Middle East U.S. moving submersibles to Persian Gulf to oppose Iran

Things are definitely heating up in the Arabian Gulf, despite the comments on my thread from yesterday.

It sure seems the U.S. is trying to provoke Iran into striking first, and this movement of additional equipment makes me suspect that they think the plan is working.

LA Times

The Navy is rushing dozens of unmanned underwater craft to the Persian Gulf to help detect and destroy mines in a major military buildup aimed at preventing Iran from closing the strategic Strait of Hormuz in the event of a crisis, U.S. officials said.

Some U.S. officials are wary that Iran may respond to tightening sanctions on its banking and energy sectors, including a European Union oil embargo, by launching or sponsoring attacks on oil tankers or platforms in the Persian Gulf. Some officials in Tehran have threatened to close the narrow waterway, a choke point for a fifth of the oil traded worldwide.

Check out the article for a little more background on the submersibles.

The US has also sent some extra minesweepers to the Gulf as well as the USS Ponce, a "forward staging base ship' (really an amphibious transport dock) to use in MCM (Mine Counter Measures) Both these moves seem to be defense measures designed to counteract Iran attempting to close the Strait. These aren't offensive weapons with a lot of firepower. Indeed, the Ponce is manned half by civilians from the Military Sealift Command).

The US has also installed weaponry designed to counter a "swarm attack" of small inflatables against the larger ships in the US fleet. There have been a lot of changes since the attack on the USS Cole. It could get very ugly if Iran tried to close the strait. It's not a slam dunk for either side.

Oh no!

Not subs now?


Crying here now.

Originally posted by TruthMaster2You
Oh no! Not subs now? Crying here now.

Not worth crying about. These are submersibles, about 4 feet long and weigh 100 pounds. They can be dropped by helicopter. They have an explosive charge on them. Their sole purpose is to blow up mines. Unlike the mines, they aren't designed to kill people.



There may be real subs there, too. The Iranians have several small ones, but the average depth of the Persian Gulf is 160 feet, so your average Fast Attack submarine is going to have a hard time hiding out there. I can't find a height spec, but its draft is over 30 feet, so add the height of the sail and the rest of the hull and you're probably looking at about 100 feet.

This is only for if Iran decides to shut the straight.

The US has some of the best mine sweeping ships and equipment in the world.

and the US can play the game of mine warfare just as good as iran.

if iran wants to use mines the US can close there harbors in hours with quick-strike mines

www.fas.org...

Quick-strike mines use a standard bomb casing so a carrier only has to carry the bolt on conversion package.

Been there done that still have the End Sweep ships patch.
Operation End Sweep TF 78.6 Haiphong harbor sweep detail MSO 437
102msos.8m.net...

reply to post by ANNED

I think there is a very critical difference here.... The United States has mine warfare as a distant secondary capability of our fleet. Sure..we have mine sweeps still afloat, apparently, as we're sending some there. If the war lasts long enough I believe I've seen Mine Sweeps at the Oakland/Alameda Mothball yards as well. I'll bet we can muster up a number of them from deep freeze if needed.

The difference and problem is that Mine warfare is a specialty for us..one of hundreds...and we aren't masters at everything. No one is. Iran, on the other hand, only has 3 means to fight and they've focused everything they have on them, They can center around the straight and either foul it with sunken derelicts (the most effective move, IMO) or flood it with mines that only their ships can safely move all around. Notice, those toy ships everyone laughs at have something in common? I've never laughed one bit. They have a fleet designed very specifically for one thing and it's designed like a work of art for that ONE THING. That is to lay minefields and then operate IN THE MIDDLE of them when no one else has ships which can. They are clever.

Oh,, the other two methods are Missile forces, which Iran is second only to Israel herself for tech and they put Israel in the dirt for raw numbers of missiles they can put into the air. The last one is terrorism and well...do we even need to go there? lol....Hamas..Hezbollah,,the PLO/PLA..I'm sure they're watching for the phone to ring and the order is all they're holding on. Just my opinions.

Originally posted by ANNED
The US has some of the best mine sweeping ships and equipment in the world.

I surely hope so. Apparently some of the sailors are not terribly happy with the current Avenger-class ships. See comments in Navy Times here. The newest MCM-14 was commissioned in 1990, so the fleet is about 25 years old. They're also slow, so the Navy decided to send them over to Bahrain on a heavy lift ship out of concerns for wear and tear of a long sea voyage (which tends to confirm the issue.)

I have heard "concerns" (otherwise known as bitching) that the AN/SLQ-48 disposal system is outmoded and unreliable and THAT is the reason why the submersibles were sent out, to augment, i.e.: "cover for", the SLQ-48s.. Part of the issue appears to be that the MCM mission was to be taken over by the newer littoral combat ships, but we have only two of those which have gone way over budget, and their future is in doubt. Meanwhile, we have only 14 MCMs and now 8 of them are in Bahrain.

This also shows you how headlines can be sensational. When the deployment was first announced the headlines read: "US to DOUBLE minesweeper presence in the Gulf!" That gives you the impression of a "big buildup" and is part of what causes the WW III frenzy. What does that mean, exactly? Are we going from 100 ships to 200? That WOULD be a "big buldup." Actually, we're going from 4 to 8. That's double all right, but hardly constitutes a "big buildup." It is effectively (and literally) one shipment.

I absolutely agree that two can play at that game and from a military perspective, the Iranians are out-classed at every point. Ironic that when I was working for NAVSEA, one of the largest programs, aside from Trident, was the Iranian Naval Upgrade Program. We built their Navy for them. In any case, as you well know from your own service, sensationalistic headlines and public perception can be more important than military reality. All you have to do is have CNN report that the sky is falling and the DOW will drop several hundred points. It's insane rhetoric that has nothing to do with what is actually happening.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by TruthMaster2You
Oh no! Not subs now? Crying here now.

Not worth crying about. These are submersibles, about 4 feet long and weigh 100 pounds. They can be dropped by helicopter. They have an explosive charge on them. Their sole purpose is to blow up mines. Unlike the mines, they aren't designed to kill people.

There may be real subs there, too. The Iranians have several small ones, but the average depth of the Persian Gulf is 160 feet, so your average Fast Attack submarine is going to have a hard time hiding out there. I can't find a height spec, but its draft is over 30 feet, so add the height of the sail and the rest of the hull and you're probably looking at about 100 feet.

GREAT. Maybe Obama can inadvertantly hand over to the Iranians one of these top secret vehicles, as well.
They really seem to love the new stealth drone....almost as much as the Pakistanis and Chinese are enjoying our new stealth helecopter technology.

reply to post by IAMTAT

Yes good point, we are broke, pack up all that expensive war stuff and come home. We don't want to be part of it anymore, I speak for the majority, and according to the rules, democracy is run by the majority, Now pack it up or sell it. That is an order from your boss, the American people, ignore it, and you will be kicked out of the country.

reply to post by schuyler

The US has also installed weaponry designed to counter a "swarm attack" of small inflatables against the larger ships in the US fleet. There have been a lot of changes since the attack on the USS Cole. It could get very ugly if Iran tried to close the strait. It's not a slam dunk for either side.

Why we didn't do that years ago is beyond me, common sense would tell you if they are willing to strap on bomb jackets and bomb belts make suicide dives at innocent crowds of people, they would have no compunction against doing it against warships. If you underestimate your enemy, thats when you get your teeth kicked in.