Al Aqsa brigades or Hamas.

Whether it be shooting rockets over the border, or sending in a suicide bomber to blow himself in a public place, both warrant an Israeli military response. They don't need to cross the border in order to face the penalty for attacking another nations citizenry.

And to say they were "forced to respond", as if they'd been sitting idly praying and asking them nicely to stop before that point is a bit funny.

This image people have of the IDF barging into a palestinian town or city, brandishing their m15's before innocent civilians, shooting people for fun, assaulting children, and committing other war crimes, what is the basis for this? What logic is there for Israel to do these things when the international media is obsessively eying Israel scrutinizing every move they make? Conversely, Hamas is a terrorist organization which engages in the most putrid form of warfare - targeting of civilians, specifically.

Israel gets more reprimands from the UN's "human rights council" than all offending nations with FAR WORST HUMAN RIGHTS RECORDS i.e. Sudan, Nigeria, North Korea, China, Myanmar, Iran - PUT TOGETHER - and yet you sit here admonishing me and casting me as an exaggerator. Just look and see for yourself.

Hamas refutes the existence of ANY JEWISH STATE. Fatah declared they would accept Israel - leaving out the important article of "as a Jewish state" to remind his followers that they are only playing political games with the Israelis to keep them desirous of finding a peace.

No matter what you say about "following international law" (which they don't- phosphorous attacks and carpet bombing of civilian areas is one example),

Israel doesn't carpet bomb. Where the f.uck do you get that? They did in Lebanon back in 1982 (along with white phosphorus) and you can check UN condemnations of their use of it. Since then, Israel has mostly engaged in specific targeting of Palestinian areas designed to avoid killing civilians.

Again, show me just ONE OTHER COUNTRY with a military doctrine as humanitarian as the Israeli Purity of Arms. Find me another country that disallows - by law - any form of physical torture (and can't get around it like the US does by shipping prisoners to countries where torture is legal - such as Egypt or Morocco) - this law being passed in 1999, and yet Israel is condemned more for torture when unlike so many other nations, they have laws against it, whereas the others do not, but in fact have a reputation for killing prisoners via torture/deprivation.

(which honestly, is just sweet words that mean nothing to the soldiers on the ground, or the hawkish rabbis egging them on),

LOL... coming from a muslim, or a Muslim apologist, that is HILARIOUS. First, the vast majority, about 70% of IDF soldiers are secular. They could care less what Rabbis have to say. Second, the Purirty of Arms doctrine is a mandatory protocol that every Israeli soldier is trained to follow. If for instance he's shot at from a group of people, he's to wait until the areas cleared before he makes any shot. He's also forced to go to much greater lengths than other soldiers in distinguishing combatants from non-combatants - meaning, they have to wait to be shot at before they shoot back. No military on planet earth instructs their soldiers thusly except Israel.

Not surprisingly, that is ignored, in fact, suppressed, while a complete fabricated picture of the exact opposite is meticulously created by psychotic muslim extremists and their willing cohorts - the vast majority of 'civilians' living in the gaza strip. As Alan dershowitz said, the seperation between combatant and non-combatant in areas which subscribe to a Islamist-Jihadist doctrine must be reassessed; the citizens help and abate the efforts of the terrorists, and so, are essentially as deadly as the terrorists themselves. Contrary to the norm, there is a continuity here between combatant and non-combatant.

Painting them as the good guys in this fight (note that I do not call Hamas the good guys either) is laughable.

What's laughable is your pathetic sense of morality. SHOOTING FROM A CROWDED AREA IN ORDER TO INDUCE an Israeli response which will lead to the deaths of many "civilians" is a cold and calculated monstrosity that only someone equally morally absent, or indolent altogether fails to comprehend. Do you understand that? Will you acknowledge that Hamas does this? That their Islamist doctrine allows this?

You always skirt such points in order to twist things back in your direction, which proves how mendacious you are.

reply to post by dontreally

Originally posted by dontreally
Saying 15 dead is quite misleading given in just 4 short years, between 2000 and 2004, 1,063 Israeli civlians were killed by Palestinian suicide bombers, most of them either of the fatah Al Aqsa brigades or Hamas.

I'm sorry, dontreally, I'm not the one who brought up the rocket attacks, you did that, and I just responded.
But since you now are SPECIFICALLY bringing up Palestinian suicide bombers, I will SPECIFICALLY respond to that.
To the tune of I don't know where you're getting your numbers, but even Israel itself disagrees with them. It may possibly be you are considering all Israeli deaths by Palestinians (including in armed conflicts and of soldiers), as that seems the closest number, but I wouldn't know.

Israe l's OWN SOURCES show that there have been 502 deaths by suicide bombing from 2000-2004 (and while of course, for suicide bombings, the vast majority of victims are probably civilians, they still count the non-civilians as well). Contrast that to over 3200 Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli forces in the same time (in the interests of fairness, the TOTAL Israeli civilians killed in that time, by rockets, suicide attacks, etc. are about 900).

As much as one would like to dance with the numbers, the undisputable fact is that rocket attacks are declining, suicide attacks are declining, but Israeli attacks attacks are either the same, or on the rise (1.5 Palestinian civilians killed for every Israeli one in 2000, compared to 10 in 2007).

Originally posted by dontreally
Israel doesn't carpet bomb. Where the f.uck do you get that? They did in Lebanon back in 1982 (along with white phosphorus) and you can check UN condemnations of their use of it.

It doesn't but it did? And no, 1982 wasn't the last time. I think you're forgetting a little fracas that happened in 2006. So... It doesn't, but it does - which I think perfectly encapsulates Israel's attitude towards civilian deaths and war crimes . The same with this "Purity of Arms" thing you keep bringing up. It isn't worth the paper it is written on, if the IDF doesn't even care to follow it it. I don't quite see why you are bringing up written law, when it is completely contrary to what is actually happening. It is nothing more than a face-saving "look how honourable we are" document. Almost every country in the world with an army has a code of military ethics (whether or not they follow it), that involve such things as acting honourably and trying to limit civilian deaths.


I find it hilarious that you bring up Alan Dershowitz, though:
This would be the same guy who supports destruction of entire Palestinian villages if there is any one terrorist found to have originated from there. And if they can't find the village (or if they've already destroyed it), there will be a "waiting list" of Palestinian villages which will be totally destroyed.
This would be the guy who supports torture such as needles under the fingernails (for maximum pain).
And now this would be the guy who considers the term civilian "meaningless".

The malleability of the zionist sense of ethics is a sight to behold. They claim the moral higher-ground, and simultaneously suggest such blatant war crimes. As you have shown, even the liberals join in.

reply to post by babloyi


Dude, from your own source:

“1,220 people have been killed by Palestinian violence and terrorism since September 2000.”

But why start in the year 2000, when suicide bombers were blowing themselves up in the happy days of the Oslo accords?
Here is a list 1993-2000: (Mind you, Palestinian terror attacks go back as far as 1775)

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

reply to post by gravitational

Yes, if you pay attention, they are talking about attacks on BOTH civilian and military, AND they are talking about from 2000 up to NOW.
Guess what you'll find if check the same numbers for Palestinians killed, during that time? Or, as you suggest, through all time (and include non-Palestinians killed by Israelis or pre-Israelis, like how the link I provided also included foreigners)?

reply to post by babloyi


You can play the numbers game all day long if you wish.
As I said many times in the past, when you kill Israeli civilians with a gun, Israel will a bring a bigger one and then an even bigger one.
If you think that for every terrorist act, Israel should respond with equal measures, like a boxing competition, than think again.
Palestinians are notorious for whining while their terrorist acts are met with a strong response
|(just like some terrorists apologists on ATS) yet they still come back for more.

reply to post by gravitational

If you think that for every terrorist act, Israel should respond with equal measures, like a boxing competition, than think again.

That's an interesting point of view.
So basically, "anything goes" in a conflict?

reply to post by gravitational


Hamas fired a few rockets into Israel. What happens next? Israel decides to start a barrage of missiles, drop white phosphorus and start a new occupation. Equal eh?
And these fatal terrorist attacks.

The Israelis have had their share of violence and attacks. Settlers have been discriminating Palestinians and assaulting them for a long time.

reply to post by RimDaas

"Hamas fired a few rockets into Israel. What happens next? Israel decides to start a barrage of missiles”

A few ? Oh, you meant a few thousands !

"Equal eh? “

that's right ! Attack Israel and bear the consequence. Cause and effect. The low of the jungle.
For any cowardly terrorist bully out there, there is someone stronger who is willing to teach him a lesson and give him a taste of his own medicine.
Attack Israel and this is what you get, and again and again, until you stop.