Analysis: Obamacare to cost $2.6 trillion over first full decade

Am I missing something here?

Lets see.. Before Obamacare people had insurance if they got a job and worked and they pay for that insurance. If they dont have insurance we still treat them or the smart ones like some I know go get blue cross or something like that on their own. But we dont get penalized and we are not paying for something extra.

With Obamacare I am still paying for my insurance if I have a job that offers insurance. But now I will pay more taxes to cover Obamcare and if I lose my healthcare or work somewhere that doesnt have healthcare and I dont go get it on my own I will have to pay a penalty to the government in the form of a "tax". To enforce said tax we will have to hire a bunch of new IRS agents which has already started by the way, look it up. Which I am paying for again out of my taxes.

So both ways I pay, both ways I have insurance but one costs a lot more and at the end of the day I will get slower service at the doctor and I will have lost my freedom to chose what I want to do with my own healthcare? Is that pretty much it?

Oh and for those that dont know, part of the funding for this is a 3.8% tax on home sales. Not for everyone though, just for those people again that have a household income of 250k or more and that sell for more than 500K I believe it is. So people in areas that have insane home prices wont like this and those that make more money that me wont like this at all. But that is all part of the redistribution of wealth. Hell pretty soon I wont even have to work. Obama can take money from rich people and just give it to me. Where is the incentive to make something out of your life? Its not worth it, the government will just take your hard earned money so just sit back and wait for that government check and that government healthcare, the "go getters" will pay our way. Right?

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

I just think that people in the richest nation in the history of the planet should not have to rely on charity to get health care.

I understand what you are saying about self reliance and agree to a certain extent. However, i honestly see it as both abhorent and a crime against its own citizens that the nation with more cash than any before cannot even afford to look after its citizens health.

That may appear quite socialist to some of our American friends but believe me, over here that definitely isn't how i am seen!

I dont think you will find too many of us that dont think that healthcare needs looked at and that there is a lot that can be done there. But as you said. In the richest country in the world, we should be able to do it without taxing the crap out of the people. And remember, this isnt a healthcare plan. This is nothing more than a mandate to make you go get health care. They need to start looking into the skyrocketing prices of heath procedures. The way were trying to do it now is to force us to pay for something that is over inflated and ridiculous. This is like the government telling us we all have to go buy a Yugo at Mercedes prices and if we prefer to ride a bike then we get fined.

reply to post by TheTardis


ObamaCare mirrors the NHS in Great Britain.

It's a 2 Tier System:

Tier 1: The rich will receive the very best care immediately.

They can afford to make direct payments for all medical procedures performed.

-- no insurance --

Tier 2: Everyone else gets thrown into the ObamaCare Pit.

It's very, very crowded in the ObamaCare Pit. Doctors have quit and you need to take

a number. If you don't want to wait 3 months to see a doctor then fly to Mexico.

- Medical Tourism -

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by TheTardis

 

ObamaCare mirrors the NHS in Great Britain.

It's a 2 Tier System:

Tier 1: The rich will receive the very best care immediately.

They can afford to make direct payments for all medical procedures performed.

-- no insurance --

Tier 2: Everyone else gets thrown into the ObamaCare Pit.

It's very, very crowded in the ObamaCare Pit. Doctors have quit and you need to take

a number. If you don't want to wait 3 months to see a doctor then fly to Mexico.

- Medical Tourism -

I thought the GB system actually "offered" health care. Not just forced via mandate its people to go get healthcare.

Trust me I spent some time in Germany. I heard all about how those that wanted to pay extra got better care. That is what people dontt get. They think they will get the same type of care they get now when they absolutely will not.

reply to post by TheTardis


Doctors hate ObamaCare. They will be retiring early.

Fewer doctors + millions more thrown into the system = Take a number & Good Luck.

BTW, watch out for that - Death Panel -. They may send you home with a pain pill.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


That isn't how the NHS works at all. There is no 2 tier system healthcare. Some rich people pay for private health care but that is entirely separate from the NHS (except that the NHS doctors moonlight for extra cash!).

The NHS is paid for through general PAYE and National Insurance contributions rather than specific tax for health.

The NHS has a lot of faults but it is a wonderful organisation and one of the best things this country has ever done. Pretty much everyone over here thinks like that too, regardless of background.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Doctors hate ObamaCare. They will be retiring early.

Fewer doctors + millions more thrown into the system = Take a number & Good Luck.

BTW, watch out for that - Death Panel -. They may send you home with a pain pill.

""They may send you home with a pain pill"" ....

or a cyanide capsule implanted in your teeth

reply to post by TheTardis


Good point, i keep overlooking that this is simply a mandate. However, maybe that is because Obama knew that is the best he could get, at this stage?

I mean, look how popular this decision appears to be!

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

That isn't how the NHS works at all. There is no 2 tier system healthcare. Some rich people pay for private health care but that is entirely separate from the NHS (except that the NHS doctors moonlight for extra cash!).

The NHS is paid for through general PAYE and National Insurance contributions rather than specific tax for health.

The NHS has a lot of faults but it is a wonderful organisation and one of the best things this country has ever done. Pretty much everyone over here thinks like that too, regardless of background.

Thats what i was thinking. The NHS and other European systems actually fund the healthcare for the nation and some companies as you say offer insurance on top of the NHS. When I was in Germany though they said the people that paid for extra insurance didnt have as long of a wait at the doctor and things like that. That they got a little better service.

But Obamacare does nothing like that. It is just forcing us to buy our own insurance whether we like it or not.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

That isn't how the NHS works at all. There is no 2 tier system healthcare. Some rich people pay for private health care but that is entirely separate from the NHS (except that the NHS doctors moonlight for extra cash!).

The NHS is paid for through general PAYE and National Insurance contributions rather than specific tax for health.

The NHS has a lot of faults but it is a wonderful organisation and one of the best things this country has ever done. Pretty much everyone over here thinks like that too, regardless of background.

If you have clogged arteries and require an operation, how long do you have to wait?

In Canada they fly to Texas. There are 15 Medical Tourism companies in Canada.

They take care of everything. The flight to Texas - The Hotel - The Surgery - and the

return trip home to Canada.

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by Eurisko2012
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Doctors hate ObamaCare. They will be retiring early.

Fewer doctors + millions more thrown into the system = Take a number & Good Luck.

BTW, watch out for that - Death Panel -. They may send you home with a pain pill.

""They may send you home with a pain pill"" ....

or a cyanide capsule implanted in your teeth

You may be closer to the truth than you think. The elderly require expensive

medical procedures the last 6 months of their lives.

The Death Panel will send them the - Grim Reaper -.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Good point, i keep overlooking that this is simply a mandate. However, maybe that is because Obama knew that is the best he could get, at this stage?

I mean, look how popular this decision appears to be!

Nope.. Its because that is the only way he could fill the promises to the healthcare industry. He could get them new customers. A large portion of the wealthy dont have healthcare because they dont need it. They can pay out of pocket. Then people like me who are working contract right did not opt for the healthcare because it is too expensive and not very good through the contractor. Once I am on full time here I will take their healthcare but until then my check is larger, but at least I have that option.. For now.. This system is set up to where it can be abused by those without money. You cant get money from those without money so how is this mandate going to be enforced. Some of those that live off the system or just dont work. Lets say a stay at home mom with a husband on unemployment. Do they have to go get private healthcare that they cannot afford? Or pay a fine in the form of a tax at the end of the year? How are they going to pay the fine if they couldn't afford the insurance? Its just a mess.. Its not what we need. We need healthcare reform and this is in no way healthcare reform but so many people out there think it is going to give them free healthcare. They dont understand why people oppose it.

reply to post by xuenchen


Well, how much did it cost to bail out the banks in real dollars, not what they told us it cost. How much does it cost the American people when a lot of people are forced to declare bankruptcy because of medical bills in the USA. The true costs of everything aren't going to change overall, they are just going to show up on paper.

I do not like Obama's plan but I hate what we have now. I was an employer for many years and couldn't afford to supply healthcare because it would have raised my prices to the people who I wanted to work for, the lower middle class. I liked working for the regular people of the area, they are my kind of people. I hated the system we have now though and Obama care was better than what we presently have.

I think we need socialized medicine for the basic care here in the USA. A plan similar to Canada's system. Everyone qualifies for it. The government pays the salaries of the healthcare system and the doctors get bonuses for getting people fixed up faster. The present system rewards doctors and the medical system for keeping people sick. Sick people pay everyone's wages so take it from there. This system is easily corrupted by people getting a paycheck from the system even if they don't understand they are participating in the deceit. It will take a lot of time to change the conditioning of employees of the system to see that they have been misled by the industry and their teachings.

reply to post by TheTardis


ObamaCare is a huge financial burden on small businesses and private citizens

during a terrible economy. This is a disaster.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Well, how much did it cost to bail out the banks in real dollars, not what they told us it cost. How much does it cost the American people when a lot of people are forced to declare bankruptcy because of medical bills in the USA. The true costs of everything aren't going to change overall, they are just going to show up on paper.

I do not like Obama's plan but I hate what we have now. I was an employer for many years and couldn't afford to supply healthcare because it would have raised my prices to the people who I wanted to work for, the lower middle class. I liked working for the regular people of the area, they are my kind of people. I hated the system we have now though and Obama care was better than what we presently have.

I think we need socialized medicine for the basic care here in the USA. A plan similar to Canada's system. Everyone qualifies for it. The government pays the salaries of the healthcare system and the doctors get bonuses for getting people fixed up faster. The present system rewards doctors and the medical system for keeping people sick. Sick people pay everyone's wages so take it from there. This system is easily corrupted by people getting a paycheck from the system even if they don't understand they are participating in the deceit. It will take a lot of time to change the conditioning of employees of the system to see that they have been misled by the industry and their teachings.

Socialized medicine has many faults. See above post from the Brit.

We can do better.

Repeal ObamaCare and Replace with a solution that includes tort reform.

reply to post by TheTardis


Yes that is true. People that pay for private care tend to get seen quicker, have their own rooms (instead of being on a ward), etc. That said, they still pay towards the NHS so i personally do not have a problem with these particular people getting a quicker service - after all, they are, in effect, paying twice for health care.

That is an important distinction though. The service is quicker rather than better. Consultants and surgeons that work in private healthcare also work for the NHS, so the standard is the same.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Yes that is true. People that pay for private care tend to get seen quicker, have their own rooms (instead of being on a ward), etc. That said, they still pay towards the NHS so i personally do not have a problem with these particular people getting a quicker service - after all, they are, in effect, paying twice for health care.

That is an important distinction though. The service is quicker rather than better. Consultants and surgeons that work in private healthcare also work for the NHS, so the standard is the same.

So it IS a 2 Tier system.

Tier 1: Pay for private care and get seen immediately.

Tier 2: Take a number & Good luck. BTW, any rationing going on?

Oh and what about the " many faults"?

I think you are putting lipstick on a pig.

Socialized medicine won't work here in the USA. We can do better.

When ObamaCare is repealed the observation will be made that America tried

on a socialist suit and it did not fit.

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Yes that is true. People that pay for private care tend to get seen quicker, have their own rooms (instead of being on a ward), etc. That said, they still pay towards the NHS so i personally do not have a problem with these particular people getting a quicker service - after all, they are, in effect, paying twice for health care.

That is an important distinction though. The service is quicker rather than better. Consultants and surgeons that work in private healthcare also work for the NHS, so the standard is the same.

That what I was thinking and yea, I knew everyone still paid in. That sounds very similar to how the Germans were describing it and they were not all that happy with their system and the long waits for routine things. In contrast. I could call right now at 10:20am and probably get in to see my doctor this afternoon to have him look at a freckle or a scratch or for a sore toe or whatever. I could see him this afternoon. Or possibly in a hour or two if it is a slow day. Americans are use to that kind of attention. When people start having to wait a month or two or three it will be pure chaos.. I am not knocking the system you have though at all. I agree that the US could come up with something similar and I think more people would be behind it. The problem is that so many people right now in this country believe that Obamacare is somehow similar and it isnt even in the same time zone. Its not even on the same continent as the Euro systems. It isnt even healthcare. It is just a mandate forcing us to buy a product offered by privatized healthcare providers and fining us if we dont go buy it.

reply to post by Eurisko2012


Any Entity that gains from the misfortune of others will always subconsciously support the misfortune. The entities here are the Medical, Pharma, and insurance industries. This includes subconscious support from many of the employees of these industries at all levels.

Originally posted by Eurisko2012

Originally posted by Flavian
reply to post by TheTardis

 

Yes that is true. People that pay for private care tend to get seen quicker, have their own rooms (instead of being on a ward), etc. That said, they still pay towards the NHS so i personally do not have a problem with these particular people getting a quicker service - after all, they are, in effect, paying twice for health care.

That is an important distinction though. The service is quicker rather than better. Consultants and surgeons that work in private healthcare also work for the NHS, so the standard is the same.

So it IS a 2 Tier system.

Tier 1: Pay for private care and get seen immediately.

Tier 2: Take a number & Good luck. BTW, any rationing going on?

Oh and what about the " many faults"?

I think you are putting lipstick on a pig.

Socialized medicine won't work here in the USA. We can do better.

When ObamaCare is repealed the observation will be made that America tried

on a socialist suit and it did not fit.

edit on 13-7-2012 by Eurisko2012 because: (no reason given)

One thing is for sure. He did push us past the point of no return. Even if and when we repeal this pile of crap we will have to do something. There will have to be some kind of system put in place but I would like to see it take over the privatized system and fund it through the government and have set prices for procedures and service and fund it out of our tax dollars. They could easily expand medicare to cover us all. It would put the insurance business into turmoil though. That is the hard part. One way or another some industry is going to be hurt. But it is long overdue. They need to get a handle on things and we do need some type of healthcare system. But not this way. It needs to be done in a way that people can get behind and not feel like it is a punishment.